Feedback: Cleric 101 (Work in Progress)

[KingOfCheese]

Sometimes the best healing is the result of avoiding damage in the first place--command, greater command, comet fall, and other spells that temporarily disable opponents often make the most efficient use of your spell points.

[dkyle]

Oh, and one thing I have to ask: Do we REALLY need all of these active metamagics as feats? While I have played a cleric and have had to juggle metamagics(Meaning I dont need all of them on all of the time), I think a new player would be scared away if they saw how many of their feats composed of metamagics.

You mean should a new player build with so many metamagics, or should the game be changed to make metamagics easier to use?

There's not much we can do with the game as it is now but suck it up and take the metamagics, and do our best to deal with them. A Cleric without Empowered Healing, Quicken, and Maximize isn't much of a healer. Without Empower, not much of a nuker. Without Heighten, not much of a CCer.

But supposedly we'll be getting some way to assign metamagics to specific spells, instead of having to use toggles.

[FordyTwo]

Thanks for the feedback everyone! I'm combing through the advice right now and will update the original post a little later with contribution mentions, as always.

[FlyingTurtle]

Extend and MT aren't really wasted on a newbie cleric: they increase the margin of error for someone not used to mana conservation. Considering the alternatives: Empower, Power attack(?) etc, they're ok as cushions for a healbot.

[TheDjinnFor]

===Ability Point Buy===

I don't really like the low charisma on this toon... might I suggest just ditching jump and balance as viable skills (clerics are renowned as horrible jumpers...) and going with 12 cha to 8 int? Normally I would like to see 10 int on a cleric, but a human build gets one free skill so I'm comfortable saying that you don't need the int.

===Skills===

23 Concentration, 23 Diplomacy is okay for a cleric. Personally I would go 22 Con 12 Balance 1 Tumble, or eat a +2 Int tome at lvl 7, but that's just me.

===Feats===

Your current feat layout is more for an evoker/CC cleric than a 'classic healer', though I think that's a good thing. Emphasizing that clerics can make good damage dealers using spells like Blade Barrier or use CC spells to mitigate damage is important for new clerics so that they know to try and step out of their little healbot box they may be used to in other games.

I would personally pick this progression:

1) Toughness
1) Extend
3) Empower Healing
6) Maximize
9) Empower
12) Quicken
15) Spell Penetration
18) Heighten

Edit: Someone mentioned Shield Mastery > Extend. I suppose that's a viable option.

Quicken and Heighten are really end-game metas in my opinion; I would like to see Emp Heal, Maximize, and Empower on the cleric before they get Blade Barrier, so that not only are their heals pretty strong (if they need to be) but they can start nailing those high damage numbers as soon as they get BB. Once they get into the middling levels they're going to need quicken to cast spells while being hit; their concentration and diplomacy should be able to handle it before then. Once you start hitting the upper levels, Heighten becomes important to hit some of the insta kills and other spells that clerics get; newbie clerics are often not comfortable using their mana for this purpose (which is why I don't see the need for it earlier) but in my opinion it is mana well-spent as you get used to how much mana you have.

Mental toughness has already been addressed as a fairly weak feat, only giving 105 SP at end game.

===Enhancements===

Some nice starting enhancements, but here's a breakdown like the one I provided to the Fighter 101, including the Cleric Prestige Enhancement, Radiant Servant, as well as some other odds and ends.

A good healing cleric will want powerful healing spells; Cleric Life Magic grants a 10% boost to positive and negative energy spells per tier (a very valuable effect), while Cleric Prayer of Life and Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life grant you a small chance to perform a much more powerful healing spell whenever you cast it; these are not so essential but you can take more ranks if you'd like.
-Cleric Life Magic I to IV
-Cleric Prayer of Life I to II
-Cleric Prayer of Incredible Life I to II

Clerics have an interesting ability called Turn Undead which can be somewhat effective at expelling weaker undead creatures. They can use that ability a number of times per day, and some of their enhancements require the cleric to expend Turn Undead uses; Divine Vitality, a spell that restores a small amount of mana to a fellow caster, is one such enhancement while Divine Healing, which restores a moderate amount of health over time, is another.
-Cleric Divine Vitality I to II
-Cleric Divine Healing I to II

Clerics are empowered by their faith in the divine, and the Sovereign Host is one such god; as a follower, you'll gain proficiency with longswords (or the ability to pass that power to an ally) as well as the Unyielding Sovereignty enhancement, a potent 'last resort' healing ability that restores a character to full health as well as removing several negative effects.
-Follower of the Sovereign Host
-Unyielding Sovereignty

