PD shroud?

[Bodic]

Just a curiosity really how do you handle the transition to part 5 of shroud? As you would to my understanding be unable to continue.
or is this particular raid not ran?

[Habreno]

PD usually make exceptions for certain things such as this raid. If they are running the raid, I would imagine that they would have the exception in place.

Certain PD allow for raising by spellpoints, as well. Contact your local PD guild for information and how to join.

[katz]

i believe they make exceptions for shroud...its an unavoidable mechanic of the quest to be killed, and subsequently raised, by the shroud. i guess you could say you are being subject to divine/planar forces beyond your control, are YOU gonna argue with the planes that you're back alive?

trust in the Shroud

[ddobard1]

It isn't a death, its just the mechanics of the quest!

So it isn't treated as a Death, but it's a voyage to the past!

[TheRealest]

PD usually make exceptions for certain things such as this raid. If they are running the raid, I would imagine that they would have the exception in place.

Certain PD allow for raising by spellpoints, as well. Contact your local PD guild for information and how to join.

Yes, most PD allow you to be raised inside the dungeon, via sp (or rise of the pheonix ftw!) although some bar siberys cakes and some bar it entirely.

[Chai]

Has it been a while already? Seems like this topic gets brought up quite a bit.

Its a plot fu game mechanic, and nothing more.

I also find it humerous that people will bring up that the shroud "kills" their character, but they dont bring up that the shroud also "raises" their character as well.

So even if someone wanted to say the death counts, they would also have to say the raise counts.

Theres no issue, in either case.

[Bodic]

Has it been a while already? Seems like this topic gets brought up quite a bit.

Its a plot fu game mechanic, and nothing more.

I also find it humerous that people will bring up that the shroud "kills" their character, but they dont bring up that the shroud also "raises" their character as well.

So even if someone wanted to say the death counts, they would also have to say the raise counts.

Theres no issue, in either case.

Well I had not really looked for or have seen anything about this and as I said more a curiosity. I understand teh quest mechanic, but I was goign fo are there some UBER hardcores that woudl say your dead so your dead even if the shroud brings you back. more leading towards thought of future realm of the dead questing with any hope you know that tease we get at the planar guy for amarath.

[Chai]

Well I had not really looked for or have seen anything about this and as I said more a curiosity. I understand teh quest mechanic, but I was goign fo are there some UBER hardcores that woudl say your dead so your dead even if the shroud brings you back. more leading towards thought of future realm of the dead questing with any hope you know that tease we get at the planar guy for amarath.

Sure, I understand. every update that gets rolled out I run over to the teleporter and see if I can get sent to lamannia, heh.

Is there anyone who plays PD, besides PnP, with the rule of death = reroll, regardless of level, ability to raise etc? I have played here in DDO, ran a server in NWN for ~5 years, REFed 5 or 6 MUDs which were scripted and coded by individuals, and even played online turn based D&D. I have never to date seen anyone playing PD with the rule that no raises were allowed, unless it was PnP tabletop. I am not sure why this is, but I believe it has to do at least in part with the fact that turn based combat that takes long periods of time to simulate a minute or two of combat. Alot more effects get spammed in a video game, and eventually a player will roll a 1.

Correction. I did see a server go up in NWN -ONCE- where death = reroll, but no one logged in after a week or two. I remember running around with a few players, getting facerolled by some orcs, and not being able to respawn. After being logged out an entire day dead players would still log in dead. Since there was no way to raise, the only way to delete a toon was from character screen.

[parvo]

In Mortal Voyage, it will probably count against the con limit. For some characters that would be a deal breaker. For others, it might be worth it. In my guild, we won't farm it repeatedly with the same character anyway.

[Faent]

In Mortal Voyage, it will probably count against the con limit. For some characters that would be a deal breaker. For others, it might be worth it. In my guild, we won't farm it repeatedly with the same character anyway.

This strikes me as quite silly. If you don't want to farm it repeatedly FOR XP, ok. But if you've capped a PD toon, you can't farm it? Puhlease.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

Not that my opinion matters much...

But I would suggest you look at it as ancient magic that is unique to a certain area/plan/time....whatever. And accept it as part of the story, and not penalize players because of it...in any way.

With Magic, there are always exceptions to rules.
The "DMs' of DDO have decided that you will "die" here to have an interesting adventure/story.


I think things like that should not hurt players. Spoilers are impossible to avoid, I don't think you would want anyone to choose not to play this interesting quest, because they knew they would have to die....and lose (or add to the potential to lose) their favorite character.

[parvo]

This strikes me as quite silly. If you don't want to farm it repeatedly FOR XP, ok. But if you've capped a PD toon, you can't farm it? Puhlease.

Players don't join Mortal Voyage to farm.

[Chai]

Its merely a technicality - they could have used any type of mechanic, but they chose to use one where someone clicks on a portal and it kills the entire party, which is the only way to get to part 5 after defeating part 4. It then revives the entire party in part 5.

