paladin 6/fighter 12 threat ac tank. now what?

[psteen1]

So my plan has always been to make a paladin 6/fighter 14 sword and board threat generating heavy-armor AC tank, but it seems like those last two fighter levels could be put somewhere else more effectively. The standard thing to do from what I've seen is to take 2 levels of monk for evasion and wisdom bonuses to AC. But if you want that to work, you really need to just wear pajamas and have a huge dexterity.

That ship has sailed for me since I only put a 10 dex on this toon (to get a few AC points when I get a +6 dex item).

So, what are the extra 2 levels I should pick???

[Krago]

Rogue

Get evasion and UMD. Better synergy for having higher CHA.

[psteen1]

will evasion do anything when I am wearing heavy armor?

[Krago]

No, you need light armor for evasion.

EDIT: There isnt much utility you can gain from a class with only 2 levels if you want to keep wearing heavy armor. The best I can see is possibly cleric from some self healing of wands but could even be better served with adding 2 more lvls of pally.

[whomhead]

Generally speaking you should have multi-class characters planned out from the beginning, lest you run into exactly the sort of dilemmas that you've got right now. Probably at this point your best bet would be to splash two levels of ranger. You'll get Ram's might and a favored enemy (for a tank you'll probably want Evil Outsider).

Monk is a fine choice as well - your reflex save will be a few points lower than is ideal, but will still be helpful. The bigger issue with monk is the light armor thing.

[psteen1]

Good advice, thanks. Yeah, I thought this was planned out. It is a TR and everything, so I mostly know what I am doing, but . But I did overlook this aspect; just came to realize that 14 levels of fighter wasn't really netting me much over 12 levels of fighter.

I like the ranger idea. I'm going to be knight of the chalice so taking favored enemy will further that aspect.

Unless a defender of siberys is the way to go? I'm already going to take stalwart defender, and didn't feel like the defender of siberys was adding very much to that.

[Munkenmo]

2 levels of ranger is not enough to cast ranger spells so you won't get rams might.


it's outside the box, but if you solo often

bard
level 1 spells
3 inspire courages
umd

[psteen1]

it's outside the box, but if you solo often

bard
level 1 spells
3 inspire courages
umd

Not a bad idea, but those blasted bards can't be lawful. Grrr...

[whomhead]

Good advice, thanks. Yeah, I thought this was planned out. It is a TR and everything, so I mostly know what I am doing, but . But I did overlook this aspect; just came to realize that 14 levels of fighter wasn't really netting me much over 12 levels of fighter.

I like the ranger idea. I'm going to be knight of the chalice so taking favored enemy will further that aspect.

Unless a defender of siberys is the way to go? I'm already going to take stalwart defender, and didn't feel like the defender of siberys was adding very much to that.

Ftd is right about the spells with ranger, so that means no ram's might. I just realized that you would get TWF for free that way, so if you took the ranger levels early enough (i.e. somewhere before levels 9-12 where you will likely take the rest of the TWF chain) then you could net a free feat out of the deal.

As you say, favored enemy + KotC should be quite nice. However, on a fighter/paladin split I'd go with one DPS prestige and one defense prestige. Kensei is probably the better DPS prestige since it gets you power surge and some other goodies that are specific to the weapon instead of to one type of enemy. DoS would then be my choice for the defensive prestige. These are probably minor differences all in all, but worth thinking through while there's still time.

[psteen1]

Kensi II would be a better path to follow. I've already run a couple of characters down that path, however. I'm running the stalwart defender just to mix things up for myself. But after/if I get sick of it or realize that I am being ineffective, a feat swap and a enhancement swap would allow me to go that way. In any case, thanks for the tips! Going ranger didn't occur to me but it does seem like the best option.

[Srozbun]

I just posted my dual khopesh wielding AC hate tank build here: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=326756

If you scroll down to post 3, it posts the stats/gear of the 12 fighter/6 paladin/2 monk split, which I think you were asking about here.

[Feithlin]

IMO the best 2 levels splash you could take are either Monk or Rogue.

Monk gives you better saves (+3/3/3), 2 extra feats (those can be toughness, in which case you end up gaining more HP than by going fighter 14). Plus you get a bit more AC when not wearing armor/shield.
Rogue gives you UMD and pick locks. On my Fighter 18 / Rogue 2, I really liked having enough UMD to scroll heal or various buffs. You could reach 39 UMD without 23 ranks, but that requires a lot more grinding.

