Update 11: The Range Pass

[Rakian_Knight]

I've been hearing a lot of people saying that Update 11 is going to be the ranged pass like how update 9 was the spell pass, so I wanted to put my thoughts out on the forums to hear what the community thinks of the ideas I have. However, this is a warning, this is going to be a longer thread because of what I see as the problem with ranged combat.

What I believe are the problems to ranged combat:

My major thoughts on this problem is that their are two major things holding back ranged combat. The first is the number of options available to people who want to make a ranged character while the second is the heavy requirements for ranged combat to make it effective. At the moment their is really only a single option for anyone wanting to make a ranged character. One way or another, you need to make it to Arcane Archer.

Basic ranged changes:

1) The first thing to go is Bow Strength. This feat is automatically granted to rangers but everyone else requires you to get feats that you don't need on something that is basically required. As a change to ranged combat, all bows (not crossbows) automatically allow you to add your strength modifier to damage. This reduces the number of feats required to make a ranged character as well as allow other non-ranged characters to use bows as a ranged back-up weapon that deals more then 1d10+5 for a capped character.

Added feats and feat changes:

*To make an effective ranged character it should require a total of three feats (Point Blank Shot, Rapid Shot, Manyshot) for single target DPS (the same number of feats required for the Two-Weapon Fighting or Two-Hand Fighting Lines.) However at the moment it requires two other feats (Bow Strength and Precise Shot with most taking Improved Precise Shot and Toughness as their other two feats.) Simply removing Bow Strength you have opened up a single feat for most to either take the Mental Toughness feat (to meet the requirements of Arcane Archers with Bard or Paladin for example.

1) Bow Strength is removed (stated above)
2) Many Shot is changed to a stance that works like the following as long as you don't move.

Maybe I'll find the post where I go through the idea in more detail, but here's a quick look at my idea for manyshot (at level 20, progression is included in the original post, but i don't have time or patience right now to go into more detail).

4 attack attack sequence, just like we have with combat bonuses, where moving resets the sequence.

1st attack - 1 arrow
2nd attack - 2 arrows (or double strike)
3rd - 3 arrows (or triple strike)
4th - 4 arrows (or quad strike)

start over.

This would mean, if an archer stood still for the full attack chain, their dps would be 250% what it would be when kiting (10 attacks instead of 4), with increasing benefits as you near the end of the chain. (Currently, with manyshot, assuming you use it when it comes off timer, you end up with about 166% 'standard' dps average. This change would up total dps by about 50%, assuming you totally give up mobility, which sounds about right to me from people's comments.)
This could be a toggle or a passive feat.

To my mind, while you can never know for sure, this basically uses mechanics already in-game, so shouldn't be too hard to implement.

It would still cap according to your base attack bonus (2 at +6, 3 at +11, 4 at +16.) For example if you had a level 12 ranger who used many shot their attack would go, 1 arrow, 1 arrow, 2 arrows, and 3 arrows because of their +12 base attack bonus. However this ranger would only gain this bonus while standing still, if he were to move it would go back to 1 arrow, 1 arrow, 1 arrow until he stopped moving. This would be an overall increase in DPS for a ranged character however, does make them more reliant on others to keep them from being over-run as well as make archer type characters able to rely more on the bow instead of Many-shot then two-weapon fighting until the timer is up.

3) Ranged Smite *New Feat*: Requires: the ability to Smite Evil; This feat allows you to make a smite attack at range. This would allow paladins to become ranged characters as well. This is a feat from pnp (Book of Exalted Deeds) that allows a Paladin to channel the Smite attempt into a single missile. If they smite is used on a missile with many only the damage from that first arrow is counted as a smite.
4) Rapid Shot: Requires: Point Blank Shot; This feat increases the speed of your ranged attacks by 10%.
5) Improved Rapid Shot *New Feat*: Requires: Manyshot, Rapid Shot, Point Blank Shot; This feat further increases the speed of your ranged attacked by another 10% (20% total).
6) Sunder: Sunder is changed to add a 25% fortification debuff in addition to the -4 armor class debuff. A fort. save (10+str. mod.) negates this effect. This debuff last for 30 seconds or until a new debuff is placed. The new debuff replaces the old one (they don't stack in other words.)
7) Improved Sunder: Requires: +4 Base Attack Power, Power Attack; This feat increases the power of your ability to damage armor. You place a -8 damage to armor class as well as a -50% fortification debuff on an enemy that fails a fort. save (DC=14+str. mod.) This trumps a normal Sunder as far as debuffs applied.
8) Ranged Pin *New Feat*: Requires: Base Attack Bonus +3, Point Blank Shot, and Precise Shot; This allows you to use a missile to pin down clothing or something else to trip an opponent at range. This allows a reflex save (DC=10+dex. mod) to avoid. The DC for Ranged Pin is increases with any bonuses that increases a normal trip attack.
9) Ranged Sunder *New Feat*: Requires: Base Attack Bonus +3, Point Blank Shot, and Precise Shot; This allows you to use a missile to damage armor creating a 30 second debuff of -4 to armor class and -25% fortification. Any bonuses that would increase Sunder also increase Ranged Sunder.