Radiant Servant is a powerful prestige enhancement that augments your healing and damage-dealing abilities and allows you to expend some uses of your Turn Undead ability for a potent Healing Burst and a useful Aura of Healing. You'll also recharge Turn Undead uses at a slow rate. Both the Improved Turning and Improved Healing enhancements are required to unlock this (as are some of the enhancements taken above).
-Improved Turning I
-Improved Heal I to II
-Cleric Radiant Servant I to II

These enhancements will boost the clerics ability scores, health, and spellpoints by a reasonable amount; take more ranks if you'd like.
-Cleric Wisdom I to II
-Cleric Charisma I
-Human Adaptability: Wisdom
-Racial Toughness I to II
-Cleric Energy of the Zealot I to II

If you have a one-to-two sentence tip or advice for newbie clerics, do share. We'll have an "Every cleric should know ..." section at the beginning of the guide where we'll spotlight some helpful tips.

Here's some:
-Damage mitigation & prevention is almost always better than patching up the cuts and bruises after the fact; find a few good buffs to hit up your allies with and use spells like Soundburst & Command (at lower levels), Chaos Hammer & Holy Smite (at mid levels) and Cometfall & Greater Command (at higher levels) to stop enemies before they hurt your teammates.
-Target yourself with F1, and the rest of your party with F2-F6. This is important for when you want to heal or buff specific people. You can also click on their name in the listing to the left; this is particularly useful when there are many people in your group.
-Once you get Blade Barrier, you're golden; it's a potent and long-lasting area of effect spell that does a lot of damage with Maximize and Empower on.

[pjstechie]

There are times when you will need to completely focus on healing (and with experience you can reduce how often this is true). Don't be afraid to pull out a weapon or cast a few spells, but also don't be afraid of ceasing all activities other than keeping people alive.

I also find keeping an alternative hot bar that is loaded with every cure spell in the book for spamming situations. Switch primary hotbars, mash buttons.

[Phidius]

Skills
Concentration > Balance > Jump > Diplomacy. At higher levels, heavy armor will be replaced with ballroom gowns, but having a good balance (I aim for 40 with a +15 item and buffs) can keep you on your feet. Jump doesn't really need to be high... 4 ranks + 4 (GH) + 30 (spell) + 2 (str) = capped out skill.

Diplomacy can be useful for specific NPC conversations, but is by no means necessary.

Feats
I agree with losing Mental Toughness and Extend for Greater Spell Pen and Empower.

Tips
Use the buddy system when you're starting out - at the start of each quest, pick a "buddy". If things start to go pear-shaped, focus on keeping that person up, and let the rest go to hell. As you get better, add in more people until you can keep the entire party standing.

If your "buddy" keeps making himself unavailable, feel free to choose a new "buddy".

[nat_1]

-Every 101 should say under the enhancements that you can check "show unavailable". This is key for seeing what things do.

-Cleric 101 needs to have a small section devoted to explaining what you can do with turn uses. This is not clear until you start digging around in the enhancements and is a big part of being a cleric.

-I don't think you need quicken until late game, I think Mental Toughness does not have a big enough payday and is debated enough that it should come with a YMMV disclaimer rather than an endorsement.


There is a (valid) feeling amongst vets that a simple healbot does not live up to the cleric's potential. Without expecting new players to min/max out of the gate, I've heard this explanation that I think is pretty good:

Let's say that a cleric can heal, melee, and cast offensively.

If you imagine that a pure healer is built with these priorities:
Heal 100%
Melee 0%
Offensive 0%

With a fighter/barb and wiz/sorc representing 100% of the other two categories. A cleric is never going to hit 100% in the other two categories, however, this is not something that has to be an even split. If you back off healing a bit you can potentially end up with:

Heal 90%
Melee 60%
Offensive 0%

These numbers are plucked out of my, um, out of the air. I'm just trying to express the idea that a slight reduction in healing can produce modest gains in other areas. Sacrificing those top two points of WIS gets you 6 to pay into strength or dex, which can push your strength to usable numbers so you can hit things.

If someone doesn't want to heal the party, they should question why they are rolling a cleric (soloable clogue battleclerics are 102). However, once the party healing is taken care of it's ok to pick one other area and build to be able to contribute to it.

