I cant stand half-orcs.

[eulogy098]

I hate half-orcs.

I hate that they got, for no reason at all, three Warforged specific enhancements (Power Attack and Great Weapon and Brute Fighting). They would still be the best all around melee even without these, it's just overkill and adds insult to injury.

I hate that they trump all other fleshies when it comes to just about any possible melee build. They are the death of Dwarves save for flavor purposes.

I hate that they have effectively no weaknesses. No healing penalty. No con penalty. No dex penalty for being absurdly oversized. Nothing.

I hate that they get free skill point. Classes with 1 innate Skill point should get 0 if they dont invest in INT. such as Fighters and Paladins. This should have been one of their weaknesses.

I hate that they got barbarian specific strength enhancements where as other races do not have a class-specific damage increasing enhancement lines.

I hate that they are so large. They should not be larger then full orcs. They should definitely not be larger than Warforged.

I hate that they get bonuses to all two-handed weapons. Should have been limited to Falchions. Every orc in the freggin' game carries a falchion. Why is a half-orc getting better Great Axe bonuses than a Dwarf ?
-
Take away their Warforged enhancments Powerattack, Great Weapon and Brute fighting. Give 1 Skill point classes their proper -int penalty. Give them a -2 dex penalty or shrink them down to size. They would still be the best DPS race in game. But I would hate them less because they would be balanced.
-
Now back to leveling my Half-Orc Barbarian.

[Impaqt]

ok, I know your just trolling, but I feel compelled to point out some errors....

I hate half-orcs.

I hate that they got, for no reason at all, three Warforged specific enhancements (Power Attack and Great Weapon and Brute Fighting). They would still be the best all around melee even without these, it's just overkill and adds insult to injury.

I hate that they trump all other fleshies when it comes to just about any possible melee build. They are the death of Dwarves save for flavor purposes.

I hate that they have effectively no weaknesses. No healing penalty. No con penalty. No dex penalty for being absurdly oversized. Nothing.

um, no. They have penalties to INT and CHR. they make poor casters.

I hate that they get free skill point. Classes with 1 innate Skill point should get 0 if they dont invest in INT. such as Fighters and Paladins. This should have been one of their weaknesses.

Free Skill Point? Are you saying they still get a skill point if they leave their INT at 6 on a 2/level class?

Regardless, Skill points are Class based. Not Racial. Only humans get a Bonus skill point.
[QUOTE]
maybe more later. ....

[Diyon]

I hate half-orcs.

I hate that they got, for no reason at all, three Warforged specific enhancements (Power Attack and Great Weapon and Brute Fighting). They would still be the best all around melee even without these, it's just overkill and adds insult to injury.
Meh these sort of make sense here.

I hate that they trump all other fleshies when it comes to just about any possible melee build. They are the death of Dwarves save for flavor purposes.
I do agree here, they are a little silly in being preferred this much.

I hate that they have effectively no weaknesses. No healing penalty. No con penalty. No dex penalty for being absurdly oversized. Nothing.
They have int and charisma penalties. It hurts skill points and UMD.

I hate that they get free skill point. Classes with 1 innate Skill point should get 0 if they dont invest in INT. such as Fighters and Paladins. This should have been one of their weaknesses.
Uhhhhh, since when do they get free skill points???????

I hate that they got barbarian specific strength enhancements where as other races do not have a class-specific damage increasing enhancement lines.
They are supposed to be strong. And other races have some class specific abilities.

I hate that they are so large. They should not be larger then full orcs. They should definitely not be larger than Warforged.
They should not be bigger than full orcs. Unless the explanation is that they are like ligers.

I hate that they get bonuses to all two-handed weapons. Should have been limited to Falchions. Every orc in the freggin' game carries a falchion. Why is a half-orc getting better Great Axe bonuses than a Dwarf ?
Eh.