Prestige Enhancements and other Enhancements

Finish Rogue Mechanic and Ranger's Deepwood Sniper.

Rogue Mechanic II
Changes: The Smite Construct has two options, a normal melee smite (as it is) and a ranged option that can be used with ranged weapons like crossbows.

Rogue Mechanic III
Requires: Rogue Level 18, Points Spent, Tier 3 of Disable Device and Open Lock.
Additional Bonuses to trap skills, Great Crossbow Proficiency, All weapons on a vorpal strike .

Ranger Deepwood Sniper I
Changes: Doesn't Require weapon focus ranged, instead requires Precise Shot. Gain 1d6 sneak attack on ranged attacks.

Ranger Deepwood Sniper II
Requires: Ranger Level 12, Points Spent, Tier 2 hide and move silently enhancements. One of the following: Ranged Pin or Ranged Sunder
You sacrifice rate of fire for precision. You gain another d6 of sneak attack damage (2d6 sneak attack) on ranged attacks as well as increasing the range of your point blank shot and sneak attack by another 10 meters for a total of 35 meters. You also gain improved critical: ranged as a reflection of your dedication to accuracy.

Ranger Deepwood Sniper III
Requires: Ranger Level 18, Points Spent, Tier 3 Hide and Move Silently Enhancements, Improved Precise Shot.
You are a master sniper able to bring mighty blows in a single shot. You gain another d6 sneak attack (3d6 sneak attack) on ranged attack as well as increasing the range of you point blank shot and sneak attacks by another 10 meters for a total of 45 meters. You also gain an improved sniper shot ability.

Improved Sniper Shot
Cool down: 30 seconds
You take aim at vitals and gain a +8 to hit (and confirm crit.) as well as increasing the crit. range by 2 (after other crit. range increases) and crit. multiplier by 2 (x5 on longbow for example).

Paladin Capstone and other abilities that effect weapons
Now effect ranged attacks as well as melee.

Halfling Master Thrower PrE
I have all this in the link in my signature. I know it isn't on the list of planned PrE but all Halflings are getting at the moment for Racial PrE's are the Dragonmark Heir.

In conclusion, this creates more options for ranged combat users and more options to build for ranged combat. Fighters for example with the extra feats they get can become faster with ranged combat and become more support instead of straight DPS with tactical feats like Ranged Pin and Ranged Sunder. While other classes like paladin can use their key abilities to increase ranged damage with Ranged Smite and the smaller number of feats needed. Rangers will still be king with ranged combat however will have option of going Arcane Archer and rush through as many shots as they can or can go Deepwood Sniper and fire less but deal more powerful damage.

Hope you enjoy
~Rakian_Knight

[Meetch1972]

First pass read of the OP seems on the right track to me... detail is always up for negotiation/fine tuning.

Just one thing extra I'd say must be added:
* Fix the repeater bug. My flavour mechanic is gimp enough without missing 1/3rd or 2/3rds of possible DPS regularly with shots going missing. I know an attempt has already been made - please keep trying folks!

I hope devs already have something along these lines in mind, or better still in the works.

[lethargos]

Fix ranged attack speed

[Stillwaters]

Nice start and good way to fix manyshot

You forgot to add in monk KI bows working as KI WEAPONS (ie, add to ki total and possibly can utilise Ki abilities) if you have the ZEN ARCHERY feat, and shuriken also.

