Toughened Fighter

[Jdavet90]

I was wondering how much it would effect a human pure fighter char to use all general feats for toughness. The result is that you are still able to get all the must have feats with the fighter only feat choices, and you end up with about 600 base hp. The only thing that should probably be changed is the 5 level up points were spent in con instead of str. The reasoning being that str is so much easier to boost, I could afford to lose 5 points in it in order to gain up to 66 more hp. I am just looking for feedback on this build and if there are any MUST HAVE feats that I am missing.

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Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Fighter) 
Hit Points: 606
Spell Points: 0 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 19
Reflex: 5
Will: 5

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(32 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    22
Dexterity             8                     8
Constitution         18                    24
Intelligence          8                     8
Wisdom                8                     8
Charisma              8                     8

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    10
Bluff                -1                     2
Concentration         4                    10
Diplomacy            -1                     2
Disable Device       n/a                   n/a
Haggle               -1                    -1
Heal                 -1                    -1
Hide                 -1                    -1
Intimidate            3                    25
Jump                  4                     7
Listen               -1                    -1
Move Silently        -1                    -1
Open Lock            n/a                   n/a
Perform              n/a                   n/a
Repair               -1                    -1
Search               -1                    -1
Spot                 -1                    -1
Swim                  4                     6
Tumble               n/a                   n/a
Use Magic Device     n/a                   n/a

Level 1 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost I
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness I


Level 2 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery I
Enhancement: Fighter Strength I


Level 3 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I


Level 4 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost II
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy II
Enhancement: Fighter Item Defense I


Level 5 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Human Adaptability Strength I
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness II


Level 6 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Two Handed Fighting
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei I


Level 7 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost III
Enhancement: Kensei Falchion Mastery I


Level 8 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Critical Accuracy III
Enhancement: Fighter Falchion Specialization I


Level 9 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Attack Boost III


Level 10 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Racial Toughness II


Level 11 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Strength II


Level 12 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Weapon Specialization: Slashing Weapons
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei II
Enhancement: Human Improved Recovery II


Level 13 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Kensei Falchion Mastery II
Enhancement: Human Greater Adaptability Constitution I


Level 14 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Greater Two Handed Fighting
Enhancement: Fighter Haste Boost IV


Level 15 (Fighter)
Feat: (Selected) Toughness


Level 16 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Superior Weapon Focus: Slashing Weapons
Enhancement: Fighter Strength III


Level 17 (Fighter)


Level 18 (Fighter)
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Power Attack
Feat: (Selected) Toughness
Enhancement: Fighter Kensei III
Enhancement: Racial Toughness III
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness III


Level 19 (Fighter)
Enhancement: Fighter Falchion Specialization II
Enhancement: Fighter Toughness IV


Level 20 (Fighter)
Ability Raise: CON
Feat: (Fighter Bonus) Stunning Blow
Enhancement: Fighter Weapon Alacrity
Enhancement: Kensei Falchion Mastery III
Enhancement: Fighter Strategy (Stunning Blow) I

[Srozbun]

What would be the point of using all your feats on toughness? Is this just a thought experiment on how much HP a potential fighter can get or are you actually considering building this?

[Jdavet90]

I am considering building this char. I'm just wondering, what feats would be worth taking (instead of toughness) since i already have all the THF and slashing feats with just the fighter only feats, even with those, i have 2 extra feats. 606 base hp (would be around 550 ish if the level ups were in str) is not too bad, and I don't see anything other must have feats missing, though I will admit, I am not the most knowledgeable player.

[dkyle]

There's not really anything wrong with the feat choices; fighter have more feats than they know what to do with, and taking a bunch of toughnesses is not uncommon. Even taking those 8 toughnesses, you still have every DPS feat, plus the most useful combat trick.

Your order is a bit strange. No Power Attack until level 18?

As for the stats, levelups in CON is excessive. Put them in STR.

[Jdavet90]

The level ups in con and power attack are the only things that are truly wrong IMO. I could bump the THF feats to 1 feat further to grab power attack sooner (power attack at 2, then take the thf feats in the same order they are in now)

[Srozbun]

There are lots of things you could consider taking instead of toughness.

1. Quickdraw. You rely on boosts a lot. This will increase your DPS.
2. Stunning blow. For 50% additional damage and crowd control.
3. Sap. Some people on these forums swear by it. I've never used it personally.
4. Potentially improved trip/stunning blow.

[Jdavet90]

There are lots of things you could consider taking instead of toughness.

1. Quickdraw. You rely on boosts a lot. This will increase your DPS.
2. Stunning blow. For 50% additional damage and crowd control.
3. Sap. Some people on these forums swear by it. I've never used it personally.
4. Potentially improved trip/stunning blow.

Stunning blow I have, quickdraw could be swapped for a toughness, would only lose 25 hp. Sap...meh, cant get improved trip (need 13 int and combat expertise) and is there an improved stunning blow feat?

[JollySwagMan]

There are lots of things you could consider taking instead of toughness.

1. Quickdraw. You rely on boosts a lot. This will increase your DPS.
2. Stunning blow. For 50% additional damage and crowd control.
3. Sap. Some people on these forums swear by it. I've never used it personally.
4. Potentially improved trip/stunning blow.