The levels you pick to balance these 3 categories will define what kind of cleric you are. Also, trying to do all 3 on a 28 pt build with no gear is something that should probably be cautioned against.

[Mellifera]

-Target yourself with F1, and the rest of your party with F2-F6. This is important for when you want to heal or buff specific people. You can also click on their name in the listing to the left; this is particularly useful when there are many people in your group.

If you take nothing else from this thread, please include that. I've run with so many newbie clerics that don't realize you can cycle through the party with the Fkeys. I think I was playing for 3 years before I realized I could click on a party members name to target them!

[Kourier]

Early cleric grouping: make sure the party stays within heal range. Pick out the best members of your team and hang with them. People who go running off should be prepared on their own - you have no obligation to endanger yourself by chasing them into suicidal situations.

If someone is repeatedly posing problems (runs away, complains, dies often), you may just want to carry their soul stone for a while.

Invest in some wands! Conserve your sp by using wands between fights.

You don't have to top everybody off - it's ok if the red bar isn't ENTIRELY full.

Horde your sp pots. Use them only if you must.

I woul recommend picking up both spell penetration feats and 2 ranks of the enhancement. First life cleerics need as muchh help as they can get.

Mobs will be easier to deal with if you understand weak points: casters have low fort and reflex saves. Melees have low reflex and will saves. Rangers/Rouges have low fort and will.

Blade barrier: This 6th level spell deals damage to those entering and exiting the blades. Run in circles around the blades for best results.

Radiant servant: The first enhancement gives you a burst which damages undead, heals allies, removes stat damage and negative levels. Remember to target yourself before using. The second enhancement gives you an aura which heals people standing in it. Very useful.

Against undead it gets hard to turn them so just Radiant burst them.

Heal and mass heal are ONLY affected by empower healing. Cure spells can be maxed and empowered as well.

[Doganpc]

Every cleric should know: That other players can expect too much from you, don't take it personally.

Dogan
One for the failed PUG clerics.

[Chette]

• STR … 10
• DEX … 8
• CON … 14
• INT … 10
• WIS … 18
• CHA … 10

I would move the 2 Str buy points into Cha.

===Skills===

At character creation, max out Concentration and Diplomacy, then put two points into Tumble (netting you a 1.0 rank). Use the remaining two points on Jump. At each level-up, keep Concentration and Diplomacy maxed, using the remaining points to get Jump to rank 10. Once Jump is at rank 10, or while you're getting it to rank 10, show some love to the Balance skill.

No need for diplomacy really, if they are playing like a healer, they won't get aggro. If they are offensive casting they want aggro so that things will move through blade barriers. Max balance instead, any remaining points into jump (it's nice to have as high as possible even unbuffed).

• 3) Extend Spell – While this metamagic feat is active, spells with durations last twice as long, but they consume 10 additional Spell Points (SP).

You guys need to stop saying this. The correct description would be Non-offensive spells with a duration last twice as long. There are very few non-offensive spells worth extending, unless you are a melee cleric. Extend is completely wasted on a casting build. Swap for empower spell.

• 12) Heighten Spell – While this metamagic feat is active, your spells are raised to the highest spell level your character can cast, making them more difficult to resist, but increasing their Spell Point (SP) cost.

I like heighten, but is probably more useful at 15 or 18. Not really a big deal, just worth mentioning.

• 15) Mental Toughness – Increases your maximum spell points by 10 at first level, and 5 Spell Points (SP) for each additional level.

I prefer spell focus evocation, at least mention it as an option.

• 18) Spell Penetration – Adds +2 to your caster level check for defeating spell resistance.

===Enhancements===

Nothing wrong with what you've listed, but please make sure to mention the prestige enhancement, what it does, and what you need to do in order to take it. Make sure they know they will need empower healing at or before level 6.

Finally, please include a description of some of the more useful spells. Mention the difference between crowd control spells (e.g. soundburst, command, symbol of stunning/persuasion), single target offensive spells (e.g. divine punishment) and mass damage spells (e.g. blade barrier, cometfall). Spell selection is one of the most important parts of playing a caster, so it deserves a little attention.

[danotmano1998]

One basic point to address that isn't mentioned.
Clerics are bricks. They typically don't have jump, nor can they haste/exp retreat.(Without a clickie, that is)

For this reason, I take a Least Dragonmark of Passage for a free level based exp. retreat, and I get jump as high as I can.

[Trowa88]

Looked through and if this has been mentioned and I missed it, I apologise.