Nice Manyshot fix!!! (it bore repeating)

All ranged attack speed could use a 15% - 50% increase (depending who you ask)

Repeater bug was hinted at being fixed in U11 by Eladrin, as well as great xbows adding a knockdown effect (i think this stirred up the "ranged pass" idea)
I wouldnt mind having my 5 shot repeaters back
(chk the weapon closely - 2 bolts are still in waiting)


@DEVS
SPELL RANGED DAMAGE IS STILL RANGED DAMAGE!
If you can beef up the casters (and you DID)- the mentality of ranged is less dps because it is safer NO LONGER APPLIES!

[Asmodeus451]

some great ideas, only i would also add this:

Headshot: Weapon enhancement - Prefix

effect: A ranged weapon with this enhancement can instantly kill most kinds of creatures. On an attack roll of a natural 20 which is also confirmed as a critical hit, and if the enemy has 1000 or fewer HP, your projectile pierces the head of the enemy, killing it instantly.

There's no special animation shown on a successful vorpal. Aside from a blueish coloration that appears, the monster simply dies.

If the enemy has more than 1000 HP, or is otherwise immune to instant kills (e.g., red- or purple-named enemies) they instead take 100 points of bane damage.

(note, this is IDENTICAL to Vorpal, just a ranged version)

[Aliss7]

I'm not quite sold on changing manyshot to a stance, where one would have to stand still to "activate" it.

A common tactic for crowd control is activate manyshot and continuously align shots to IPS as many enemies as possible. With manyshot changed to a stance, DPS in this situation will be a lot worse. In fact, you've now enforced all ranged characters to stay still... boring. I like the current dynamism and movement of playing a ranged ranger in this situation and in general too, which I feel will be lost if manyshot was changed in this way.

[krud]

I'm not quite sold on changing manyshot to a stance, where one would have to stand still to "activate" it.

A common tactic for crowd control is activate manyshot and continuously align shots to IPS as many enemies as possible. With manyshot changed to a stance, DPS in this situation will be a lot worse. In fact, you've now enforced all ranged characters to stay still... boring. I like the current dynamism and movement of playing a ranged ranger in this situation and in general too, which I feel will be lost if manyshot was changed in this way.

How about removing the standing still requirement for Many Shot if you have the Shot on the Run feat?

[Thrudh]

I'm not quite sold on changing manyshot to a stance, where one would have to stand still to "activate" it.

A common tactic for crowd control is activate manyshot and continuously align shots to IPS as many enemies as possible. With manyshot changed to a stance, DPS in this situation will be a lot worse. In fact, you've now enforced all ranged characters to stay still... boring. I like the current dynamism and movement of playing a ranged ranger in this situation and in general too, which I feel will be lost if manyshot was changed in this way.

Exactly... I don't want to see manyshot changed, and I definitely don't want to have to stand still to use it... Being a skilled archer requires movement.

I LOVE 20 seconds of awesome burst DPS... I wouldn't want to trade that in... I'd rather have 20 seconds of massive DPS (great for many tactical situations) and 100 seconds of low DPS than 120 seconds of decent DPS.

I think it would be easier to just up normal rate of fire by 50% and/or change cool-down on manyshot to 80 seconds instead of 100 seconds.

[stupid123]

Your getting rangers hopes up, stop it!

[dunklezhan]

Great suggestions, for the most part. I especially like the CC-focussed pinning shot suggestion.

On this one:
"Improved Sniper Shot
Cool down: 30 seconds
You take aim at vitals and gain a +8 to hit (and confirm crit.) as well as increasing the crit. range by 2 (after other crit. range increases) and crit. multiplier by 2 (x5 on longbow for example). ."

I think I would rather see this be an alternative stance to many shot, only available to deepwood 3, granting Assassin like Vorpal strikes on sneak attacks when the ranger is stationary, but reducing attack speed by maybe 20% (and if manyshot is changed to a stance along with this, then they can't be used together, which is nice and neat). Passed saves means taking the now +3d6 sneak attack.

They're snipers. They ought to kill things!

[Chai]

Rate of fire is the only big issue.

Its less than half that of a melee who can use PA to amp up their damage.

