I cant stand half-orcs.

[HallowedOne]

Boo, they are less charismatic and intelligent. They have to compensate by wielding big weapons and doing more melee damage, duh!

That should have been obvious by now!

[Kmnh]

The half-orc design was the work of a genius.

Raids and epics were much easier with a bucnh warforged melees. They had more HP, DR, immunity to hold spells/energy drain and sometimes good healing amp. That was the real overpowered melee race.

Now there is no chance for a WF to grab aggro from a twinked out half-orc, all the wow junk has switched over for MOAR DEEPS and people have too big egos to let a WF tank do his job.

[phillymiket]

I'm aware that Brute Fighting is a toggle, but thank you. Someone may infer from my statement before it is not.

My meaning was more to the point that if I build a toon to be survivable DPS, I might have less DPS, than say, "Max DPS HOrc Barb". And there are things that can be done to increase threat, but they work oh so much better if the other DPS in the party cooperate. For example, I could wear the Claw Set on my fighter to help my hate... but it doesn't help if Mr. Max DPS is wearing the same set, because it does maximize DPS.

I've read your post on the forums, I know you know about game basics and much, much more.

I was just pointing out that it is a toggle as a preface to saying that if the Horc is pulling agro then they aren't turning brute fighting off and removing hate gear and that I suspect that this is often on purpose.

I think we are making the same point, actually.

[TheDearLeader]

I've read your post on the forums, I know you know about game basics and much, much more.

I was just pointing out that it is a toggle as a preface to saying that if the Horc is pulling agro then they aren't turning brute fighting off and removing hate gear and that I suspect that this is often on purpose.

I think we are making the same point, actually.

Think so. Or close enough.

[NaturalHazard]

I do see too many that go min HP - min DR - min Healing Amp. Some of that is gear, some of that is build.

It does create an annoying situation. These same players also don't seem to have any way of threat reduction, so you're forced to use them as main tank, but they are more difficult to heal than other tanks. Or, rather, it forces other tanks to have a higher amount of aggro accumulation than they would need for other race/class combinations.

lol the funniest ones are the ones that wear threat gear, duel weild 2 epic brigands cutlesses, pull aggro off the tank, die, dont get are rezz then scream why they are not getting rezzed lol. I guess it didnt help when they where told when they got boss agro, stop swinging, block let the tank get aggro back. Didnt listen, so healer stopped healing, let him die, then didnt raise him.

[TheDearLeader]

lol the funniest ones are the ones that wear threat gear, duel weild 2 epic brigands cutlesses, pull aggro off the tank, die, dont get are rezz then scream why they are not getting rezzed lol. I guess it didnt help when they where told when they got boss agro, stop swinging, block let the tank get aggro back. Didnt listen, so healer stopped healing, let him die, then didnt raise him.

An appropriate reaction on the healer's part, for sure.

[Blank_Zero]

lol the funniest ones are the ones that wear threat gear, duel weild 2 epic brigands cutlesses, pull aggro off the tank, die, dont get are rezz then scream why they are not getting rezzed lol. I guess it didnt help when they where told when they got boss agro, stop swinging, block let the tank get aggro back. Didnt listen, so healer stopped healing, let him die, then didnt raise him.

Good!

[karnokvolrath]

People roll them and go max ****** dps and forget that they need a bit more than the absolute minimum hp...

This is the exact reason i still play WF, some people will yell gimp but i like having survivabilty options over full dps, thats me and no horc enchanchment can take it away

"you never go full ******" :P

[cdemeritt]

I can't stand H-orcs, not for the reasons listed... I think they are Ugly...

However, they are not as bad as H-Elves... (I've deleted 10 so far, based solely on their looks)

[DoctorWhofan]

I can't stand H-orcs, not for the reasons listed... I think they are Ugly...

However, they are not as bad as H-Elves... (I've deleted 10 so far, based solely on their looks)

Helves have tiny faces...I kept mine.

I did with horc what I did with WF, I made a cleric. female Horcs look better than males, much better, so she is a she.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

IMO, Dwarves and WF are much more survivable.

Half Orcs are the best.....when things go well. They kinda suck when they don't.

[Myriam]

Looks like a few people missed their "Detect Humor" skill check.

+1 for you

[stille_nacht]

I hate half-orcs.

I hate that they got, for no reason at all, three Warforged specific enhancements (Power Attack and Great Weapon and Brute Fighting). They would still be the best all around melee even without these, it's just overkill and adds insult to injury.
This makes essentially more sense and annoys me also, i suppose it was so turbine could sell it more

I hate that they trump all other fleshies when it comes to just about any possible melee build. They are the death of Dwarves save for flavor purposes.
Technically, niche 12 wizard builds who want more int may possibly want to be another race, but usually horc is still better, but then again, it used to be all WF, however, horc is just too far ahead

I hate that they have effectively no weaknesses. No healing penalty. No con penalty. No dex penalty for being absurdly oversized. Nothing.
this is annoying to me also, at least when WF melee was viewed as the awesome thing, they had the weakness of low incoming healing, and many people could and did make dwarves

I hate that they get free skill point. Classes with 1 innate Skill point should get 0 if they dont invest in INT. such as Fighters and Paladins. This should have been one of their weaknesses.
doesnt matter as much for me

I hate that they got barbarian specific strength enhancements where as other races do not have a class-specific damage increasing enhancement lines.
this would annoy me less if every race had class specific enhancement lines. but they dont.