Keep an eye out for superior ardor clickies, they give an extra boost to your healing spells compared to any kind of superior devotion or potency (75% increase compared to devotion and potency).

They come in potion form from certain vendors and if you can spare the money they're well worth it.

The clickies last for 3 minutes and have 3 charges each, they can be crafted if you go down that route.

(I think the description on them is still outdated, ignore it)

[Ancient]

Not only do you need to add a section on radiant servant, you should include the following details:

* Meta-magics do work on the burst
* burst targeting is bugged, the best way to reliably perform a burst is to target yourself
* Raising empowered healing to 75% makes mass cure light wounds a very nice spell

I agree that clerics are too feat starved to recommend extend or mental toughness.

If you are building a caster based cleric guide, be up front about it and include a section on offensive spells.

I personally would like to see you include a melee oriented build section with a section on what offensive spells are still worth taking.

It might also be worth including a section on the interactions between heal/mass heal and meta-magics. The fact that empower/maximize do not apply to heal spells means that there is more to meta-magic management than just turn them all on and forget. For example:

* While in offense mode (Max on, Empower on), a heal spell may be cheaper than a cure light wounds spell.
* In raid healing mode, turning max and empower off but leaving empowered healing on means that mass cure light wounds can be a nice patch heal.

If you want to include a section on splash builds and AC builds, I'd be glad to provide you a starting point.

[Junts]

I'd strongly urge the dropping of int and cha to 8 to support a 14 str: a 14 str cleric can melee acceptably up until level 10-12 with a decent weapon, and its a huge advantage to a new player to be able to do that.

a single extra turn undead or the like is hardly worth it, and as a human they already have 2 skill points/lv for jump+concentration.

At low levels, a cleric with ok full plate, a shield, and any kind of decent weapon can solo nearly anything between their acceptable melee ability and self-healing. That won't last, but it will get them through the ranges where grouping is by far most frustrating if they have problems, and they probably will - without access to consumable healing (ie wands), its very hard to heal other people, and if they join groups that expect them to they will be very frustrated in the harbor.

On the other hand, with a +3 full plate, a +3 heavy shield, and a +1 flaming weapon, they could probably solo waterworks on normal at level 4.

[Valiance]

Looks fine for what it is, a group friendly cleric not focused on soloing.

However, I concur wholeheartedly with those who recommend dropping mental toughness for empower. It is an absolute no brainer. Make that change and this build is totally fine.

V

[Danmor]

What Junts said.

Taking a least dragonmark to get the effect of a clicky is an utter waste. Just do Korthos and collect some exp. retreat clickies. Then go and do Chrono until you have the goggles. Much easier, much less cost.

Every cleric should know that there exist pots for curse, poison, lesser resto and remove disease. They conserve sp and spell slots.

Every cleric can melee at low levels.

Every cleric should be prepared to let people die if they run too far away.

Every cleric should be aware of the power of offensive spells.

[Nerate_Mireth]

Not sure if this has been said, but some good advice:

In groups, especially in raids, learn how to use the F-Keys for healing. It goes alot smoother than trying to click on someone or their name.

Also, Cleric's need to be good at multi-tasking. It can sometimes make the difference between success and a party wipe.

[Flavilandile]

Ok, here are my two cents.
I'll do it undear each relevant part quoted :

• If you have a one-to-two sentence tip or advice for newbie clerics, do share. We'll have an "Every cleric should know ..." section at the beginning of the guide where we'll spotlight some helpful tips.

As a Cleric you are not a healbot, you have the ability to kill either by melee or with spells as well as the ability to heal, don't let yourself be cornered only in the heal part.

==Template: Classic Healing Cleric==

This template provides a path to creating a classic cleric – one that specializes in crowd control and healing. Know that while the classic-healing-cleric can be played solo, this build performs best with hirelings, or with fellow DDO players.

Clerics are really solo friendly, but having a target... erm, a drone, erm a hireling with you makes things even easier.
As for grouping, remember the above : don't limit yourself to the healbot job, you can do a lot more.

===Ability Point Buy===

Human is the racial choice with this template, both for their extra feat at level 1 and increased skill point gain. This template uses the 28 point build in DDO, if you've unlocked the 32 point build, consider using the extra 4 points for CON or STR.

• STR … 10
• DEX … 8
• CON … 14
• INT … 10
• WIS … 18
• CHA … 10

• Ability Point Buys: Every four levels put your ability point buy into Wisdom (WIS).

