+3 Tome on Normal Raid

[Arkat]

Just for conversation. The mechanic that allows them to drop on hard/elite vod and hound contradicts that statement. Intuitively that would seem to work off of quest level and thus be influenced by a loot gem and/or bonus loot weekend.

Agreed.

[Arkat]

Link please.




I wouldn't know as I've never used them but thanks for the knowledge.

Neg rep for that? Really?

[nolaureltree000]

+3s are. They are considered raid loot for the specific raids that they drop out of, and are treated the same way, i.e. unaffected by loot weekends.

all raid loot but +3 tomes drop on normal. wouldnt that indicate that a certain loot table level needs to be attained to get +3 tomes to drop? im pretty sure that the last time that a thread like this was made (that i saw atleast) was during a loot weekend.

regardless, without a statement from the devs, this thread cant serve as proof. without someone pulling a +3 tome on normal on a non-loot event, its just speculation.

[Elation]

+3 bound tomes Drop on reavers fate on normal, I have personally pulled and seen them pulled on normal they have been part of the loot table in there since its release. +1 loot week ends may effect the chest or chances but they are part of the standard table.

[Arkat]

all raid loot but +3 tomes drop on normal. wouldnt that indicate that a certain loot table level needs to be attained to get +3 tomes to drop? im pretty sure that the last time that a thread like this was made (that i saw atleast) was during a loot weekend.

regardless, without a statement from the devs, this thread cant serve as proof. without someone pulling a +3 tome on normal on a non-loot event, its just speculation.

Well said. +1

[kernal42]

Just for conversation. The mechanic that allows them to drop on hard/elite vod and hound contradicts that statement. Intuitively that would seem to work off of quest level and thus be influenced by a loot gem and/or bonus loot weekend.

Not really - if this were the case you would expect to see +3 tomes drop out of other chests that aren't raid warded chests. The fact that +3/4 tomes only drop out of raid warded chests indicates quite strongly that they are part of the unique loot lists for those raids - especially considering that raid level doesn't even make a difference: Reaver's Fate elite (level 16) drops +3 tomes, while Shroud (level 17-19) never drops tomes.

The strange mechanic of Vod/HoX is more consistent with loot tables which scale differently for different loot based on difficulty, as Crazyfruit says. This is supported by Sirgog's loot chance post, if you choose to believe it.

Cheers,
Kernal

[uthanak69]

Loot weekends/jewels have nothing to do with raid loot. Never have, probably never will.

And even if it did, it shows in the buff and I didn't see that 'buff' up there.

[nolaureltree000]

Not really - if this were the case you would expect to see +3 tomes drop out of other chests that aren't raid warded chests. The fact that +3/4 tomes only drop out of raid warded chests indicates quite strongly that they are part of the unique loot lists for those raids - especially considering that raid level doesn't even make a difference: Reaver's Fate elite (level 16) drops +3 tomes, while Shroud (level 17-19) never drops tomes.

The strange mechanic of Vod/HoX is more consistent with loot tables which scale differently for different loot based on difficulty, as Crazyfruit says. This is supported by Sirgog's loot chance post, if you choose to believe it.

Cheers,
Kernal

its possible that there are unique loot tables for different raids.

[muffinlad]

Bit Rusty Tin Man remembers.....


+3 Tomes (bound) dropping from Reavers in the past IN PLACE OF Raid Loot that the individual would have received. Now, to be extra helpful, I do not recall if hardness mattered on any of it, or if it was a simple swap on the loot tables- So, you rolled that you got an item, then the item chart rolled, tome was selected, +3 tome was selected, type of tome.

Wow...that was totally unhelpful...but the +3 tome thing does strike a bell from the past.

muffinoilcan....oilcan......oilcan....

[stainer]

To be truthful, I can't get a +3 tome on a 20th completion, or at least it seems that way. The +3 tome mechanic is strange at the very least.

[Arkat]

its possible that there are unique loot tables for different raids.

I suppose that is possible.

[kernal42]

its possible that there are unique loot tables for different raids.

I don't understand your point. It's obvious that there are different unique loot tables for different raids - I wouldn't expect to get an SoS out of Reaver's Fate, for example.