[chyribdus]

I have little experience with most of the current ranged prestige classes, however, with the Mechanic PrE line, I believe that it needs a bit of updating to fit with what you already get. I think that, for a 3rd level, you should get a full fortification bypass on constructs based on knowledge of machinery rather than all vorpal strikes having the vorpal affect. It fits the prestige more accurately than just all weapons being treated as vorpal weapons. I love the idea of expanding current prestiges and adding more. I also personally dont like the idea of giving the great crossbow feat to mechanics. Getting both types of repeaters is plenty already. If you want to add a feat to Mech 3, lets try something a little more along these lines from whats existing.


Master Mechanic (Rogue Mechanic III)
Duration: Permenant
Cost: 2 Action Points
Action points spent Prerequisite: 66
Available to Rogue class level: 18
Requires: Rogue Mechanic II
Requires: Improved Open Lock IV
Requires: Improved Disable Device IV
Requires: Rogue Improved Trap Sense III

Your knowledge of mechanical devices is unparalleled. You have the ability to strike directly at the weakest part of any construct. You also have the ability to move around bypassing most of their sensors. This ability enables you to completely bypass all fortification on constructs. You gain greater construct bane with all weapons (stacks with greater construct bane on weapons and ammunition). With your knowledge of machines, you gain an additional +2 bonus to Disable Device, Open Lock, Search, Spot, and Repair skills. Traps you set have further improved saved DC's. In addition, you gain an additional +4 to saves against traps and 2 points of additional energy resistance against all elements. You gain 2 points of energy resistance against force.

+ Control Construct:
Cool Down: 1 minute
Your superior knowledge of machines allows you to create a control device for constructs. This has a save DC of 20 + rogue level + intelligence modifier. This ability acts as dominate monster. This uses one use of smite construct and 10 mechanical trap parts.

I chose to change the name of the final prestige enhancement because it fits better. At that point, you are a true master of machines.

[KoboldKiller]

I'd have to agree with upping the rate of fire and leaving many shot alone.

[Havok.cry]

Ranger Deepwood Sniper I
Changes: Doesn't Require weapon focus ranged, instead requires Precise Shot. Gain 1d6 sneak attack on ranged attacks.

Having a t1 pre require a feat that the class gets at lvl 12 seems a bit odd. I think it should require something the class doesnt get free would be a better idea. How about powershot... same as power attack only bows instead of melee. Add it into game and make it requirement for the pre.

[sacredguyver]

<snip>1) The first thing to go is Bow Strength. This feat is automatically granted to rangers but everyone else requires you to get feats that you don't need on something that is basically required. As a change to ranged combat, all bows (not crossbows) automatically allow you to add your strength modifier to damage. This reduces the number of feats required to make a ranged character as well as allow other non-ranged characters to use bows as a ranged back-up weapon that deals more then 1d10+5 for a capped character. <snip>

How about instead of all bows, excluding crossbows, allowing you to add your strength modifier to damage, it only be the composite bow, per 3.5 rules?

All composite bows are made with a particular strength rating (that is, each requires a minimum Strength modifier to use with proficiency). If your Strength bonus is less than the strength rating of the composite bow, you can’t effectively use it, so you take a –2 penalty on attacks with it. The default composite longbow requires a Strength modifier of +0 or higher to use with proficiency. A composite longbow can be made with a high strength rating (representing an especially heavy pull) to take advantage of an above-average Strength score; this feature allows you to add your Strength bonus to damage, up to the maximum bonus indicated for the bow. Each point of Strength bonus granted by the bow adds 100 gp to its cost. For instance, a composite longbow (+1 Str bonus) costs 200 gp, while a composite longbow (+4 Str bonus) costs 500 gp.

For example, Tordek has a +2 Strength bonus. With a regular composite longbow, he gets no modifier on damage rolls. For 200 gp, he can buy a composite longbow (+1 Str bonus), which lets him add +1 to his damage rolls. For 300 gp, he can buy one that lets him add his entire +2 Strength bonus. Even if he paid 400 gp for a composite longbow (+3 Str bonus), he would still get only a +2 bonus on damage rolls and takes a –2 penalty on attacks with it because his Strength is insufficient to use the weapon to best advantage. The bow can’t grant him a higher bonus than he already has.

Instead of having a new number on bows, however, it would go by the Enhancement bonus of the weapon. A +2 Paralyzing Composite Longbow of Pure Good would allow one to add an additional 2 points of damage if your STR mod is 2 or higher while an Epic Shatterbow would allow you to add up to 6 points of damage if you had a STR mod high enough.