-
Take away their Warforged enhancments Powerattack, Great Weapon and Brute fighting. Give 1 Skill point classes their proper -int penalty. Give them a -2 dex penalty or shrink them down to size. They would still be the best DPS race in game. But I would hate them less because they would be balanced.
-
Now back to leveling my Half-Orc Barbarian.

Comments in green.

[Chai]

I hate that they got barbarian specific strength enhancements where as other races do not have a class-specific damage increasing enhancement lines.

Yeah, if only there was some way for halflings to backstab for more damage, half elves to emulate a level 5 rogue in SA ability, or elves to shoot bows better than everyone else, or dwarves to be better tacticians than other fighters...

Oh wait.

I agree that half orcs are overpowered for melee classes, but they arent the best at everything.

[Thrudh]

or dwarves to be better tacticians than other fighters...

I agree that half orcs are overpowered for melee classes, but they arent the best at everything.

Trouble is, tactics are based on STR, and since orcs have +4 STR compared to dwarves, that equals +2 tactics...

Dwarven tactics enhancement should be increased to +2, +4, +6 per enhancement. That change alone would bring dwarves back into the running for a melee build.

[grodon9999]

Dwarven tactics enhancement should be increased to +2, +4, +6 per enhancement. That change alone would bring dwarves back into the running for a melee build.

Oh hell yeah! That +2 doesn't cut it anymore.

[Blank_Zero]

From what I see, HOrcs make horrible horrible tanks.

People roll them and go max ****** dps and forget that they need a bit more than the absolute minimum hp...

If you wanna max dps at the cost of survivability, roll a HOrc.

[TheDearLeader]

From what I see, HOrcs make horrible horrible tanks.

People roll them and go max ****** dps and forget that they need a bit more than the absolute minimum hp...

If you wanna max dps at the cost of survivability, roll a HOrc.

I do see too many that go min HP - min DR - min Healing Amp. Some of that is gear, some of that is build.

It does create an annoying situation. These same players also don't seem to have any way of threat reduction, so you're forced to use them as main tank, but they are more difficult to heal than other tanks. Or, rather, it forces other tanks to have a higher amount of aggro accumulation than they would need for other race/class combinations.

[Blank_Zero]

I do see too many that go min HP - min DR - min Healing Amp. Some of that is gear, some of that is build.

It does create an annoying situation. These same players also don't seem to have any way of threat reduction, so you're forced to use them as main tank, but they are more difficult to heal than other tanks. Or, rather, it forces other tanks to have a higher amount of aggro accumulation than they would need for other race/class combinations.

this.

I was a HOrc on my main her second life. Now she is warforge and I wouldn't change a thing. I can pull aggro off any stinking HOrc...... But because wf have heal amp issues, I get to hold aggro on sullo instead :/

[phillymiket]

It does create an annoying situation. These same players also don't seem to have any way of threat reduction, so you're forced to use them as main tank, but they are more difficult to heal than other tanks. Or, rather, it forces other tanks to have a higher amount of aggro accumulation than they would need for other race/class combinations.

Horcs can toggle brute fighting off if they are not tanking. That does the trick usually. If it doesn't then the tank maybe shouldn't be the tank.

I just think some people like to pull agro away from the tank.
It makes them feel manly (or orcly) I guess.
"Whoops! Did I pull agro? Sorry my uberness is just so uber. Sorry"

[TheDearLeader]

Horcs can toggle brute fighting off if they are not tanking. That does the trick usually. If it doesn't then the tank maybe shouldn't be the tank.

I just think some people like to pull agro away from the tank.
It makes them feel manly (or orcly) I guess.
"Whoops! Did I pull agro? Sorry my uberness is just so uber. Sorry"

I'm aware that Brute Fighting is a toggle, but thank you. Someone may infer from my statement before it is not.

My meaning was more to the point that if I build a toon to be survivable DPS, I might have less DPS, than say, "Max DPS HOrc Barb". And there are things that can be done to increase threat, but they work oh so much better if the other DPS in the party cooperate. For example, I could wear the Claw Set on my fighter to help my hate... but it doesn't help if Mr. Max DPS is wearing the same set, because it does maximize DPS.