-Kernal

[muffinlad]

To be truthful, I can't get a +3 tome on a 20th completion, or at least it seems that way. The +3 tome mechanic is strange at the very least.

I had 10 folks get 20, and 4 folks get 40, and my +3 tomes ran 50% (7 in total) for Pikers Fate. In the last year, I never take anyone past 20 anymore, regardless, before TRing, and usually TR before I even get close to 10.

I have seen some folks go 100+ just on one toon. No way I would do that...too ADD.

muffinheyletsridebikes.

[TheDjinnFor]

You guys, of course, realize what happened to the OP happened on a +1 loot weekend, right? He probably also had a loot jewel running.

I have only ever seen +3 Tomes drop in Reaver's Fate on Elite.

http://ddowiki.com/page/User:Yoko5000/Raid_drop_rates

[nolaureltree000]

I don't understand your point. It's obvious that there are different unique loot tables for different raids - I wouldn't expect to get an SoS out of Reaver's Fate, for example.

-Kernal

my only point is that its just speculation as to whether or not +3 tomes are considered raid loot or are part of the general loot tables and thereby subject to loot events and loot gems. if there are different randomly generated loot tables for different raids (and +3 tomes are a part of the random loot tables) then it would explain how +3 tomes drop on reavers elite (level 16) and not on shroud normal (level 17) and its not proof of them being considered raid loot.

i feel like i worded that a bit confusingly, but i dont know how else to state it.

[kernal42]

You guys, of course, realize what happened to the OP happened on a +1 loot weekend, right? He probably also had a loot jewel running.

I have only ever seen +3 Tomes drop in Reaver's Fate on Elite.

Also, FWIW, you're likely subject to selection bias here. I know I hardly ever run Reaver's Fate on less than elite - usually about once per toon on normal at-level for exp, then many completions on elite.

It would not be surprising to me, then, that you have not seen +3 tomes drop on normal. It would also not be surprising to me if you said you'd never seen madstone boots or cloudburst drop on normal, either, just due to the small number of normal completions most players accrue.

Cheers,
Kernal

[Arkat]

http://ddowiki.com/page/User:Yoko5000/Raid_drop_rates

Oooh wow. Interesting.

Thanks!

+1

Also, FWIW, you're likely subject to selection bias here. I know I hardly ever run Reaver's Fate on less than elite - usually about once per toon on normal at-level for exp, then many completions on elite.

It would not be surprising to me, then, that you have not seen +3 tomes drop on normal. It would also not be surprising to me if you said you'd never seen madstone boots or cloudburst drop on normal, either, just due to the small number of normal completions most players accrue.

You may just have a point here.

[kernal42]

my only point is that its just speculation as to whether or not +3 tomes are considered raid loot or are part of the general loot tables and thereby subject to loot events and loot gems. if there are different randomly generated loot tables for different raids (and +3 tomes are a part of the random loot tables) then it would explain how +3 tomes drop on reavers elite (level 16) and not on shroud normal (level 17) and its not proof of them being considered raid loot.

i feel like i worded that a bit confusingly, but i dont know how else to state it.

Let me try and write down what I think you mean, and correct me if I do you injustice:
Each raid generates loot from three tables:
(1) Random loot tables, as normal. These are boosted by loot weekends/jewels etc.
(2) Special, named loot, with probabilities based only on the difficulty of the raid and not on loot boosts.
(3) Tomes (and maybe other loot) with probabilities that are affected by loot boosts.

This is certainly not an inconceivable setup, but I find it hard to believe. Occam's Razor backs me in my belief that raid loot is determined only by options (1) and (2), and that tomes are simply pieces of special, named loot subject to the rules of (2).

Cheers,
Kernal

[stainer]

I sent a PM to Flimsyfirewood, Eladrin, and MadFloyd to see if one of them would explain the mechanic to us.

[kernal42]

I sent a PM to Flimsyfirewood, Eladrin, and MadFloyd to see if one of them would explain the mechanic to us.

I was enjoying the pontification based upon idle speculation and minimal data present in this thread.

-1 for ruining my fun!

-Kernal

PS Not really.

PPS About the -1, I mean. I do enjoy discussions based purely on speculation.