[MartinusWyllt]

How about instead of all bows, excluding crossbows, allowing you to add your strength modifier to damage, it only be the composite bow, per 3.5 rules?.

Could maybe do this as a repeatable stone of change ritual, adding a +1 damage and an increase in minimum strength to use (by 2 each time) starting at min str. 12 for the 1st +1. Best have those restore pots handy, of course, in case you get weakened below the ability to draw your bow.

[wonkey]

Because the OP quoted my idea, but later in the thread he quoted, several people stated that they don't want to lose the 20 second burst, I wanted to post my follow up tweak, as well as an earlier post where I discussed an idea for DWS 2 and 3:

While I'm posting on the topic, I wanted to provide a link to my ideas for DWS, even though I'm sure they have a pretty good idea where they're going with it by now...
http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php?t=291941


Anyway, when discussing ranged combat in the past, I've brought up, among other, more minor, points, 3 main points.

1. Manyshot change like I described here.
2. Changing X-bows so that shoot and reload are seperate actions. This seems like it's getting implemented, and I think that's absolutely great. This was a huge feature of xbows, historically, and hopefully we'll see the rise of builds with a whole bandolier of great xbows swapping them out in between shots for a burst of real solid damage.
3. An increase in damage close up. This is to counter the ability of ranged to kill things before they can close, allowing a more equitable damage range with melee without making it too OP.

Anyway, I definitely love the bursting nature of manyshot as is. But I'd want it to be a choice where you could trade burst dps for overall dps. So how about this:

Manyshot (stance) as mentioned before:

4 part attack sequence:
1 - 1 shot
2 - 2 shots
3 - 3 shots
4 - 4 shots
repeat

interrupted, like a normal attack sequence, by movement.

At BAB 6, its a 2 part sequence, 1,2, 1,2
At BAB 11 its a 3 part sequence, 1,2,3 1,2,3

Manyshot (active ability):

As it is currently. Except it pulls you out of stance, and puts a cooldown on the stance for 1 minute.

Since you gain 6 arrows in 4 shots from base to the stance, and 6 arrows in 4 shots from the stance to the active ability, this will mean a net loss in total dps, if you are fighting the whole time, if you activate the ability. But you might still want to in a situation where you need DPS RIGHT NOW!!!!

EDIT: ...or if you want to burst then drop the bow. Or if you refuse to stand still. Or if your fights are more scattered.

To update the above idea, 3 tiers for Deepwood (1st remains unchanged).

EDITed description: The idea is not to make ranged DPS comparable to melee DPS. I think that would be unbalanced, as ranged has certain advantages. This also isn't a real fix for ranged, as its only one PRE, but maybe its a step in the right direction. DWS, in this scheme, would also put out less sustained DPS than AA (which itself, should have either more non-DPS advantages or more DPS added) but makes up for that by having a very versatile set of skills. They have shots that won't draw agro of big groups, they can use bows or crossbows to good effect, and at different times as they suit the situation, and there's a focus on easier, or auto-crits, added to CC (and one DPS) enhancement, to be able to use weapon effects that proc on crits (and using ranged combat's advantage of having separate ammo and weapons) to best effect. They can also do a heavy sniper shot, and then drop the bow, and come in dual-wielding (which other ranged toons should often be doing anyway...)

Deepwood Sniper 1

* Usage: Passive

* Cost: 4 action points

* Spent: 16 action points

* Requires All of: Point Blank Shot, Weapon Focus: Ranged Weapons, Improved Hide II, Improved Move Silently II, Improved Spot II

* Available to Ranger class level 6

* Grants a +1 bonus to Hide, Move Silently, and Spot. Also grants the ability to take an aimed sniper shot with a bonus to hit, critical threat range, and critical threat multiplier.

This enhancement automatically grants the following:
Deepwood Sniper: Sniper Shot

* Usage: Active

* Cost: 0 action points

* Performs a ranged attack with a +4 bonus to hit, +2 to critical threat range, and +1 to critical threat multiplier.