Both share evasion. Sure, you can't evade with a full plate, but you will not always have one. It's sometimes better to get less AC but the possibility to prevent damage from meteor swarms. In some quests, you mainly face big fat hitters, in which case AC is the best, while in some others, you will face a bunch of nasty spellcasters.
The same applies to shield: you won't use it when not tanking, and those situations, the monk splash will help maintaining a useful AC.
The most important thing I learned from leveling my tank is the necessity to adapt to content. It's true for any character, but even more on a character whose effectiveness relies a lot on gear.
The equation changes on a TR because you will already have gathered all your important gear from your previous life. With some builds, relying heavily on gear, you could keep a high AC, a high dps configuration and evasion all at once (like Srozbun's build above).

The good point of Fighter 12/Paladin 6/Whatever 2 is that it's easier to get a high threat generation. In the long term, Fighter 18/Rogue or Monk 2 are more effective, but this could be for a 2nd life. I made a tank for the poor build, if you want to take a look: Shield for hire. It's not the best, but can get the job done without requiring a lot of gear.

As Whomhead said, you should have planed your multiclassing before leveling the character, not after. And it's even more true on a tank who is very tight on everything: attributes, feats, gear. Not meeting the requirements simply means a painful failure. However, with a simple LR, things could be resolved. In this case, you'd better go Kensei II/KotC I until you get your gear, then LR.

*Edit: Just saw you're a TR, but what did you have in mind when preparing your 2nd life: Evasion mode, S&B tanking, pure hate tanking?

*Edit: Note: you can't take both SD II and DoS I, they are mutually exclusive in term of enhancements.

[unbongwah]

Unless a defender of siberys is the way to go? I'm already going to take stalwart defender, and didn't feel like the defender of siberys was adding very much to that.

Moot point: you can't take both SD & DoS as both require their class AC Boosts.

Have you already TRed? If not, I would still do rogue or monk 2; the former for UMD, the latter for the two feats. If you have...hrm, not sure what to suggest.

[Krago]

My vote is for UMD. Nothing more frustrating than pulling that nice loot item that you cant use because of RR restrictions.

Granted you can get your crafting level up to make such a nice weapon but it should would be nice to use that Greater Bane weapon now.

Assuming an Int score of 12

2 Levels of Rogue nets 9 skill points (10 if human)
2 for Intimidate (Assuming you kept this at max)
16 to UMD

16 skill
5 from CHA (14 Base +6 Item)
21 Total

4 GH
3 Exceptional CHA Skills (GS Item or DT armor)
28 (Golden number to use any weapon with UMD requirement)

[tkneip1874]

being that you only have a 10 dex that rules out twf line. im assuming that your int is low so insightful reflexes is out. if your intrested in ac might want to try 12 ftr/7 pal/1 rog. this gives you ac to your aura and rog to max out umd.

[psteen1]

thanks again to everyone for the good ideas. The point of this go around was to play with the new auto-shield bashing, dwarven axes throwing glancing blows, and better shield damage mitigation. So, that would make me a pure S&B (and I can pull out the great axe or maul when the situation calls for it). These are new features weren't available during my first life as a S&B fighter, and I spent most of my time frustrated that S&B was so ineffective at everything. I was also running a barbarian/fighter, and didn't really know what I was doing.

This life is going along far more swimmingly. The autoprocs on shield bashing are really nice, as is wielding a dwarven axe that gives glancing blows and taking two-handed feats. I am currently at level 11 and getting to the point where keeping up AC is becoming quite hard... just too much of a tradeoff with other things. I still really like the flavor of carrying a shield though. With crafting I put seeker and stunning on a tower shield, so I am using that shield not for AC, but for damage mitigation and then for its enhancements which boost my DPS. So I'll remain a tank but it is going to have to be a threat tank, not an AC tank. Perhaps this is not optimal for a heavy armored S&B, but the build itself is a lot of fun to play, and that remains the most important thing for me.

I still torn between 2 levels of ranger or 2 levels of monk. Feithlin makes some really good arguments.

[Krago]

Using two weapons offers
-6 Main Hand
-8 Off hand

TWF gives
+2 to both
-4 Main Hand
-6 Off hand

If you use a non-light weapon in your offhand you incur another -2 penalty. Just something to think about if going Ranger for the free feat of TWF.