1. Yes, definitely Quickdraw, especially on a Human.
2. Stunning Blow is on there at level 20. (I would recommend around level 10-12, as this is when you can start finding +10 stunners.)
3. Sap is very neat and there is room for it. Most notable use is in isolating an Orange-named 'miniboss' monster, then clearing out the trash while they're Sapped. Also the fact that it have no save may be of interest in Epics.
4. Improved Trip requires Combat Expertise, which in turn requires 13 Int. Which is a nice number for a Rogue-splashed fighter to max out UMD with, but the OP hasn't mentioned anything about improving self sufficiency/building in Evasion. There isn't an Improved Stunning Blow feat in DDO, alas.

[Riksha]

all my lvl points went into str with a base 18 con
with sup false life and all the other goodies i have 801 hp standing mid 900s really buffed
but i do have quickdraw instead of stunning blow lol....made for boss tanking so faster boosts are better against boss
mobs have imp stunning blow but not pc

[Jdavet90]

And do you only have 1 toughness? This build properly buffed and gear would prolly reach into 1100+ hp or something I'm guessing. (I wouldn't know, I haven't gotten past lv 10 yet hah)

[Riksha]

And do you only have 1 toughness? This build properly buffed and gear would prolly reach into 1100+ hp or something I'm guessing. (I wouldn't know, I haven't gotten past lv 10 yet hah)

with a scourge choker you might hit 1000 possibly more if u put lvl up into con but i dont see that doing any favors for your dps
my character has 8 toughness and is almost the exact build besides me putting points into str and not con at lvl ups.
801 standing +20 rage + 80 double madstone +40 yugloth+20 ship buff = 961 you possibly can hit 1021 with lvl ups in con
my character has superior false life and +4 con tome so im missing 60 hp from your build but do better dps

[Jdavet90]

Well if and when I make this char, the level ups will go into str and not con. Other than that, there isn't much else I can change to up the dps save swap out 1 toughness for quick draw.

[Trillea]

Well if and when I make this char, the level ups will go into str and not con. Other than that, there isn't much else I can change to up the dps save swap out 1 toughness for quick draw.

Quick draw is highly recommended.

[Riksha]

i have a human but there was no horcs at the time
a 7 toughness horc with 18 con and str will prolly be alot better dps wise and u will only miss one toughness feat
quickdraw is not gonna be a build breaker by the way its just the way i did it i could easily go stunning blow instead

[Ngha]

wait. quickdraw reduces the time it takes to action boost?

[Tsuarok]

wait. quickdraw reduces the time it takes to action boost?

yes, although it is not a listed effect

[t0r012]

you lose a toughness but I'd go WF and start with 20 con so its just about a wash. levelups into str.
all the extra WF goodies would benefit the tanking IMO and the THF bonuses would be nice.

barring that I'd go dwarf.

[Jdavet90]

Speaking of tanking, anybody have a max dex bonus in heavy armor focused dwarf fighter? A char than can utiliize the +11 dex bonus possible in full plate with the right enhancements/gear while still having a decent amount of dps. Looking for a fighter that has a useful amount of ac and can still contribute damage wise while remaining pure fighter.

[Kinerd]

Having lots of HP without really compromising DPS is good. I concur that level-ups should go into Strength, though. I would also recommend dropping two of your third-tier Toughness enhancements in favor of the third rank of healing amp, but it's not critical.

Looking for a fighter that has a useful amount of ac and can still contribute damage wise while remaining pure fighter.

I'm afraid you will be looking for a long, long, long time.

We can compute numerically how much of a DPS increase Quickdraw is for a THF fighter. Without Quickdraw the activation lull is 1.2 seconds, with it it is 0.6 seconds. If we assume the fighter expects Haste, then:

(19.4 * 124.1 + 10 * 99.1) / (18.8 * 124.1 + 10 * 99.1) = 2.24% for slow THF,
(19.4 * 126.7 + 10 * 99.9) / (18.8 * 126.7 + 10 * 99.9) = 2.25% for fast THF,
(19.4 * 154.2 + 10 * 119.5) / (18.8 * 154.2 + 10 * 119.5) = 2.25% for slow THF twitch, and
(19.4 * 156.6 + 10 * 118.5) / (18.8 * 156.6 + 10 * 118.5) = 2.28% for fast THF twitch.

Good thing I did it for each THF type, the differences are so huge, lol.

[Balkas]

We can compute numerically how much of a DPS increase Quickdraw is for a THF fighter. Without Quickdraw the activation lull is 1.2 seconds, with it it is 0.6 seconds. If we assume the fighter expects Haste, then:

(19.4 * 124.1 + 10 * 99.1) / (18.8 * 124.1 + 10 * 99.1) = 2.24% for slow THF,
(19.4 * 126.7 + 10 * 99.9) / (18.8 * 126.7 + 10 * 99.9) = 2.25% for fast THF,
(19.4 * 154.2 + 10 * 119.5) / (18.8 * 154.2 + 10 * 119.5) = 2.25% for slow THF twitch, and
(19.4 * 156.6 + 10 * 118.5) / (18.8 * 156.6 + 10 * 118.5) = 2.28% for fast THF twitch.

Good thing I did it for each THF type, the differences are so huge, lol.

I'll take the Toughness feat.