Enhancements:

Open to Ranger level 9:

Sneaky Sniper Shot:
AP: 2
-Only works on Sniper Shots or Improved Sniper Shots performed from sneak and within 1.5
-When you hit a monster with a Sniper Shot or Improved Sniper Shot (but not Master's Shot), that monster will take damage normally, but will be bluffed rather than reacting as a monster normally does when damaged. All monsters in the vicinity also act as if your target was bluffed


Deepwood Sniper 2

* Usage: Passive

* Cost: 2 action points

* Spent: 42 action points

* Requires All of: Weapon Specialization: Ranged Weapons, Deepwood Sniper I
* Requires One of: Ranger Desert Lore II, Ranger Tundra Lore II, Ranger Swamp Lore II

* Available to Ranger class level 12

* Your mastery of the wilds and the bow has increased. Grants a +1 bonus to Hide, Move Silently, and Spot, and +2 to all elemental resists. Also grants the ability to take an improved sniper shot.

This enhancement automatically grants the following:

Improved Sniper Shot (active ability).
-initiates a cooldown on Sniper Shot when activated as if Sniper Shot were activated
-does not work if target is targetting you (like sneak attack, but works on constructs, undead, etc.)
-cooldown of 15s from end of shot
-generates 75% hate (before modifiers)
-when activated starts a timer of the same length as a bluff action. You cannot move or take any action during this timer, or the shot is wasted
- shot automatically crits, with a +2 to crit multiplier (after modifiers) and adds your dex bonus to damage (after multipliers)


Enhancements:

Each open to Ranger level 13:

Blinding Sniper Shot:
AP: 2
Your Improved Sniper Shot and Master's Shot blinds any enemy it damages. Only one "Sniper Shot" enhancement can be active at any time.
DC is 10 + ranger level + dex modifier

Stunning Sniper Shot:
AP: 2
Your Improved Sniper Shot and Master's Shot stuns any enemy it damages. Only one "Sniper Shot" enhancement can be active at any time.
DC is 10 + ranger level + dex modifier

Hamstringing Sniper Shot:
AP: 2
Your Improved Sniper Shot and Master's Shot hamstrings any enemy it damages. Only one "Sniper Shot" enhancement can be active at any time.
DC is 10 + ranger level + dex modifier

Bursting Sniper Shot:
AP: 2
Your bow gains the Elemental Burst ability when using Improved Sniper Shot or Master's Shot. You can only select one element for this ability at a time. Only one "Sniper Shot" enhancement can be active at any time.

Deepwood Sniper 3

* Usage: Passive

* Cost: 2 action points

* Spent: 66 action points

* Requires All of: Improved Hide III, Improved Move Silently III, Improved Spot III, Deepwood Sniper 2
*Requires One of: Ranger Desert Lore III, Ranger Tundra Lore III, Ranger Swamp Lore III,

* Available to Ranger class level 18

* Your mastery of the wilds and the bow has become legendary. You can strike out of the shadows with devastating effect. Grants a +1 bonus to Hide, Move Silently, and Spot, and brings your Deepwood bonus to elemental resists to +4. Also grants the ability to take a Master's Shot.

This enhancement automatically grants the following:


Master's Shot:

- Use of this ability initiates a cooldown for Manyshot, and double the regular cooldown for Sniper Shot, and Improved Sniper Shot. Manyshot initiates a cooldown of this ability.
- Cannot be activated when you have the agro of any enemy (but once activated, doesn't get interrupted by gaining agro)
- cooldown is 2 minutes
- moving or taking any other action other than attacking (or rotating) ends this effect
- generates 50% hate (before modifiers)
- Every shot for 20 seconds crits with a +2 to crit modifier. Your dex bonus is added to weapon damage (before modifiers)

EDIT: Lengthened cooldown for other Sniper Shots when using Master's Shot to be clear that they can't be combined. Changed Master's shot cooldown to 2 minutes, as I mistakenly thought Manyshot's cooldown was 3 minutes. Supposed to be option to use either/or

EDIT2: Changed enhancement requirements for elemental resists to be "one of" instead of "all of" for each tier. I wanted to add enhancements that aren't totally useful to match other PREs, but might have overdone it. and clarified the agro rule of tier 3

EDIT 3: Sneaky shot, better description, DC for enhancements

[Failedlegend]

Rogue Mechanic II
Changes: The Smite Construct has two options, a normal melee smite (as it is) and a ranged option that can be used with ranged weapons like crossbows.

