Two Toughness feats on 1st life human rogue

[Miahoo]

My current feats are:
1: Toughness, Khopesh Prof.
3: TWF
6: OTWF
9: Power Attack
12: IC:Slash
15: ITWF
18: GTWF

I'm thinking of changing the OTWF for another Toughness feat.
- Pros: 23 more HP very welcome on a rogue
- Cons: 2 to-hit for a 15BAB build might be critical

What do you guys think?

[maha0201]

id take
6: pa
9: itwf
12: ics
15: gtwf
18: toughness/otwf/sf: umd/precision

umd - 3 to umd
touhness - +22 hp
otwf - +2 to hit but you should be able to hit on non hevy fort mobs either way
precision - -25% on enemy fort for 1/2 of dmg and +4 to hit so you lose 25-40 dmg and gain 25% chance + oportunist % to SA...

[Feithlin]

precision - -25% on enemy fort for 1/2 of dmg and +4 to hit so you lose 25-40 dmg and gain 25% chance + oportunist % to SA...

Precision also reduces SA damage.

For your to hit, you have other ways to improve it. In additional to the conventional bonuses (weapon enhancement bonus, enhancement bonus to hit like the Battle skill bonuses in cannith craft, morale bonuses from GH, etc.), you can use Divine power to get 20 BAB, so a net +5. Also remember that your to hit is much better when sneak attacking (Rogue SA accuracy IV, SA item) for up to +9 (and more with a halfling). Overall, you shouldn't have much issues, and in the uncommon situation you will, just switch to Destruction & Imp. destruction weapons every minute for a net +8.

In addition to a 2nd Toughness, SF: UMD or oTWF, there is also the alternative of Quick draw (reduced activation time for your haste boosts). When TRing, ppl often take PL: SoS.

[Miahoo]

umd - 3 to umd
touhness - +22 hp
otwf - +2 to hit but you should be able to hit on non hevy fort mobs either way
precision - -25% on enemy fort for 1/2 of dmg and +4 to hit so you lose 25-40 dmg and gain 25% chance + oportunist % to SA...

+3 UMD - I dont need, waste of a feat
Toughness/OTWF - That what this post is all about
Precision - As said above, VERY bad feat imo

[Kmnh]

get quick draw to activate your boosts faster, or hamstring to slow mobs down, or sap to cc annoying casters

[Spoprockel]

You could go with the toughness until you get a GS T3 hp item, and then swap it out with your free respec to whatever you need.
(OTWF if you have trouble with your to hit -> DP scrolls / SF: UMD if you can't reach the magic 39 / Quick Draw for better boost use -> quite useful for Horcs).


On my Halfling rogues first life i did fine with only 1 toughness, i was sitting at around 410 hp totally unbuffed,
and the only time that was a problem was in epic wiz king, when he kept spamming horrid wilthing followed by disintegrate.

But then again, who takes a first life dex based 28pt pure rogue build into epic wiz king?

[Miahoo]

Well, I'm on 447 HP with guild buffs (+2 CON), but I want mmmoooaaarrr
Quick Drow can be nice.

[Emizand]

+3 UMD - I dont need, waste of a feat

No fail heal scrolls is no waste! If you are stuck between ostwf and toughness though I would suggest a second toughness ferat is a luxury no rogue can afford.

So in short skill focus umd, but its your build enjoy.

[Miahoo]

No fail heal scrolls is no waste! If you are stuck between ostwf and toughness though I would suggest a second toughness ferat is a luxury no rogue can afford.

So in short skill focus umd, but its your build enjoy.

I'm already on the non-fail heal scrolls.

[Ehllie]

quick draw or oversized if to-hit is still average

[Dendrix]

I wouldn't drop otwf. It's not just the BAB of 15, it's all the other stuff that the tankers get to boost their to hits as well and them having greater strength.

your BAB takes -7 to hit from 2wf khopeshes with power attack and otwf.
Removing otwf means you have -9 to hit.

IMO if you want Power Attack then you need OTWF. Keep both or ditch both.

[Emizand]

Just putting this out there as a thought. Weapon prof Kukri. That could be your offhand rad2, leaving your pesh to be whatever flavour you want. May not be as much dps, but will look so much better.

[karl_k0ch]

You should find out the following: Do you really hit on a 2+ with PA switched in the typical situation you find your rogue in?

If yes, I'd consider Quickdraw to enhance your DPS, as it reduces the time of the Action Boost Animations, i.e. less time spent animating = more time spent hitting stuff. If no, keep OTWF. Being able to switch PA on and not miss is invaluable.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

Well, I'm on 447 HP with guild buffs (+2 CON), but I want mmmoooaaarrr
Quick Drow can be nice.

Hey, 447 is exactly my 20 Rogue's present unbuffed hp. How weird is that??

I started with 16 base CON because I did NOT want to take multiple Toughnesses. Generally, I try not to do that on Rogue builds. If you do it, you risk losing dps or utility, but for some a little more hp is worth it.

[destiny4405]

if i started with 16 con, my rogue would now have 497 hp unbuffed. maybe it's time to LR to get that one con

hp is nice, but i got this hp with one toughness, so i dont think you need more.

[Kinerd]

If you want more, get more. -2 to-hit isn't going to cripple you.

[Miahoo]

Hey, 447 is exactly my 20 Rogue's present unbuffed hp. How weird is that??

I started with 16 base CON because I did NOT want to take multiple Toughnesses. Generally, I try not to do that on Rogue builds. If you do it, you risk losing dps or utility, but for some a little more hp is worth it.

Yep. I started with 14. So we kinda even

[svinja]

Seems to me that +2 to hit is clearly much more valuable for you than another toughness.

[Rydin_Dirtay]

- Cons: 2 to-hit for a 15BAB build might be critical

What do you guys think?

You know miahoo as I think more about this...I think it depends on how geared out you are. -2 to hit will not matter as much if you are running 40+ STR, using DP clickies, GH, etc. But if you are running in the 30-32 STR range it will matter more.

I don't know. Do you feel squishy at 447? Get Exceptional CON on an Oremi's. Or even go a step further and get Abishai. Madstoned and Yugo'ed you'll surpass 550