Sorc Polar Ray math

[Atax]

Apologies if my math is incorrect or a made a false assumption about the way these mechanics function. All data was taken off the DDO wiki. I'm trying to calculate the damage of Polar Ray, the 'best' single-target cold spell (which has no save!)

POLAR RAY DAMAGE: 152-228, CRITICAL: 533-770
4-6d/level [level 22] = 88-132
+50% {*1.5} (Superior Glaciation 8 SET)
+15% {*1.15} (Awaken weakness x1)

Crit = Damage + 175% or Damage * 3.375
+125% {*2.25} Sorc Deadly Ice 6
+50% {*1.5} Superior Ice Lore

-------For fun, MAXIMUM POLAR RAY DAMAGE: 231-346, CRITICAL: 780-1168-------
4-6 damage/level [caster level 22 from Water Savant 3] = 88-132
+50% {*1.5} (Superior Glaciation 8 SET BONUS)
+75% {*1.75} (Awaken weakness x5)

Crit = Damage + 175% or Damage * 3.375
+125% {*2.25} Sorc Deadly Ice 6
+50% {*1.5} Superior Ice Lore


Are these totals correct?
Much thanks,
Hemmer

[adamkatt]

I dont do numbers. When i was ice savant the hardest it hit a single target.. fire elly in shroud 4500. yes i killed it too eairly not expecting that much... That was with full glacial gear max/emp only.

[Jaid314]

Apologies if my math is incorrect or a made a false assumption about the way these mechanics function. All data was taken off the DDO wiki. I'm trying to calculate the damage of Polar Ray, the 'best' single-target cold spell (which has no save!)

POLAR RAY DAMAGE: 152-228, CRITICAL: 533-770
4-6d/level [level 22] = 88-132
+50% {*1.5} (Superior Glaciation 8 SET)
+15% {*1.15} (Awaken weakness x1)

Crit = Damage + 175% or Damage * 3.375
+125% {*2.25} Sorc Deadly Ice 6
+50% {*1.5} Superior Ice Lore

-------For fun, MAXIMUM POLAR RAY DAMAGE: 231-346, CRITICAL: 780-1168-------
4-6 damage/level [caster level 22 from Water Savant 3] = 88-132
+50% {*1.5} (Superior Glaciation 8 SET BONUS)
+75% {*1.75} (Awaken weakness x5)

Crit = Damage + 175% or Damage * 3.375
+125% {*2.25} Sorc Deadly Ice 6
+50% {*1.5} Superior Ice Lore


Are these totals correct?
Much thanks,
Hemmer

nope.

first off, awaken weakness is a flat 25% these days, non-stacking.

not sure why you'd be using glacial assault, the set bonus isn't itself worth wearing 2 parts of the set (though often wearing the gloves and the bracers simply because the gloves and the bracers each have good abilities of their own is reasonable) let alone 3.

telvi's sash gives you 3 clickies at 3 minutes each of +75% damage and is a better option.

finally, you're leaving out empower and maximise entirely. what gives?

so a more likely calculation, if you're looking at a reasonably well-geared cold savant:

base: "26d6" --> 26d3 + 78 = 104-156 damage

non-crit:

base * (1 + 0.75 superior freeze VIII + 0.5 enhancement) * (1 + 1 maximise + 0.5 empower +0.2 capstone) * 1.25 awaken weakness
= base * 2.25 * 2.7 * 1.25
= base * 7.59375
= 789.75-1184.625 damage

your critical damage multiplier is also off. it should be:

non-crit * (1 + 1.75 enhancement + 0.5 lore)
= non-crit * 3.25
= 2566.6875-3850.03125 damage.

for an exceptionally well-equipped savant (eardweller, Telvi's sash and ring, abishai set, and evocation augmentation IX), it would be:

"30d6" --> 30d3 + 90 = 120-180

base * (1 + 1 eardweller + 0.5 enhancements) * (1 + 1 maximise + 0.5 empower + 0.2 capstone) * 1.25 awaken weakness
= base * 2.5 * 2.7 *1.25
= base * 8.4375
= 1012.5-1518.75 damage

crit damage:

non-crit * 3.25 (same as before, can't get any higher number)
= 3290.625-4935.9375 damage.

of course, that's just the theoretical calculated damage. i personally don't have any such cold savant.

and also, that's the damage before resistances are applied.

some assumptions have been made (for example, that the sorcerer capstone is applied in the same bracket as the metamagic feats - my best guess is that this is accurate - and that fractions are carried through to the final calculation - honestly, i'm not sure if i would notice this)

but the important thing to come out of this situation understanding is that "holy <bleep> that's a lot of damage" one way or another

also, i'm curious if that matches what most water savants are seeing... i can honestly say i didn't think it would be *quite* that high...

edit: note that this kind of damage output is going to be rather difficult to maintain without guzzling mana potions like crazy - at 54 SP a shot, and assuming said well-equipped sorcerer cuts that down to only 50 SP a shot and has ~3k mana, that will be "only" about 60 shots, assuming absolutely no mana whatsoever is spent on buffing etc.

that's probably fine for a raid boss fight (even if you assume spamming also the two new DoT spells as well), but not so good for general questing. much more likely to see otiluke's freezing sphere being lobbed around in general questing, since that is much more efficient purely due to hitting many targets instead of 1.