Rogue Mechanic III
Requires: Rogue Level 18, Points Spent, Tier 3 of Disable Device and Open Lock.
Additional Bonuses to trap skills, Great Crossbow Proficiency, All weapons on a vorpal strike .

Here's a compilation of various ideas from various posters (including myself) I gathered together a while ago...its mostly for Mech but some of it can apply to bows as well.


Note: These suggestion are Pre-U9 so a bit out of date.

1. Traps need to actually pose a viable threat as opposed to a minor inconvenience

2. We need a reliable way to supply ourselves with ammo...possibly using trap parts...make unique bolts like web bolts (Should probably BtC) or make it so they aren't consumed when used (don't stack only need 1) but have durability like a ranged weapon

3. Trap Parts need to be more Readily available (In-Game) & Trapmaking in general needs an overhaul.

4. We need to keep the construct theme but actually make it useful (ie. Make it so all our weapons are construct/living construct bane...each tier gets better)

5. We need need some other minor bonuses to round out the pre (on top of the trap stuff) ie. +2 UMD, to-hit bonuses, etc.

6. Fix enhancements, equipment,etc. to actually work with ranged especially aggro reducers (frankly ranged should naturally cause less hate generation)

7. Fix bugs, disappearing shots, haste not working right,etc.

8. Increase clip size for repeaters to 5~8ish (maybe Tier 1 = 4 Bolts, Tier 2 = 6 Bolts, Tier 3 = 7 or 8 Bolts)

9. Possibly gain some Construct bonuses (or for WF Mechs make it additive so instead of a base +25% make it +50% and instead of being immune to poison make him actually regen hp from it or something)

10. A Base Speed increase to reload and/or firing speed with each tier (for both mech and DWS)

11. Int to AC (similar to monk wis to AC except with need to hold a ranged weapon)

12. Mechanics can sneak/crit constructs, ignoring part or all of fortification.

13. Reduce the search and disarm time on traps at each tier of Mechanic. Make search/disarm instant for Tier III. (also make it slightly faster with every level of vanilla rogue but mech has huge difference)

14. Be able to save against traps on a 1 (IOW no critical fail)

15. DR against ranged weapons (bow,xbow,thrown daggers,etc.)

16. Give Mechs a Construct pet that starts off Small at Tier 1, than medium at tier 2 and Large at tier 3. The bigger it is the more threat it creates and the more damage it does (I'll leave the exact numbers to experts/devs) when you take the enhancement you should be able to choose what type (Bipedal, Quadruped,Flying) each with its own strengths and weaknesses. Give it a control system similar to Hirelings (add its hp just at the top left of the bar) except it doesn't take a party slot. Maybe make is so you can use repair o it to heal it a bit (repair kit unneeded at tier 2)



Also here's something cool from Eladrin for fellow Mechs in the unlikely even you missed it

I can talk a little about that...

I've completely rescripted crossbows and repeating crossbows for Update 11. The desynchronization issues that have plagued repeaters should be a thing of the past.

We've changed their use behavior a bit though - crossbow use will been broken apart into two actions: Fire, and Reload. This lets you load a crossbow, run around with it, fire off a quick opening shot when you see a monster, and then immediately start casting spells (if applicable) or switch to a different weapon, instead of having to wait for the reload animation to complete. The "attack" button handles both of these. (Click to attack, then click to reload. If you hold the mouse button down or use autoattack, it should smoothly go from one to the other.)

Repeating Crossbows will always fire their three round burst with a single "attack" action. Click! Thunk-thunk-thunk. Click! Reload. As before, repeating crossbows function as regular crossbows in the hands of a non-proficient user.

Rapid Reload is now also significantly more noticeable.

Great Crossbows (in the hands of a proficient user) now knock most opponents over on a confirmed natural 20, no save.

Lastly here's a class I discovered when mucking around on the net and the Mech prestige could take some cool stuff from it (or if they redo the trapmaking system)

Gadgeteer

[Uska]

I'm not quite sold on changing manyshot to a stance, where one would have to stand still to "activate" it.

