Greensteel - no thanks?

[tekkentroop]

Forgive me the controversial title, I mostly want to talk about GS weapons here.

I have been playing for about half a year now and dont have that much gametime, so I dont have a lot of larges to make double-shard greensteel. But with cannith crafting, I somehow feel that the necessity of having greensteel weapons has declined. Of course, green steel accessories with their stacking hp and sp are still top-notch and Ill try to make them for any higher level char, but at the moment, if somebody is low on larges, I think its smarter not to make any double-shard weapons (and single shard weapons arent really worth it except maybe triple pos) and spend all larges on accessories. I wonder if its even worth making the blanks..

The reasons:
-Its easy to reach useful levels in cannith crafting (35-40) and powergamers have already hit the cap and can craft greater banes
-holy banes are cheap to craft (about 25-30k plat for essences at going rates, also need some cheaper collectables)
-a silver weapon is the most expensive crafting ingredient, but still goes for less than a single large devil scale, far less if its not a khopesh

Do you still make dual-shard weapons? Do you think its still good to make two of them for every char? My bard certainly wont get any GS weapons in the near future...

[Dragavon]

Well, yes and no.

If you have a character with high enough crafting skill then yes, you can make weapons that are better than GS.

Getting that crafting skill requires a significant effort, and I think that for a player with limited playtime making GS weapons is easier than getting top crafted weapons.

And if you plan to TR, then nothing will ever beat taking GS weapons out of your reincarnation cache at lvl 12.

[lethargos]

I think crafting will eventually reduce amount of MinII's. I dont see it affecting other Gs crafting that much. You just cant make most of Gs effects in cannith crafting.

[Micron]

Not planning to replace any of my GS weapons with any crafted weapon anytime soon.

Love my min IIs. They're min level 12 (as already pointed out). I can smack just about anything in the game with them with good results and don't have to carry around an arsenal of stuff for every occasion. They're keen and allow some builds to save a feat. They give me Stoneskin.

Can you cannith craft a rad II, an essential dual shard weapon for rogues? An earth grab weapon? Can you put +2 stat or +4 AC on cannith crafted weapons?

In other words: GS - yes thanks. And yes, dual shard items are very much worth crafting.

[karnokvolrath]

This comes down to what you want, what you need, and what you want for "toys".

Would i ever make a min2 again? NO. I mostly play THF's anyway so the epic antique greataxe already did this for me, but now i wouldnt do it for any charicter build. For some they are still viable, they will basically become the "cheep version to break DR, i find that funny, but hey, it is what it is.

Lit2, yes...i <3 lightning strike.

I think you may start to see an increase in triple fire/triple water weapons now that ING are free from min2 greensteel.

OH look a mummy *breaks out new "toy"*

Fire Memphits? Got just the thing for them

[PrincessK]

I love both methods of crafting. Options are good.

[grodon9999]

Well, yes and no.

If you have a character with high enough crafting skill then yes, you can make weapons that are better than GS.

Getting that crafting skill requires a significant effort, and I think that for a player with limited playtime making GS weapons is easier than getting top crafted weapons.

And if you plan to TR, then nothing will ever beat taking GS weapons out of your reincarnation cache at lvl 12.

Being able to craft holy bane weapons takes a fraction of the time needed to grind the larges needed for a tier III, you can't even compare the two.

I dont' see much reason to craft Mineral IIs anymore, lightnings on the other hand . . .

[English_Warrior]

While cannith crafting does have the ability to produce some great items, it certainly isn't going to replace Greensteel.

1) You can't craft anything close to a Lit 2 or Rad II for trash killing.
2) Silver Holy of GEOB are great, but Min II are still going to be ahead on some elite difficulty bosses.
3) Cannith crafting is WAY more grindy than greensteel (especially after about level 50).
4) GS are always min level 11/12...good crafted items can have very high (often ridiculous) min levels.
5) You can't craft many top tier guards/exceptional stats/clickies with cannith crafting.

[dkyle]

2) Holy of GEOB are great, but Min II are still going to be ahead on some elite difficulty bosses.

Why would you make a Holy of GEOB when you could make a Holy Burst Silver of GEOB for very little extra cost, especially compared to the insane cost of the grind to level enough for GEOB?

That is much, much better than MinII vs. Devil bosses, no matter the difficulty (unless you will actually benefit from the Keen, of course).

MinII is very nice vs. the Demon Queen, but are you really going to make a whole dual-shard just to gain a little damage against her?

3) Cannith crafting is WAY more grindy than greensteel (especially after about level 50).

Yes, but you only need level 35 in Arcane and Divine to match or beat a MinII vs. Devil Bosses via a +4 Holy Silver of EOB. That is very easy to do, much easier than Shroud grinding for even a single shard GS. And the grind is once per account per server, not once per item.

4) GS are always min level 11/12...good crafted items can have very high (often ridiculous) min levels.

Yes, but a LitII equals or exceeds MinII in level 12 content. Not much cause for a Devil Boss beater until level 16 or so, and a +4 Holy Silver EOB is ML 15.

[Emizand]

if you plan to TR, then nothing will ever beat taking GS weapons out of your reincarnation cache at lvl 12.