I didn't mean to turn it into a thread about tanking, and hate, and how one should manage both. I more meant that there are *some* HOrcs out there right now that, by going full-****** max DPS, make it difficult to select another tank, but really don't bring much to the table that will make healers happy.

[phillymiket]

I'm aware that Brute Fighting is a toggle, but thank you. Someone may infer from my statement before it is not.

My meaning was more to the point that if I build a toon to be survivable DPS, I might have less DPS, than say, "Max DPS HOrc Barb". And there are things that can be done to increase threat, but they work oh so much better if the other DPS in the party cooperate. For example, I could wear the Claw Set on my fighter to help my hate... but it doesn't help if Mr. Max DPS is wearing the same set, because it does maximize DPS.

I've read your post on the forums, I know you know about game basics and much, much more.

I was just pointing out that it is a toggle as a preface to saying that if the Horc is pulling agro then they aren't turning brute fighting off and removing hate gear and that I suspect that this is often on purpose.

I think we are making the same point, actually.

[NaturalHazard]

I do see too many that go min HP - min DR - min Healing Amp. Some of that is gear, some of that is build.

It does create an annoying situation. These same players also don't seem to have any way of threat reduction, so you're forced to use them as main tank, but they are more difficult to heal than other tanks. Or, rather, it forces other tanks to have a higher amount of aggro accumulation than they would need for other race/class combinations.

lol the funniest ones are the ones that wear threat gear, duel weild 2 epic brigands cutlesses, pull aggro off the tank, die, dont get are rezz then scream why they are not getting rezzed lol. I guess it didnt help when they where told when they got boss agro, stop swinging, block let the tank get aggro back. Didnt listen, so healer stopped healing, let him die, then didnt raise him.

[TheDearLeader]

lol the funniest ones are the ones that wear threat gear, duel weild 2 epic brigands cutlesses, pull aggro off the tank, die, dont get are rezz then scream why they are not getting rezzed lol. I guess it didnt help when they where told when they got boss agro, stop swinging, block let the tank get aggro back. Didnt listen, so healer stopped healing, let him die, then didnt raise him.

An appropriate reaction on the healer's part, for sure.

[Blank_Zero]

lol the funniest ones are the ones that wear threat gear, duel weild 2 epic brigands cutlesses, pull aggro off the tank, die, dont get are rezz then scream why they are not getting rezzed lol. I guess it didnt help when they where told when they got boss agro, stop swinging, block let the tank get aggro back. Didnt listen, so healer stopped healing, let him die, then didnt raise him.

Good!

[NaturalHazard]

Good!

just too bad we couldnt go take his soul stone to some lava somewhere and drop it in.

[karnokvolrath]

People roll them and go max ****** dps and forget that they need a bit more than the absolute minimum hp...

This is the exact reason i still play WF, some people will yell gimp but i like having survivabilty options over full dps, thats me and no horc enchanchment can take it away

"you never go full ******" :P

[NaturalHazard]

This is the exact reason i still play WF, some people will yell gimp but i like having survivabilty options over full dps, thats me and no horc enchanchment can take it away

"you never go full ******" :P

wow!!! warforged melee are gimp dps?

I feel sorry for us who play human/dwarf or even worse elf melees!!!

[die]

From what I see, HOrcs make horrible horrible tanks.

People roll them and go max ****** dps and forget that they need a bit more than the absolute minimum hp...

If you wanna max dps at the cost of survivability, roll a HOrc.

MMM.. COST of survuvability really?..my orc is sitting at over 700 hp and thats with out house d pots or and many other things i could use too get his hp up so .... well yea

[eulogy098]

From what I see, HOrcs make horrible horrible tanks.

People roll them and go max ****** dps and forget that they need a bit more than the absolute minimum hp...

If you wanna max dps at the cost of survivability, roll a HOrc.

Half orcs have no survival penalties at all, how are the horrible tanks? My barb as WF had 870 hp, my barb as half orc has now 830.