Anyone Else Think DDO Economy Needs an Adjustment?

[jakeelala]

Flawless Red Devil Scales for example. Currently prices around 1mpp, or 2 LDS.

WHICH IS CRAZY. Think about the two things which should determine the price of FRDS and LDS. Scarcity and Utility.

FRDS can only be used to make red dragonscale items which, while nice, are not really vastly superior to GS items that LDS's go into (any number of GS items). Now I realize for many vet's they already have a lot of GS and therefore are looking for the next new toy ie red dragon scale. However, the red dragonscale items while nice, I really don't think justify the trade value.

I seem to pull a FRDS about every 3-4 eVons. I pulls LDS's about 1 in every 10 shroud runs. For most good items you need 5 LDS. That's 50 shrouds (and assuming really bad luck). For a red dragonscale item you need 20 FRDS, which is about 60-80 dragon runs (although some people have better luck). For them to be worth double an LDS, I would expect the drop rate to require more like 100 eVon's.

I highlight these two items because they seem to be the anchor (or gold standard) for the prices of almost everything else in game.

Moreover, now that spellcasters are WAY too powerful, farming epic scrolls is like old school Giant Cave runs. It's just not fair. So frankly, I think scroll prices are way over priced too. Scales of either type, which you simply can't really farm for, should be priced far above and beyond scrolls, which can be farmed for, day in and day out, without timer, solo.

Good luck getting an LDS or FRDS solo.

So, am I crazy, or are the rest of you crazy with your pricing? I expect a fair amount of flaming from the solo scroll farmers who want to keep their artificially high prices where they are.

*edit* You can of course solo amrath quests or DA elite or epic to try and get Shroud ingredients I suppose.

[articwarrior]

unfortunately you cannot reform a virtual economy

[Goldeneye]

I agree. They should be cheaper. I only need like 4 more.

In all seriousness: Price is determined by demand, and how much people are willing to pay.

Inflation has always been a problem in ddo - since there isn't enough ways that the game reduces the amount of currency in circulation.

The economy gets fixed by making plat worth something again. Plat is made valuable by creating plat sinks. Turbine is making slow progress on plat sinks: yugoloth pots are a good example, as are spell swaps, guild ships, and the new crafting system where vendor trash is no longer sold for plat, but instead broken down for ingredients.

[stille_nacht]

far fewer runs of eVON than shroud normal.

far lower success percentage on runs of eVON vs. shroud normal.

far higher need per person for flawless reds (30 vs. 12 or so).

these factors drive the price of FRDS up.

[crazydamage]

Red dragon scale is the BEST armor in the game, tied with marilith chain.

Marilith does slightly more dps vs raid bosses or fire immune enemies.
Red scale does slightly more dps vs epic trash and vastly more dmg vs anything which takes double dmg to fire (eFens, eVon1, eWiz king). Red scale also has an extra colorless slot and 40 fire resist.

So first of all your post is completely innacurate, as red scale should be worth the same as marilith chain based on power alone, not to mention that it takes both 20 reds and 20 whites/blacks to make epic red.

[jakeelala]

I agree. They should be cheaper. I only need like 4 more.

In all seriousness: Price is determined by demand, and how much people are willing to pay.

Inflation has always been a problem in ddo - since there isn't enough ways that the game reduces the amount of currency in circulation.

This is not entirely true.

Price in a bargaining economy is not based purely on demand, that's a free market economics myth. Price is as much determined by PERCEPTION of demand and PERCEPTION of value as it is by actual demand.

IF everyone who pulls a FRDS looks at the forum and thinks it's worth a certain amount, than it will be to them.

If everyone stops and thinks about true value of things for a moment, large fluctuations in price can occur as the public sentiment toward a good or commodity rationalizes. Remember, price setting in economics (as in valuation of utility) depends on perfect information, a small yet infinitely significant clause that is basically impossible in an actual economic system. In this case, perfect drop rate statistics on scales, current supply, and number of epic scrolls and plat in circulation in the economy would be required for perfect information.

But what I do know is, plat got a lot more valuable when crafting dropped, certain items get less valuable now that they can be crafted, and yet scale and most scroll prices stayed the same, which is strange.

[stupid123]

Stop crying and roll a caster, I was making 10+lds a day. Also got 20frds in 3 days. Ahh gotta love casters

[jakeelala]

far fewer runs of eVON than shroud normal

far lower success percentage on runs of eVON vs. shroud normal.


.

Huh? Far fewer runs? I don't understand.

And as for success rate, the people who wear red dragon scale are the people who run eVon successfully 90% of the time. They're not failing runs.

[rocky0]

I've been thinking for awhile now that the economy was broken or at least having some issues. I really can't speak toward the items like the dragon scales and the Shroud collectibles and the like. It seems that even the more basic stuff has tripled in price on some things. I remember when +1 Tomes could be had for 10 - 12k, now they are 20k if you are lucky. The Bloodstone is now going for over 1 mil but when I got mine the high price was about 600k.

When +2 clothing items are going for 12k - 15k, something just doesnt seem right. I know the arguement that just because they are in auction for that amountdoesnt mean they sell for that amount and I agree. Yet when you need that item and you cant find it, it still works the same way, you have no item or pay the crazy price.

I am not going to rant and rave and scream doooommmmmmmm is coming but I do feel there are issues. Sadly, I have no ideas, good or bad, on how it could be fixed or at least improved

[jakeelala]

Stop crying and roll a caster, I was making 10+lds a day. Also got 20frds in 3 days. Ahh gotta love casters

I'm not crying or suggesting anyone change casters.