This

[articwarrior]

Imo the only thing that may go away is min II because there are several types of metals and then you could put holy and GEOB on it (even if it is ML 20 (they're gonna fix that)) so... let's compare then

a +5 Holy Silver Greataxe of Greater Evil Outsider Bane*

to

Min II Greataxe (holy, acid, acid)

HSGEOB = 5+1d12+1d6+3d6+4 on average 29.5 damage

Min II = 5+3d6+1d6+1d6+(2d10*.1)+(2d10*.1)+1d4 on average 25.6 damage

*This does not include criticals

[Dragavon]

Being able to craft holy bane weapons takes a fraction of the time needed to grind the larges needed for a tier III, you can't even compare the two.

I dont' see much reason to craft Mineral IIs anymore, lightnings on the other hand . . .

That entirely depends. For a veteran player with many lvl 20's loaded with plat then yes, it is easy to buy essences/deconstructables and get a decent crafting skill.

But I dare say that for a new player working his way into high levels it will be easier to get ingreds for a min II than get high enough levels in crafting and obtaining a silver blank to make a crafted weapon that is better than a min II.

FYI, my main dualwields +5 holy burst silver greater bane khopeshes now

I still use the min II's and radiance peshes too

[Gkar]

My Lit II destroys most content starting at L12.

How many holy/GB weapons do you need to destroy the same variety of content?
What are their MLs?

Yes, end game vs devils a holy/GLOB is a nice toy that beats out a MinII, but a Min II and a LitII are utility weapons usable on pretty much any enemy from mid level right through endgame.

Also a RadII is and will always be the toy of choice for rogues.

[dkyle]

That entirely depends. For a veteran player with many lvl 20's loaded with plat then yes, it is easy to buy essences/deconstructables and get a decent crafting skill.

But I dare say that for a new player working his way into high levels it will be easier to get ingreds for a min II than get high enough levels in crafting and obtaining a silver blank to make a crafted weapon that is better than a min II.

Level 35 in Arcane and Divine is not hard to get, even for a new player. I barely spent any plat at all on essences getting there; it was all essences from chests/end-rewards and deconstructions.

And a single Shroud run can be expected to provide enough plat-worth of ingredients to buy a silver blank of anything but Handwraps (which are besides the point in comparing to GS).

A +4 Holy Silver of EOB strikes me as hugely easier to get, for a new player, than a MinII.

[Dragavon]

Level 35 in Arcane and Divine is not hard to get, even for a new player. I barely spent any plat at all on essences getting there; it was all essences from chests/end-rewards and deconstructions.

And a single Shroud run can be expected to provide enough plat-worth of ingredients to buy a silver blank of anything but Handwraps (which are besides the point in comparing to GS).

A +4 Holy Silver of EOB strikes me as hugely easier to get, for a new player, than a MinII.

A silver blank in a good weapon type costs several 100k on the AH on Ghallanda. You do not get that from one Shroud run.

I do not agree on anything you say here tbh.

[dkyle]

A silver blank in a good weapon type costs several 100k on the AH on Ghallanda. You do not get that from one Shroud run.

I do not agree on anything you say here tbh.

Suppose Shroud ingredients run about 400k for Scale, 200k for stone, 100k for Shrap, 50k for the others. That gives 141k expected per run, which is reasonable for at least a Greatsword on the Khyber AH from what I've seen. Another run and you've got a Falchion or Khopesh. That's two out of the expected 18 Shroud completions for a MinII.

And as for grind of 35 levels of Arcane/Divine vs grind for a MinII... based on my experience, the Cannith crafting was so much easier and shorter than the grind for a dual-shard GS that I'm having trouble understanding where you're coming from. It wasn't even comparable. And then factor in all the other weapons I've gotten out of it for almost free...

[Boegvar]

You dont need to spend much time to be able to craft a weapon that does well hitting devils, a +4 Holy Silver of (G/E)ob will do fine if you have the ic feat. Crafting such a weapon cost not as much time, as getting the components of a min2 weapon, and you can craft it before you reach the shroud, so there wont be an excuse not to have a harry beater once you are flagged for shroud. If you need a weapon for the demon queen, just craft a holy silver of eob.
There wont be many weapons that can be compared to lit2, so lit2 is worth crafting. You dont need min2 at level 12, lit2 will be ok.

I bought 2 silver khopeshes in the ah and spent no more than 5K plat each, maybe im lucky, but just check it regularly there will be many cheap weapons.

[QuantumFX]

Favorite Single shard weapons:

• Triple Earth - Prople seem to think that, since the changes to helplessness, that this weapon has, somehow, become “useless”. They couldn’t be more wrong. Yes, you lose autocrits, but you gain helplessness damage on constructs, and undead. And it’s absolutely rediculous damage on a demon.
• Triple Positive - With the one exception of the doomsphere in Ghosts of Perdition, you don’t need any other undead weapons.

Favorite Dual shard weapons:

• Lightning II - Great general purpose mob beater. The only reason to craft over this is for mobs with a special DR and stuff that is *really* hard to hit.
• Radiance II - Great damage *and* damage mitigation on a single weapon? Yes, please!

[Doganpc]

Don't think you can craft the equivalent to a concordant opposition item either... Besides, Shroud runs are one of the best for crafting materials so why not do both?

Dogan
Probably missed the previous person who posted this.

[LordPiglet]

GS is superior for TR's, slot consolidation and extra effects.

That said, I have 2 silver kopeshes I'll eventually strip to base and add holy burst glob