Max(?) DPS S&B Threat Tank - Finally

[Ngha]

Finally, S&B has a place besides Intimitanking! I'm posting this mainly because my other threat about this topic has basically died, aka noone looks at it anymore even when a new post is added. However, I have refined the build to where it finally surpasses THF WF for threat generated and therefore now deserves its own place among the titanic builds(Excuse the ego, I feel like I actually did something).



Maths:

GS THF: (15.5[[GSGS]]+14[[min/lit II]]+10[[PA]]+(25[[conservative Str bonus]]*1.5[[THF str bonus]])+7[[vicious]] = 84 = 420 against 100% fort for one full attack chain (simply weapon damage no modifiers)

S&B: (8.5[[+5TS]]+3.5[[spikes]]+3.5[[bashing]]+5[[PA]]+25[[conservative str bonus]]+7[[vicious]]) = 52.5
-----14[[GSBS]]+14[[min/lit II]+5[[PA]]+25[[conservative str bonus]]+7[[vicious]] = 65 = 325 + 52.5[[shield procing once a chain]] = 377.5 (100% fort)

+ ~20% threat items

546 VS 453

546 + 25% WF, 682 THF

453 +25% HOrc, 566.25 +25% SD1, 707.81 S&B

682 VS 707.81 = S&B FTW.



Build:

Character Plan by DDO Character Planner Version 3.9.1 
DDO Character Planner Home Page  

Level 20 Neutral Good Half-Orc Male 
(8 Fighter / 12 Barbarian) 
Hit Points: 446 
Spell Points: 0 

BAB: 20/20/25/3030 
Fortitude: 20 
Reflex: 6 
Will: 6 

              Starting    Feat/Enhancement 
Abilities    Base Stats    Modified Stats 
(32 Point)    (Level 1)      (Level 20) 
Strength           20                30 
Dexterity           8                10 
Constitution       18                22 
Intelligence        6                 8 
Wisdom              8                10 
Charisma            6                 8 

Tomes Used 
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7 
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7 
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7 
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7 
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7 
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7 
 
              Starting      Feat/Enhancement 
             Base Skills  Modified Skills 
Skills       (Level 1)      (Level 20) 
Balance            -1             0 
Bluff              -2             -1 
Concentration      4              6 
Diplomacy          -2             -1 
Disable Device     n/a            n/a 
Haggle             -2             -1 
Heal               -1             0 
Hide               -1             0 
Intimidate         2              26 
Jump               5              12 
Listen             -1             0 
Move Silently      -1             0 
Open Lock          n/a            n/a 
Perform            n/a            n/a 
Repair             -2             -1 
Search             -2             -1 
Spot               -1             0 
Swim               5              10 
Tumble             1              10 
Use Magic Device   n/a            n/a 
 
Level 1 (Barbarian) 
Feat: (Selected) Toughness 
 
Level 2 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting 
 
Level 3 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword 
Feat: (Selected) Power Attack 
 
Level 4 (Barbarian) 
 
Level 5 (Barbarian) 
 
Level 6 (Barbarian) 
Feat: (Selected) Cleave 
 
Level 7 (Barbarian) 
 
Level 8 (Barbarian) 
 
Level 9 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash 
 
Level 10 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Shield Mastery 
 
Level 11 (Fighter) 
 
Level 12 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Mastery 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting 
 
Level 13 (Barbarian) 
 
Level 14 (Barbarian) 
 
Level 15 (Barbarian) 
Feat: (Selected) Greater Two Handed Fighting 
 
Level 16 (Barbarian) 
 
Level 17 (Barbarian) 
 
Level 18 (Barbarian) 
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons 
 
Level 19 (Fighter) 
 
Level 20 (Fighter) 
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Bludgeoning Weapons 
Enhancement: Fighter Armor Class Boost I 
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost I 
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Booost II 
Enhancement: Barbarian Damage Boost III 
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I 
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II 
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III 
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage I 
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage II 
Enhancement: Barbarian Extend Rage III 
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage I 
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage II 
Enhancement: Barbarian Extra Rage III 
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack I 
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Attack II 
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage I 
Enhancement: Barbarian Power Rage II 
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker I 
Enhancement: Barbarian Frenzied Berserker II 
Enhancement: Fighter Stalwart Defender I 
Enhancement: Orcish Brute Fighting I 
Enhancement: Orcish Brute Fighting II 
Enhancement: Orcish Brute Fighting III 
Enhancement: Orcish Brute Fighting IV 
Enhancement: Orcish Strength I 
Enhancement: Orcish Strength II 
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I 
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II 
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I 
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II 
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution I 
Enhancement: Barbarian Constitution II 
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I 
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness I 
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness II 
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness III 
Enhancement: Barbarian Toughness IV

Nice right? My math may be off so feel free to correct me, Haste boosts will be used for boss fights, thought about switching IC: Bludgeoning for quick draw to reduce Haste Boost activation time.



/FlameOn?

[stupid123]

I'll believe it once I see it tank horoth or something.