A common tactic for crowd control is activate manyshot and continuously align shots to IPS as many enemies as possible. With manyshot changed to a stance, DPS in this situation will be a lot worse. In fact, you've now enforced all ranged characters to stay still... boring. I like the current dynamism and movement of playing a ranged ranger in this situation and in general too, which I feel will be lost if manyshot was changed in this way.

making rangers stand still woul help one thing idiots running all over and having the mobs chase them so the melees and casters have a hell of a time killing them. Rangers running like chickens with their heads cutoff only extends the time to kill the mobs and while I know many shot can kill a lot fast its annoying when the ranger wont stand still

[wiglin]

Well I have every thread posted on this subject. Lots of ideas, some are overly complicated. I am going to echo what I wrote earlier in the many shot thread.

First lets look at the progression of archery in ddo.

Beta (pre-headstart):
I didn't play in the closed beta, but friends who did said archery was actually really powerful and did more dps then melee. The level cap was 10 though and really back when finding a +3 Holy Greataxe was one of the best weapons in the game, it would not be hard to out dps melee.

Open Beta - Mod 3ish:
Archery was really bad. You could not reload while running unless you took shot on the run. Archery did not have a progressive attack bonus. So your base attack bonus was your to hit.

1st Ranged Combat Pass Around Mod3ish:
You could now reload while moving without the shot on the run feat, but you took a -4 to hit while moving. The level cap was raised to 12 and PS and IPS were introduced.

Sometime Later:
Ranged Combat received its progressive attack bonus while standing still.

Sometime Later:
Several more changes later and AA were introduced and then slaying arrows.

Currently:
Ranged Combat is alot better then it used to be, but still in need of a substantial boost.

First I want to address one of the arguments against a ranged combat fix.

Comment: Ranged Combat puts you out of melee ranged so you should do less damage. If archery did too much dps no one would play a melee.

Rebuttal: People will always play the style they enjoy. Its why people use archery now. They enjoy the style. People who enjoy melee characters will not auto switch to archery if there was a dps increase. Currently we have mobs that teleport which eliminate the out of melee advantage. During many raid scenarios the tactics revolves around one person in front of the mob with everyone else behind the mob with mass heals taking care of the damage. The benefit of being out of melee range is a moot point for the majority of end game.

As I have said in many other threads and I will mention again. Rangers as a class are a specialist. They need multiple tools to bring to the table. Turbine believes this as they give rangers twf and archery feats for free. I would also like to see their CC options increased, through adjusting the DC's on snare or adding a pinning shot type ability to deepwood sniper, as I mentioned in my PrE overhaul.

As for ranged combat itself, we do not need a complicated overhaul. Many shot in its current form works great. In ddo it does not to be a stance, have a lower timer, or any other changes made. Manyshot is a valuable tool used by tempest rangers, and anything that removes its use as a valuable tool to non archery focused rangers is a bad idea.

The idea of adding an additional arrow as your attack bonus increases was a great idea. Not for a manyshot change, but to ranged combat itself. This would give an opportunity to buff the shot on the run feat. Currently no one takes the feat. The pre-requisites are too steep for very little reward. Here is a simple fix that would really help ranged combat.

*Manyshot stays the same, with no adjustments.

*As your attack bonus progresses in the attack chain you add an additional arrow to the attack. This means while you are moving your attack bonus does not progress, so you would not get the extra arrows.

You have 4 attacks in the chain. While standing still each attack gains the progressive attack bonus increase and an additional arrow for a total of 4 arrows in the 4th attack. If you move while attacking your attack bonus does not progress, so no additional arrows are fired. This does not stack with manyshot and when manyshot is active it overrides the extra arrow bonuses giving you your full 4 arrows for those 20 seconds. Many shot will continue to work as is while moving.

*Shot on the Run can now be chosen as a feat with its steep pre-requisites and since it allows you to keep your progressive attack bonus in the chain while moving, it will also allow the extra arrows in the attack chain.

Something along these lines will help archery as a whole, it will not effect melee rangers who still use manyshot, and allow for those who want to excel in archery to use the feats and get a dps increase while maintaining their mobility.

Rate of fire will probably never see an increase. Again I bring up the comment Codog made about the game engine having a limitation on how fast the rate for fire could be. He said significant boost to rate of fire on the player side was not really possible. It had something to do with each arrow being created as an actual projectile in the game. Giving 1 arrow the damage of 2/3/4 arrows as mentioned in the attack chain increase above would give archery a dps boost that does not change the rate of fire. Now if the game engine has been adjusted this may no longer apply, and since codog is no longer with turbine we may never know.