I'm simply commenting on the fact that the economy reflects pre-u9 prices. In reality things have changed drastically (casters being a huge part of that) and I don't see those changes "trickling down" as it were.

[jakeelala]

I've been thinking for awhile now that the economy was broken or at least having some issues. I really can't speak toward the items like the dragon scales and the Shroud collectibles and the like. It seems that even the more basic stuff has tripled in price on some things. I remember when +1 Tomes could be had for 10 - 12k, now they are 20k if you are lucky. The Bloodstone is now going for over 1 mil but when I got mine the high price was about 600k.

When +2 clothing items are going for 12k - 15k, something just doesnt seem right. I know the arguement that just because they are in auction for that amountdoesnt mean they sell for that amount and I agree. Yet when you need that item and you cant find it, it still works the same way, you have no item or pay the crazy price.

I am not going to rant and rave and scream doooommmmmmmm is coming but I do feel there are issues. Sadly, I have no ideas, good or bad, on how it could be fixed or at least improved

What you're describing is most likely due to crafting, coupled with the tail end of a huge plat glut after the Crystal Cove event when Turbine made it exceptionally easy to get very rich very quick.

[jakeelala]

Stop crying and roll a caster, I was making 10+lds a day. Also got 20frds in 3 days. Ahh gotta love casters

And thank you, by the way, for completely proving my point unequivocally.

[sirgog]

I'm still waiting for FRDS to crash in price relative to LDS.

Supply of FRDS is somewhat low but constant, but demand at the moment isn't driven by people actually using them, it's driven by people using them as currency. Not enough people have the resources to make red scale, and many of those that do prefer other armors. So the actual number of FRDS in circulation keeps increasing.

Whereas LDS - well they just keep getting used. HP item on every character. SP item on most characters that ever get a cleanser. 2 Lit 2 Khopeshes on every TWF melee. A Lit 2 on every THF melee that doesn't expect to quickly have an Epic weapon crafted. Then other situational weapons.

Supply on LDS is high, but so is demand and, more importantly, removal from circulation.


As for plat - why would anyone in their right mind trade a useful item (LDS/FRDS) for garbage (platinum)? IRL I wouldn't trade my car for glass beads, no matter how many of them you offered. Plat is this game's equivalent of glass beads - totally useless.

[Gkar]

supply and demand

[DoctorWhofan]

not really. THen again, alot of people use the AH to guide what they should price things at, and that just isn't smart. I saw a masterwork shortsword on there for a 100k pp buyout. yeah right. I think it's fine. The overpriced stuff just doesn't get bought, which is what you DON'T see.

[stille_nacht]

Huh? Far fewer runs? I don't understand.

And as for success rate, the people who wear red dragon scale are the people who run eVon successfully 90% of the time. They're not failing runs.

on any given day there will be at least 10 completions of shroud. not so for eVoN

also, VoN does fail on occasion (perhaps 20%) when people dont drop towers properly, etc. not everyone who runs eVoN has an epic red dragon scale robe, or is even aiming at one, certainly not the types who sell frds

these things mean less frds on the market

[R0cksteady]

Shroud is easier, can be farmed, and Devil scales can come from Devil Assault and Amrath quests. They're easier to get.

Also, maybe I just have bad luck, but I've only pulled 4 FRDS in over 100 dragon runs. Luckily I trade scrolls for them.

[Auran82]

Your mum needs an adjustment.

[jakeelala]

I'm still waiting for FRDS to crash in price relative to LDS.

Supply of FRDS is somewhat low but constant, but demand at the moment isn't driven by people actually using them, it's driven by people using them as currency. Not enough people have the resources to make red scale, and many of those that do prefer other armors. So the actual number of FRDS in circulation keeps increasing.

Whereas LDS - well they just keep getting used. HP item on every character. SP item on most characters that ever get a cleanser. 2 Lit 2 Khopeshes on every TWF melee. A Lit 2 on every THF melee that doesn't expect to quickly have an Epic weapon crafted. Then other situational weapons.

Supply on LDS is high, but so is demand and, more importantly, removal from circulation.


As for plat - why would anyone in their right mind trade a useful item (LDS/FRDS) for garbage (platinum)? IRL I wouldn't trade my car for glass beads, no matter how many of them you offered. Plat is this game's equivalent of glass beads - totally useless.

This.

This is absolutely correct. The number of people trading for red scales is vastly disproportionate to the number of people who actually wear red scale armor. 1:1000.

It is in fact being used as currency, and it is in fact stupid. There is becoming a glut of red scales, as well as a glut of epic scrolls with the new farming mechanics.

Therefore LDS can only go up. And you're right, they are more easily farmed but they are also MUCH more quickly used up. Even if you get 20 or 30 FRDS or whatever it is, good luck having the other scales you need, plus the don't you need a shard too?

It's a joke. They're a terrible currency.

With the introduction of crafting however I disagree with you on plat. Plat is being sucked out of the economy very quickly now that people don't sell 90% of the chest loot they pull, the decon it. Rather, it's not being pulled out so quickly, it's just not being replenished anything like as fast as before.

As plat decreases, of course, its value returns.

[Vellrad]

As for plat - why would anyone in their right mind trade a useful item (LDS/FRDS) for garbage (platinum)? IRL I wouldn't trade my car for glass beads, no matter how many of them you offered. Plat is this game's equivalent of glass beads - totally useless.

IDK, but I can't exchange LDS or FRDS for yugo pots :/