I think things like that should not hurt players. Spoilers are impossible to avoid, I don't think you would want anyone to choose not to play this interesting quest, because they knew they would have to die....and lose (or add to the potential to lose) their favorite character.

Yeap, exactly.

This is another prime example where if the guild leaders of the respective PD guilds had control of the entire environment in which the players play, ~NWN or another PW game, they wouldnt put a mechanic like this in. "Well people, you can only defeat this quest by dying, in permadeath." - LOL. That would make for a pretty sadistic PD DM, heh.

We run the quests as they are designed, play the game as it was designed, and accept DDO as an incarnation of D&D, and its own entity, rather than expecting it to be PnP. If a quest is designed with a specific mechanic that has to be used to win, theres no need to penalize players for doing so.

[jwdaniels]

I'm not really sure I understand the logic behind permadeath in a game of high fantasy where magic can make just about anything possible, particularly in the 3.0/3.5 ruleset where they did away with limits to the number of times you could ressurect a character. I also don't see a reason to limit yourself to not playing a quest because of a mechanic within the quest, as a previous poster said.

Not that it matters what I think - if it's fun for you then go for it, and you can always roll a non-PD toon as well if you want to give it a whirl. It just seems silly to me.

EDIT: People played PD in tabletop games?

[boricua_in_cali]

it's unfortunate that you lose 10% xp though, due to the (unavoidable) deaths.

[parvo]

I'm not really sure I understand the logic behind permadeath in a game of high fantasy where magic can make just about anything possible, particularly in the 3.0/3.5 ruleset where they did away with limits to the number of times you could ressurect a character. I also don't see a reason to limit yourself to not playing a quest because of a mechanic within the quest, as a previous poster said.

Not that it matters what I think - if it's fun for you then go for it, and you can always roll a non-PD toon as well if you want to give it a whirl. It just seems silly to me.

EDIT: People played PD in tabletop games?

Because when death doesn't matter permadeath doesn't matter and your game looks just like "normal" play. Players join Mortal Voyage to get away from a boring grind to twenty and repeated farming runs of Shroud. My guild is different because if it's not, there is no reason for being. There are thousands of guild with purpose being "just have fun playing DDO". Thats as uninspired as a hot fart in the sahara.

[jwdaniels]

Because when death doesn't matter permadeath doesn't matter and your game looks just like "normal" play. Players join Mortal Voyage to get away from a boring grind to twenty and repeated farming runs of Shroud. My guild is different because if it's not, there is no reason for being. There are thousands of guild with purpose being "just have fun playing DDO". Thats as uninspired as a hot fart in the sahara.

I dunno. I try pretty hard not to die when I play, but sometimes stuff happens. I don't have enough free time to devote to gaming to up and delete a toon because he died too many times. I find it a lot more fun than a hot fart in the sahara.

I can see only allowing raising by someone in the party (and this would also make the Shroud mechanic okay) and only result in true death in cases of a party wipe, but if you're going to put every character on a time why allow raising at all then?

This may not be the best place for this conversation, but it sounds like your PD guild is far more hardcore than most and your view on the shroud mechanic seems very atypical of most PD guilds I've seen.

[Chai]

Because when death doesn't matter permadeath doesn't matter and your game looks just like "normal" play. Players join Mortal Voyage to get away from a boring grind to twenty and repeated farming runs of Shroud. My guild is different because if it's not, there is no reason for being. There are thousands of guild with purpose being "just have fun playing DDO". Thats as uninspired as a hot fart in the sahara.

Oberoni.

Death by player fault matters in PD.

Death due to a designer / programmer putting an unavoidable mechanic into a quest that is merely there to get you from point A to point B is a technicality and nothing more. Theres no player fault there. No need to penalize players for playing the game the way it was designed to be played.

[dkyle]

EDIT: People played PD in tabletop games?

I disallow Raise Dead in the 4E game I DM. Partly because the world I'm using is generally low magic, where the characters are exceptions that have been gaining forgotten knowledge as they level (and the Raise Dead ritual would logically bear tremendous upheaval if it suddenly became available), and partly because character death is so rare in 4E, that it seems like it should mean something when it actually happens. We just got to level 21, and there have only been two deaths. One very early on, and one very recently.

So, I guess that means we're playing PD in a tabletop game.


As for permadeath in DDO, I don't play it, or have much interest in it, but I don't think it's really about "realism" in a fantasy setting. It's the different style of gameplay it engenders. In a game where death is normally barely an annoyance, permadeath is a big change.

[Chai]

EDIT: People played PD in tabletop games?

Its where the term originates from, and really the only incarnation of the game where I have seen strict "no raises" PD succeed in being entertainment for long periods of time where people want to continue playing it that way. Most of the campaigns I have been DM for are PD - since the mid 80s or so.

All this hard core restriction stuff in tabletop is called "low magic campaign" or "iron man campaign" - where the DM creates an environment where there are no limitless consumables, and magic items are hard to come by.