[Atax]

first off, awaken weakness is a flat 25% these days, non-stacking.

telvi's sash gives you 3 clickies at 3 minutes each of +75% damage and is a better option.

finally, you're leaving out empower and maximise entirely. what gives?

so a more likely calculation, if you're looking at a reasonably well-geared cold savant:

base: "26d6" --> 26d3 + 78 = 104-156 damage

I chopped your quote to respond to a few choice things. Thanks for the weakness correction.
Thanks for sash recommendation, however, telvi's sash gives Superior Freeze 8, which is +50%. This is the same bonus granted by Belashyrra's Scepter, cold version.
Thanks for empower/maximize suggestions, I will add those into the recalc.
As for your initial numbers, where do you get 26d6 OR 26d3 + 78??

Polar Ray's maximum caster level is 25, raised by 1 from Water Savant 3. However, your caster level is still only 20 [level] + 2 [water savant]. Shouldn't the initial damage be 88-132?

Also, does Telvi's Belt Water Savant set bonus stack with the enhancement?? For now, I will recalculate without it.

Thanks for the input!

[Morosy]

Ok, to post above, yes Telvi's Sash gives 75%. Cap for Polar Ray gets raised to 28 actually, and then the Sorc savant bonus raises that cap to 30. He's getting 26d6 from what any run of the mill 20 sorc will be doing.

To Jaid, the weakness is 15%.

Edit: Cool scepter. Guess it's nice to have something for when Telvi's Sash is out. But I guess if it's that long between shrines, single nukes (non-sla) might not be the best spells to be using.

[Atax]

1: Why is the linked telvi's sash saying 50% if its 75%? Was it changed? Can I get a screenshot of the 75%?
EDIT: I looked at one in-game, the DDO wiki is incorrect and needs to be fixed. :P

2: According to the DDO wiki (which I am starting to doubt heavily), Polar Ray has a default maximum caster level of 25. What raises it to 28? Where do you see that savant raises it by 3 when the ability states that it only raises CAP by 1, and CASTER LEVEL by 2? (CAP and CASTER LEVEL are different - If you are only reaching caster level 22, you don't hit the cap of 26)

[Atax]

TRIPLE EDIT: Special thanks to Electric of Thelanis, who helped me get the last bits of info. Please double check these digits, gentlemen.

-----------------
-----------------

MAXIMUM POLAR RAY DAMAGE: 1111-1666, CRITICAL: 3750-5623
4-6d/level [CL30***] = 120-180
+75% {*1.75} (Telvi's Sash)
+100% {*2} (Eardweller)
+100% {*2} (Maximize)
+15% {*1.15} (Empower)
+15% {*1.15} (Awaken weakness)

Crit = Damage + 175% or Damage * 3.375
+125% {*2.25} Sorc Deadly Ice 6
+50% {*1.5} Superior Ice Lore

***20 base + 6 Savant I, II, III + 2 Telvi Set + 3 Abishai Set = CL31, However, the default cap on polar ray is 25. 25 + 3 [savants] + 2 [Telvi's] only allows Polar Ray to be a maximum of CL30.

-----------------
-----------------

[lethargos]

Are you stacking sash and eardweller ? Only one item enhacement applies.

[earlran]

Eardweller is a +100% stacking Psionic bonus to spell damage. It stacks with everything

[MaDLAB]

also, i'm curious if that matches what most water savants are seeing... i can honestly say i didn't think it would be *quite* that high...

Yes, that is similar to what I see during raid/epic boss fights. Altho a few of ur numbers are incorrect....the bulk is correct. I usually hit critical with 2800+ with Telvi but not the other items on.

[LeLoric]

Eardweller is a +100% stacking Psionic bonus to spell damage. It stacks with everything

While this is what it says it is not how it works.

Eardweller does not stack with any other boost off an item so you either get 50% potency/glaciation, 75% from freeze clickie, or 100% from eardweller clickie.

[Arctigis]

While this is what it says it is not how it works.

Eardweller does not stack with any other boost off an item so you either get 50% potency/glaciation, 75% from freeze clickie, or 100% from eardweller clickie.

This is 100% correct (verified).

