I cant stand half-orcs.

[eulogy098]

I hate half-orcs.

I hate that they got, for no reason at all, three Warforged specific enhancements (Power Attack and Great Weapon and Brute Fighting). They would still be the best all around melee even without these, it's just overkill and adds insult to injury.

I hate that they trump all other fleshies when it comes to just about any possible melee build. They are the death of Dwarves save for flavor purposes.

I hate that they have effectively no weaknesses. No healing penalty. No con penalty. No dex penalty for being absurdly oversized. Nothing.

I hate that they get free skill point. Classes with 1 innate Skill point should get 0 if they dont invest in INT. such as Fighters and Paladins. This should have been one of their weaknesses.

I hate that they got barbarian specific strength enhancements where as other races do not have a class-specific damage increasing enhancement lines.

I hate that they are so large. They should not be larger then full orcs. They should definitely not be larger than Warforged.

I hate that they get bonuses to all two-handed weapons. Should have been limited to Falchions. Every orc in the freggin' game carries a falchion. Why is a half-orc getting better Great Axe bonuses than a Dwarf ?
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Take away their Warforged enhancments Powerattack, Great Weapon and Brute fighting. Give 1 Skill point classes their proper -int penalty. Give them a -2 dex penalty or shrink them down to size. They would still be the best DPS race in game. But I would hate them less because they would be balanced.
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Now back to leveling my Half-Orc Barbarian.

[Impaqt]

ok, I know your just trolling, but I feel compelled to point out some errors....

I hate half-orcs.

I hate that they got, for no reason at all, three Warforged specific enhancements (Power Attack and Great Weapon and Brute Fighting). They would still be the best all around melee even without these, it's just overkill and adds insult to injury.

I hate that they trump all other fleshies when it comes to just about any possible melee build. They are the death of Dwarves save for flavor purposes.

I hate that they have effectively no weaknesses. No healing penalty. No con penalty. No dex penalty for being absurdly oversized. Nothing.

um, no. They have penalties to INT and CHR. they make poor casters.

I hate that they get free skill point. Classes with 1 innate Skill point should get 0 if they dont invest in INT. such as Fighters and Paladins. This should have been one of their weaknesses.

Free Skill Point? Are you saying they still get a skill point if they leave their INT at 6 on a 2/level class?

Regardless, Skill points are Class based. Not Racial. Only humans get a Bonus skill point.
[QUOTE]
maybe more later. ....

[Diyon]

I hate half-orcs.

I hate that they got, for no reason at all, three Warforged specific enhancements (Power Attack and Great Weapon and Brute Fighting). They would still be the best all around melee even without these, it's just overkill and adds insult to injury.
Meh these sort of make sense here.

I hate that they trump all other fleshies when it comes to just about any possible melee build. They are the death of Dwarves save for flavor purposes.
I do agree here, they are a little silly in being preferred this much.

I hate that they have effectively no weaknesses. No healing penalty. No con penalty. No dex penalty for being absurdly oversized. Nothing.
They have int and charisma penalties. It hurts skill points and UMD.

I hate that they get free skill point. Classes with 1 innate Skill point should get 0 if they dont invest in INT. such as Fighters and Paladins. This should have been one of their weaknesses.
Uhhhhh, since when do they get free skill points???????

I hate that they got barbarian specific strength enhancements where as other races do not have a class-specific damage increasing enhancement lines.
They are supposed to be strong. And other races have some class specific abilities.

I hate that they are so large. They should not be larger then full orcs. They should definitely not be larger than Warforged.
They should not be bigger than full orcs. Unless the explanation is that they are like ligers.

I hate that they get bonuses to all two-handed weapons. Should have been limited to Falchions. Every orc in the freggin' game carries a falchion. Why is a half-orc getting better Great Axe bonuses than a Dwarf ?
Eh.

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Take away their Warforged enhancments Powerattack, Great Weapon and Brute fighting. Give 1 Skill point classes their proper -int penalty. Give them a -2 dex penalty or shrink them down to size. They would still be the best DPS race in game. But I would hate them less because they would be balanced.
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Now back to leveling my Half-Orc Barbarian.

Comments in green.

[Chai]

I hate that they got barbarian specific strength enhancements where as other races do not have a class-specific damage increasing enhancement lines.

Yeah, if only there was some way for halflings to backstab for more damage, half elves to emulate a level 5 rogue in SA ability, or elves to shoot bows better than everyone else, or dwarves to be better tacticians than other fighters...

Oh wait.

I agree that half orcs are overpowered for melee classes, but they arent the best at everything.

[Blank_Zero]

From what I see, HOrcs make horrible horrible tanks.

People roll them and go max ****** dps and forget that they need a bit more than the absolute minimum hp...

If you wanna max dps at the cost of survivability, roll a HOrc.

[TheDearLeader]

From what I see, HOrcs make horrible horrible tanks.

People roll them and go max ****** dps and forget that they need a bit more than the absolute minimum hp...

If you wanna max dps at the cost of survivability, roll a HOrc.

I do see too many that go min HP - min DR - min Healing Amp. Some of that is gear, some of that is build.

It does create an annoying situation. These same players also don't seem to have any way of threat reduction, so you're forced to use them as main tank, but they are more difficult to heal than other tanks. Or, rather, it forces other tanks to have a higher amount of aggro accumulation than they would need for other race/class combinations.

[Crazyfruit]

I hate that they have effectively no weaknesses. No healing penalty. No con penalty. No dex penalty for being absurdly oversized. Nothing.

Being oversized is a penalty on its own. Ever tried running Coalescence Chamber, Dreams of Insanity or a few others on a TR3 Half Orc? Camera goes right through your head into the roof many times.

I consider their bonuses pretty much only suited towards THF melees a penalty. Some of us roleplay and pick other classes - I have a horc sorc for example.

