Gotta love the "all about me"

[Lycurgus]

what in the lvl 6 slot is so important that carrying recon is "harsh"? <snip>so really, given a spell that i listed above, recon, and disintegrate.what is so **** important that you can't fill multiple roles inside a raid?

I have it on high authority that update 11 will include a new level 6 spell: mass hjaste.

[furbyoats]

I have it on high authority that update 11 will include a new level 6 spell: mass hjaste.

but isnt haste already...i mean...but...die findoodle!

[Feralthyrtiaq]

I do use CAPS for emphasis...

I've been on both sides of this argument...

I feel for the person that gets declined because they are not "Raid Ready"....

I feel for the group that fails because someone is not "Raid Ready"....

I've felt bad getting declined with no rhyme, reason or cookie.

I've felt really bad that I didn't have Cloudkill on my sorceror...even though no one hassled me for not having it. I still felt like I wasn't CONTRIBUTING all I can for the GROUP. So I now scroll cast teleport...no biggy.

I've got sooooo POd that my Monks selfed buffed AC of 68 was like wearing a wet paper paper sack when I got to amarath. (Farmed hours to set up my DT) So thought, hmmmm guess doin all these quests in a GROUP would be best (and hope someone can cast Displacement/Haste cause my clickies don't last forever )

[Paleus]

I think this thread and the ones about haste are illustrating that many of the people crying "dont tell me how to play my toon" need to take their own advice. Dont want to carry haste or recon? Thats totally fine by me. Want to be in my group? Sorry, I can build my groups the way I want to build them and you might not get invited so accept that things go both ways. Think I'm stupid for how I build my groups, now you know what I think about someone who cant be bothered to contribute 5% of their spell list to group buffs. If you have a solo mentality be prepared to solo.

As far as the OP blacklisting the person, its kind of clear that it has a lot more to do with the sorc's sense of entitlement. I'm sorry but after being declined for an lfm, having it explained to you what the leader is looking for and not fitting the bill, then repeated tells are not going to get them to change their minds. It may in fact lead to a blacklist because they are tired of your sense of entitlement.

Think of it like trying to date someone. After the lady has explained to you nicely what she is looking for in a man, if you keep calling her at 2 in the morning and showing up at her house to show her pictures of what "she should really want in a man" not that stuff she explicitly told you, then take a guess at what might happen.

[furbyoats]

Think I'm stupid for how I build my groups, now you know what I think about someone who cant be bothered to contribute 5% of their spell list to group buffs. If you have a solo mentality be prepared to solo.

It's actually 3.125% for recon

6.5% if you dare expect the sorc to carry haste

HOW DARE YOU DICTATE SOMEONE ELSE's TOONS

/blatantsarcasm off

[KannyaAryien]

I like GH too much to scroll it and it's handy when ur facing monsters that Dispel as a caster level 20 spell is much harder to dispel than a caster level 11 spell.

I'm an Air Savant so I am not giving up Chain Lightning.

I do have Otiluke's to tho....so it's a pretty easy choice for me....that's the spell I would temporarily replace with Recon.

I went full Evocation which is why I chose Otiluke's over Disintegration.

I still do not agree with the mentality at all that Sorc's are expected to be WF'ed melee IV drips.

You don't have to agree with it. But be aware that if you're an arcane in high level raiding, you'll be expected to have recon when it matters.

And another thing, arcanes in my groups had better be self-sufficient. I don't watch your red bars and I'm sick of hearing "Hjeal me!!!!!" being shouted at me from a 250 hp wiz/sorc. No. Not happening.

[furbyoats]

<snip>...arcanes in my groups had better be self-sufficient. I don't watch your red bars and I'm sick of hearing "Hjeal me!!!!!" being shouted at me from a 250 hp wiz/sorc. No. Not happening.

this

there is no reason that a caster cannot be self healing at end game. this does not mean they will never get a heal, but they should be able to fix themselves up most of the time.

[Pfold]

i don't need you to show your huge e-peen

Lies. Toastee quickly accepted me in a group after I linked him my Enchantment Bracers of Charm Person. /flex

... go my route and bait them until they say something that worthy of getting them banned ...

Speaking of which, I have to find you another forum journal to read lewlz

[Argo112]

I went full Evocation which is why I chose Otiluke's over Disintegration.