Spell damage calculation is:

BASE * (1 + enhancements + potency) * (1+ maximise + empower + BoP) * (curse)

BoP does indeed stack as a feat (verified).

Water Savant III gives +3 MCL and +6 CL. Using Polar Ray as an example, this will increase the max damage
dice to 28d3 + 84. However, without other forms of +CL boost, it will only be cast at CL 26. With ToD Water
Savant Set (+2 MCL), full Epic Abishai set (+3CL on Evocation spells) and the Epic Staff of Arcane Power (+2 CL),
you should be able to cast 30d3 + 90 Polar Rays.

EDIT: Add 'unity' back into the feat damage calculations where I accidentally omitted it.

[Milfeulle]

This is 100% correct (verified).

Spell damage calculation is:

BASE * (1 + enhancements + potency) * (1 + maximise + empower + BoP) * (curse)

you should be able to cast 30d3 + 90 Polar Rays.

Fixed it for ya. Here's some result for a CL30 polar ray with everything ON:

non-crit:

BASE * (1 + enhancements + potency) * (1 + maximise + empower + BoP) * (curse)
= BASE * (1 + 0.5+ 1) * (1 + 1 + 0.5 + 0.2) * (1.15)
= BASE * (2.5) * (2.7) * (1.15)
= BASE * 7.7625
= (120-180) * 7.7625
= 931.5~1397.25

crit:

BASE * 7.7625 * (1+ enhancements + major lore or TOD ring)
= BASE * 7.7625 * (1+ 1.25 + 0.5)
= BASE * 7.7625 * 2.75
= BASE * 21.347 (round up from 21.346875)
= (120-180) * 21.347
= 2562~3842

[danotmano1998]

Thanks to everyone for the math, I was wondering exactly how everything stacked.

Not that I intend to calculate my exact damage on a spell, it's just good to know what/how things work in general.

I just cast and things die. This makes me smile.

[Morosy]

TRIPLE EDIT: Special thanks to Electric of Thelanis, who helped me get the last bits of info. Please double check these digits, gentlemen.

-----------------
-----------------

MAXIMUM POLAR RAY DAMAGE: 1111-1666, CRITICAL: 3750-5623
4-6d/level [CL30***] = 120-180
+75% {*1.75} (Telvi's Sash)
+100% {*2} (Eardweller)
+100% {*2} (Maximize)
+15% {*1.15} (Empower)
+15% {*1.15} (Awaken weakness)

Crit = Damage + 175% or Damage * 3.375
+125% {*2.25} Sorc Deadly Ice 6
+50% {*1.5} Superior Ice Lore

***20 base + 6 Savant I, II, III + 2 Telvi Set + 3 Abishai Set = CL31, However, the default cap on polar ray is 25. 25 + 3 [savants] + 2 [Telvi's] only allows Polar Ray to be a maximum of CL30.

-----------------
-----------------

One more little nitpick. The Telvi's set only raises the MAX CL. So it does not go into your calculations to allow the CL 31 there.

[Atax]

Excellent work, everyone. Glad to see how far sorcs can push the stupidly high damage envelope.

[Arctigis]

Fixed it for ya.

Thanks, it was a typo (by omission).

BoP 100% stacks with feats.

[Milfeulle]

One more little nitpick. The Telvi's set only raises the MAX CL. So it does not go into your calculations to allow the CL 31 there.

In game it says maximum caster level, however, in release note:

◦The Sorcerer Elemental Savant set bonuses from Tower of Despair items now apply their third tier effects, which are accessible if a character has taken the third tier of an Elemental Savant Prestige Enhancement line. The bonuses will increase the caster level of spells from a player's chosen Savant element by an additional +2.

Release note does not mention max caster level and clearly says increase the savant element by an additionoal +2.

If so, the maximum caster level for polar ray would be 28.

A Dev's response would be appreciated.

[Arctigis]

In game it says maximum caster level, however, in release note:

◦The Sorcerer Elemental Savant set bonuses from Tower of Despair items now apply their third tier effects, which are accessible if a character has taken the third tier of an Elemental Savant Prestige Enhancement line. The bonuses will increase the caster level of spells from a player's chosen Savant element by an additional +2.

Release note does not mention max caster level and clearly says increase the savant element by an additionoal +2.

If so, the maximum caster level for polar ray would be 28.

A Dev's response would be appreciated.

I believe that's a typo. The ToD set bonus affects the maximum caster level not the caster level. I'm pretty sure
there is a Dev. post somewhere confirming this.

[Zerkul]

Yeah i usually find myself ding 1100k damage usually with plain polar on non weak mobs without any crit and only with awaken cold res. Of course on elementals i once shotted one in Small Problem for 8k+ damage with a single shot. Brrr freeze!