I hate that they are so large. They should not be larger then full orcs. They should definitely not be larger than Warforged.
believe it or not, this is my main gripe about h-orcs. seriously? hulking figures bigger than full orcs, even bigger than WF? absolutely no reason to do it besides impressing kids into buying them

I hate that they get bonuses to all two-handed weapons. Should have been limited to Falchions. Every orc in the freggin' game carries a falchion. Why is a half-orc getting better Great Axe bonuses than a Dwarf ?
I am unsure of the lore behind this, though i dont remember any axe specialization in horc lore...
-
Take away their Warforged enhancments Powerattack, Great Weapon and Brute fighting. Give 1 Skill point classes their proper -int penalty. Give them a -2 dex penalty or shrink them down to size. They would still be the best DPS race in game. But I would hate them less because they would be balanced.
-
Now back to leveling my Half-Orc Barbarian.

+1, horcs have annoyed me for a while too.

another weird thing is the strange weapon scaling on horcs. Weapons scale much larger when equipped to horcs, which shouldnt happen.

[eulogy098]

HalfOrcs do better with Dwarven Waraxes than Dwarves do, without taking the feat. This makes me angry.

Half-Orcs are not like ligers. they are not sterile. they should not be larger then both humans and orcs. Nerf half orc size to human height and orc muscles. If they are sterile then it should be in the description and worked in as a penalty of some sort.

Power Attack makes sense for warforged. They are big so they hit hard. They only have three fingers so their grip is loose and they miss more. Half-Orcs do not have three fingers, and they aren't supposed to be as big as warforged. They should not have Warforged Power Attack. And they would still be the best melee dps without it. And it was a cheap, lazy way to develop an enhancement layout for a new race. I demand better work from turbine.

If half orcs get barbarian specific enhancements, then other races should get a class specific enhancement. This means class-required to obtain. Elf bow damage and halfling guile is not class required. these benefit all. Give warforged Paladin required Lord of Blade enhancement for Blade-Weapon damage. Give Dwarf Fighters AC or melee weapon attack bonus. Give halfling rogues assassinate DC. something. class required. Like HalfOrc Barbarian Power Rage.


You already sold all of the half orcs your going to sell. now is the expected time to nerf them. snap snap. get it over with.

[baddax]

Half-Orcs are not like ligers. they are not sterile. they should not be larger then both humans and orcs. If they are sterile then it should be in the description and worked in as a penalty of some sort.

Im not sure how having casual relations with multiple maidens and serving wenches without worring about the usual 18 year backlash is penalty of any sort. However it should be a standard PSA for horcs to make sure and wear a disease immunity item before any such endeavors!

[parvo]

I hate half-orcs.

I hate that they got, for no reason at all, three Warforged specific enhancements (Power Attack and Great Weapon and Brute Fighting). They would still be the best all around melee even without these, it's just overkill and adds insult to injury.

I hate that they trump all other fleshies when it comes to just about any possible melee build. They are the death of Dwarves save for flavor purposes.

I hate that they have effectively no weaknesses. No healing penalty. No con penalty. No dex penalty for being absurdly oversized. Nothing.

I hate that they get free skill point. Classes with 1 innate Skill point should get 0 if they dont invest in INT. such as Fighters and Paladins. This should have been one of their weaknesses.

I hate that they got barbarian specific strength enhancements where as other races do not have a class-specific damage increasing enhancement lines.

I hate that they are so large. They should not be larger then full orcs. They should definitely not be larger than Warforged.

I hate that they get bonuses to all two-handed weapons. Should have been limited to Falchions. Every orc in the freggin' game carries a falchion. Why is a half-orc getting better Great Axe bonuses than a Dwarf ?
-
Take away their Warforged enhancments Powerattack, Great Weapon and Brute fighting. Give 1 Skill point classes their proper -int penalty. Give them a -2 dex penalty or shrink them down to size. They would still be the best DPS race in game. But I would hate them less because they would be balanced.
-
Now back to leveling my Half-Orc Barbarian.

I agree. Orcs are not balanced.

[SirValentine]

I hate that they are so large. They should not be larger then full orcs. They should definitely not be larger than Warforged.

Cross-breeds being larger than either of their parents is pretty common in real-life biology.

I hate that they get bonuses to all two-handed weapons. Should have been limited to Falchions. Every orc in the freggin' game carries a falchion. Why is a half-orc getting better Great Axe bonuses than a Dwarf ?

That's the versatility of their Human half coming into play.

[Vellrad]

They are the death of Dwarves save for flavor purposes.

IDK, my dwarven wizard does pretty well

[DMCain]

I don't particularly care about the game mechanics of the HOrc, I just hate HOrc on general principle. Mainly from an old school PnP gamer viewpoint. Back in D&D and 1st ed AD&D, HOrcs were generally considered cannon fodder, to both orcs and humans and ostracized by both societies. And personally, I don't think they should have been made a player race in the PnP version, much less in DDO.

[joneb1999]

Give me Horcs over the Warforged abominations any day. Just because WF arent as supreme anymore doesnt mean other classes should suffer. Like I said PA and all the Horc benefits are because of their size which in DDO Eberron is bigger than Warforged apparently.

WF have been so overpowered for so long everyone just accepts it. Its time they were nerfed. I dont even know why they are affected by cure spells at all since these are for actual creatures with flesh, muscles, sinews, tissue and bones.