... but I don't think there's many of us. My horc sorc is the only one I've ever seen.

[t0pazdrag0n]

and they're mother's ugly too!

Yeah I hate Half-orcs also. They seem pretty OP but I guess they have to be if you have to buy them.

If anyone is wondering I believe that when the op mentions "free skill points" I think he means when you have a s 6 int (-2 modifer) and take a class that only gets 2 skill points like fighter and 2-2=1 (because you get at least 1 point every level)

[Crazyfruit]

If anyone is wondering I believe that when the op mentions "free skill points" I think he means when you have a s 6 int (-2 modifer) and take a class that only gets 2 skill points like fighter and 2-2=1 (because you get at least 1 point every level)

Ah, I was confused about that.

[Blank_Zero]

I do see too many that go min HP - min DR - min Healing Amp. Some of that is gear, some of that is build.

It does create an annoying situation. These same players also don't seem to have any way of threat reduction, so you're forced to use them as main tank, but they are more difficult to heal than other tanks. Or, rather, it forces other tanks to have a higher amount of aggro accumulation than they would need for other race/class combinations.

this.

I was a HOrc on my main her second life. Now she is warforge and I wouldn't change a thing. I can pull aggro off any stinking HOrc...... But because wf have heal amp issues, I get to hold aggro on sullo instead :/

[phillymiket]

It does create an annoying situation. These same players also don't seem to have any way of threat reduction, so you're forced to use them as main tank, but they are more difficult to heal than other tanks. Or, rather, it forces other tanks to have a higher amount of aggro accumulation than they would need for other race/class combinations.

Horcs can toggle brute fighting off if they are not tanking. That does the trick usually. If it doesn't then the tank maybe shouldn't be the tank.

I just think some people like to pull agro away from the tank.
It makes them feel manly (or orcly) I guess.
"Whoops! Did I pull agro? Sorry my uberness is just so uber. Sorry"

[Arkat]

Looks like a few people missed their "Detect Humor" skill check.

[joneb1999]

EDITED

When they nerf WF they can nerf Horcs. Im sick of hearing bragging about WF FVS can do this better and WF Sorceror can do that better. I dont read much about horcs anyway as much. LoL its unbelievable to me anyone can say Horc are better than WF when WF get all these things pa, greater weapons, brute force PLUS the immunities and amazing DR as well as this. The latter two abilities are why WF have a healing/cure problem. This and the fact they are not fleshies.

It adds up that since Horcs are a big strength enhanced flesh race, they should have "size" based bonuses for power attack, greater weapons, brute strength and all those other abilities they get but no immunities, no innate DR and no healing penalty. Also these "sized" based abilities are not WF specific abilities obviously or horcs wouldnt have them. LoL If these abilities were first introduced with WF Im confident this was because they were the first BIG race and now there is ANOTHER BIG race.

Risking great negative rep I would say the OP is just trying to make some fire here.

[Arkat]

Risking great negative rep I would say the OP is just trying to make some fire here.

No, he was trying to be funny but almost everyone (except me) missed that fact.

[TheDearLeader]

Horcs can toggle brute fighting off if they are not tanking. That does the trick usually. If it doesn't then the tank maybe shouldn't be the tank.

I just think some people like to pull agro away from the tank.
It makes them feel manly (or orcly) I guess.
"Whoops! Did I pull agro? Sorry my uberness is just so uber. Sorry"

I'm aware that Brute Fighting is a toggle, but thank you. Someone may infer from my statement before it is not.

My meaning was more to the point that if I build a toon to be survivable DPS, I might have less DPS, than say, "Max DPS HOrc Barb". And there are things that can be done to increase threat, but they work oh so much better if the other DPS in the party cooperate. For example, I could wear the Claw Set on my fighter to help my hate... but it doesn't help if Mr. Max DPS is wearing the same set, because it does maximize DPS.

I didn't mean to turn it into a thread about tanking, and hate, and how one should manage both. I more meant that there are *some* HOrcs out there right now that, by going full-****** max DPS, make it difficult to select another tank, but really don't bring much to the table that will make healers happy.

[Blank_Zero]

When they nerf wf the can nerf horcs. Im sick of hearing bragging about WF FVS can do this better and WF Sorceror can do that better. I dont read much about horcs anyway as much. LoL its unbelievable to me anyone can say Horc are better than WF when WF get all these things and the immunities and amazing DR as well as this. This is why WF have a healing/cure problem. This and the fact they are not fleshies.

It adds up that since Horcs are a big strength enhanced flesh race, they should have "size" based bonuses for power attack, greater weapons, brute strength and all those other abilities they get but no immunities, innate DR and no healing penalty. Also these "sized" based abilities are not WF specific abilities obviously or horcs wouldnt have them. LoL If these enhancements which are essentially to damage abilities were first introduced with WF Im confident this was because they were the first BIG race and now there is another big race.

Risking great negative rep I would say the OP is just trying to make some fire here.

Wf don't have inate DR. You have to take either a feat or the enhancements. Otherwise, pretty spot on.

[Crazyfruit]

No, he was trying to be funny but almost everyone (except me) missed that fact.

Nah, the last line made it obvious

Sometimes it's amusing to take stuff seriously.

[Arkat]

Nah, the last line made it obvious

Sometimes it's amusing to take stuff seriously.

I'm betting most everyone in this thread got too fired up and backside-hurt to read the last line.

[joneb1999]

Nah, the last line made it obvious

Sometimes it's amusing to take stuff seriously.

Yeh it has humour but that doesnt mean he isnt trying to make a point using that humour and not necessarily irony or sarcasm. Actually the last line to me was him saying he wasnt being prejudiced as he has a horc.

[phillymiket]

Looks like a few people missed their "Detect Humor" skill check.