That looks decent. With a 32 pointer you put the other points in either Str or Cha.
( STR for more Melee orientation and Charisma for more Turns )

===Skills===

At character creation, max out Concentration and Diplomacy, then put two points into Tumble (netting you a 1.0 rank). Use the remaining two points on Jump. At each level-up, keep Concentration and Diplomacy maxed, using the remaining points to get Jump to rank 10. Once Jump is at rank 10, or while you're getting it to rank 10, show some love to the Balance skill.

Max Concentration, always. The rest will depend of what you want to do... but Jump and Balance are really useful.
IMHO the rest is just fluff, and unless you have points to waste ( with 10 Int you won't ).

===Feats===

We recommend that new players – and really, most players – take the Toughness feat at level one. Beyond this piece of advice, our feat selection for this template focuses on opening up later enhancements and beefing-up healing power in the levels beyond 10.

• 1) Toughness – Increases Hit Points (HP) at first level and provides additional HP for each new level, allowing a player to take the Racial Toughness enhancement. Taking Toughness results in such a significant HP boost that it's practically mandatory.

• 1) Empower Healing Spell – While this metamagic feat is active healing spells are 50% more effective, but consume 10 additional Spell Points (SP).

• 3) Extend Spell – While this metamagic feat is active, spells with durations last twice as long, but they consume 10 additional Spell Points (SP).

• 6) Quicken Spell – While this metamagic feat is active, spells cast twice as fast and cannot be interrupted by enemy attacks, but they consume 10 additional Spell Points (SP).

• 9) Maximize Spell – While this metamagic feat is active, damage (and healing!) spells deal double damage (and healing!), but they consume 25 additional Spell Points (SP).

• 12) Heighten Spell – While this metamagic feat is active, your spells are raised to the highest spell level your character can cast, making them more difficult to resist, but increasing their Spell Point (SP) cost.

• 15) Mental Toughness – Increases your maximum spell points by 10 at first level, and 5 Spell Points (SP) for each additional level.

• 18) Spell Penetration – Adds +2 to your caster level check for defeating spell resistance.

Oh dear.
I will agree on the Empower Healing, Extend and eventually on the Toughness Feats.
Skip the other metamagic feats, except maybe quicken if you are really fond of chain casting ( in melee condition ) mass heals. ( I live quite well in Epics without it )

A cleric is a feat Starved Class. That means you don't have many feats make them count.
I don't have any real suggestion on what to do with those feats, it's all going to depend on what you want to achieve : a more magic using oriented cleric will take some Mental Toughness and Spell Penetration, while a more melee oriented Cleric is going to take more Toughness, and some melee feats.

===Enhancements===

Because enhancements in DDO can be reset for an in-game fee this section of the classic healer template will offer suggestions, but not strict guidelines. There really isn't a secret when it comes to choosing the right enhancements. It's a matter of being economical and choosing enhancements that offer the most for their value.

Here's an example selection of some good cleric enhancements:

• Cleric Life Magic I (Grants a 10% increase to the effectiveness of your healing and negative energy spells.)

• Cleric Divine Vitality I (Activate this ability to restore 13 to 22 Spell Points (SP) to another character. Consumes a use of your turn undead ability.)

• Follower of the Sovereign Host (Grants a +1 bonus to hit with longswords, the favored weapon of the clergy of the Sovereign Host.) The longsword bonus is not generally very useful, but this enhancement is a prerequisite for Unyielding Sovereignty, which will be discussed in a bit.

• Cleric Wisdom I (Grants a +1 increase to your Wisdom score.)

• Racial Toughness I (Grants you 10 additional hit points if you have the Toughness feat.)

• Unyielding Sovereignty (Activate this ability to fully heal Hit Point (HP) damage done to an ally and remove several negative effects, restoring them to a completely healthy status.) Although Unyielding Sovereignty has a long cooldown, it can be a great “last resort” way to keep a high-hit-point ally alive, and remove most ailments!

Go for Radiant Servant II, that's a must have. It gives you a 1 minute 30 second healing aura that can be devoted/ardored. Thus you heal every tick ( 6 sec IIRC ) between 8 and 80 HP ( in area of effect ) around you. With a decent number of turn undead ( 17 for exemple, not a tough number to reach ) you can keep that on for more than 90 minutes...
Cleric Wisdom III ( the IV is too expensive ), and Energy of the Zealot IV are great things to have too.
The usual Toughness if you can take it is something worth it.