[DragonTroy]

and how would this stack up against, say, TWF? since you are planning on tanking, its vital to compare against what has been calculated to be the best dps

[Ngha]

and how would this stack up against, say, TWF? since you are planning on tanking, its vital to compare against what has been calculated to be the best dps

Well lets see using tempest 2 and frenzied 1:

(10.5[[GSKH]]+14[[min/lit 2]]+5[[PA]]+25[[conservative str bonus]]+7[[vicious]])*2[[Offhand]] = 123 = 615 for whole attack chain against 100%fort, using khopeshes

615 + 25% threat gear

768 single target damage, but if we're going to compare single target hitters versus glancing blow hitters we have to factor that in.

So, My build outperforms THFs in both groups and boss fights.

However it could probably keep aggro on trash but against a lone boss, TWF still wins unfortunately. Theres just no way around it unless somehow TWF work for improved shield bashing which I haven't been able to test yet.

[kernal42]

You compare your tanking build to a 12/8 dps build, which is a bad dps build. Using the numbers and gear in your calculation, you're producing 191 dps. With 25% racial hate amp and 20% from gear (as in your numbers), you're looking at about 275 threat per second.

That will not hold aggro.

-Kernal

See:

Some Numbers.

[Ngha]

snip~

[stupid123]

Ya I never seen any viable s&b tanking builds at endgame after intim nerf.

[Bilger]

Ya I never seen any viable s&b tanking builds at endgame after intim nerf.

I have and have one that holds up to all but a barb with alot of hate gear on.

[stupid123]

I have and have one that holds up to all but a barb with alot of hate gear on.

Well if only I could see it in action

[Bilger]

The feats look good for a S&B tank but the problem I see is you won't be much better than a barb using a GA and tanking.

You may take slightly less damage with shield mastery feats but lower HP, no ac, and saves hurt.

You will need all the threat you can get max intim as best you can and with shield hate gen intim and right gear should be able to hold aggro with a good headstart.

Gear in the end will be the teller here. Will want any gear that can give hate generation if want to hold it from claw set maybe a full incite dt armor anything helps. There's other sources just a couple of options.

Will be a grind to make it work but is possible to do.

Well if only I could see it in action

Instead of doubting what you can't see maybe give advice other than never seen it so don't exist.

I can close eyes to but it will still be there when open them.

[Dragaer]

Well if only I could see it in action

Are you on Thelanis Stupid? I know quite a few.

[stupid123]

Are you on Thelanis Stupid? I know quite a few.

Nope sarlona

[Viisari]

Are you on Thelanis Stupid? I know quite a few.

Funny how I've never seen any then.

And even if we ignore all this, most raid bosses aren't dangerous because of their melee attacks, it's the spells they use that will mess your day. Yes dr and %-based damage reduction are nice against horoth when he hits you in melee which he does a lot, but that won't save you from dots, followed by a dbf/meteor swarm and disintigrate.

I know some toons on Thelanis that do sick melee dps, and they would grab aggro from a build like this in a blink of an eye unless they wait for the boss to be at 90% hp or more, which means lots of damage has been wasted due to them having to wait for you to have your aggro. S&B simply cannot compete in the damage department which directly means they'll need much much more hate generation, and even with then it's unlikely to be enough against blitz builds, paladins or highly geared barbs.

So all in all, yeah, you *might* be able to hold aggro in raids if you're given lots of time to grab the aggro, when any good dps with some hate gear and hp could've done the same job and receive minimally more damage, but at the same time much less time for aggro building would've been needed and the tank would've actually been contributing some serious DPS to the raid too, instead of just some serious hate generation.

[MrWizard]

Well if only I could see it in action

video available here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0KKsb5mvD0

[Viisari]

video available here

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=n0KKsb5mvD0

It seems to me that people are waiting for a long while before coming hit him, and I know several toons who couldn't even come hit him until after suulo because they'd grab aggro. One blitz I know for example hits for ~90dmg with his main hand on normal hits when raid buffed. That's almost as much as you crit with your sword. You're going to need 200% hate just to match his main hand on his normal hits, now add in offhand with haste boost and you're not going to keep aggro even if you spam intim all the time.

So in conclusion, that raid had no highly geared melees or if there were any, they were not hitting Horoth.

[kernal42]

I have and have one that holds up to all but a barb with alot of hate gear on.

Why do people always assume that barbs have the best dps? They really don't.

(Sorry Shade).

-Kernal

[Bilger]

Why do people always assume that barbs have the best dps? They really don't.

(Sorry Shade).

-Kernal

Yes rogues and others can out dps barbs in right conditions. Noone said they are best it was a example not a assumption!!

[Ngha]

Yes rogues and others can out dps barbs in right conditions. Noone said they are best it was a example not a assumption!!

100% fortfication mobs or go home.

[MrWizard]

Ya I never seen any viable s&b tanking builds at endgame after intim nerf.

works fine for me...

[Ngha]

If Turbine ever accepts my VIP payment I'll roll it up to level 20 within the month.