Have fun in Abbot or soloing a base in ev6 ... dude.

[Lerincho]

You don't have to agree with it. But be aware that if you're an arcane in high level raiding, you'll be expected to have recon when it matters.

And another thing, arcanes in my groups had better be self-sufficient. I don't watch your red bars and I'm sick of hearing "Hjeal me!!!!!" being shouted at me from a 250 hp wiz/sorc. No. Not happening.

but she does have no problem riding in a backpack of a halfling because she was too busy playing god with her cleric and not watching HER own red bar. Always room for you

[KannyaAryien]

but she does have no problem riding in a backpack of a halfling because she was too busy playing god with her cleric and not watching HER own red bar. Always room for you

Only your backpack

[transtemporal]

.......but requiring a Sorc to have Recon as a learned spell is a bit harsh.

Whether it's harsh or not is beside the point. Recon or scroll mastery ranks was Seals requirement, if thats not acceptable then the sorc can simply decline to accept those terms, no big deal. Most raid leaders are actually open to a bit of negotiation if you phrase it right but just arguing with them doesn't get you anywhere.

[Postumus]

i could care less if you are a fleshy or a wf...carry recon

i don't need you to show your huge e-peen and do dps...i need someone to hold aggro so that the boss fight is organized, mmkay? that means being able to be a healer when needed.

It's more than enough to have recon scrolls, sorcs don't need to carry the spell. There's more than enough redundant healing that the scrolls should suffice in most situations.

[KannyaAryien]

It's more than enough to have recon scrolls, sorcs don't need to carry the spell. There's more than enough redundant healing that the scrolls should suffice in most situations.

You and I will agree to disagree on this point. Seems foolish to me to rely on scrolls when a single death can mean the end of the raid.

[ayspam]

so really, given a spell that i listed above, recon, and disintegrate.what is so **** important that you can't fill multiple roles inside a raid? you pigeon-hole yourself by not carrying recon. your hold/kill dc's aren't going to be on par with a wizard (yes they can get to a high dc, but i doubt anyone who has put that much time into a toon dumps recon) your dps has to be implemented very carefully to ensure stable aggro management....

I ve put a lot of time in mine, and no I do not carry recon. Since my instakill DCs are just a bit lower then a decked out wizards, I carry circle of death, disintegrate, otilukes. No space for recon, but on the other hand I can DPS and kill orthon trash, help scroll heal whoever needs it, so I do think I contribute.

I do have 3 tiers of scroll mastery, but primarily thats for my own benefit.

Got no problems getting in groups, with or without WF tank.

[DoctorWhofan]

I like GH too much to scroll it and it's handy when ur facing monsters that Dispel as a caster level 20 spell is much harder to dispel than a caster level 11 spell.

I'm an Air Savant so I am not giving up Chain Lightning.

I do have Otiluke's to tho....so it's a pretty easy choice for me....that's the spell I would temporarily replace with Recon.

I went full Evocation which is why I chose Otiluke's over Disintegration.

I still do not agree with the mentality at all that Sorc's are expected to be WF'ed melee IV drips.

^
This.

My Sorc DOES NOT carry any repair spells. I do have a mastery in scroll, just one AP. I do carry wands for them. BUT, there is not enough in parties to make a difference. I have NEVER BEEN TOLD that I had to carry Recon. ever. Been told to bring scrolls of it, which is cool.

[Faent]

Meh. The OP needs to run a specific kind of ToD run. He's counting on his WF tank since he doesn't have any AC tanks. So he needs healers. And so he can perfectly well decline any non-healers that apply to his LFM. This sorc couldn't function as a healer. If he had other DPS spots open, then bring the sorcerer in, but he didn't. Fair enough.

The expectation that a sorcerer should carry Reconstruct as a spell, however, is insane. There are a ton of highly useful level six spells. Flesh to Stone is one, and is very handy for dealing with Orthon trash. FtS, Distintegrate, and a Savant Spell (Otiluke's, say, or Chain Lightning) are fine choices for a Sorcerer. Mass Suggestion and Circle of Death are also potential alternatives. A Sorcerer absolutely does not need to build to be a healer. If they don't, they should happily stay out of groups that require an arcane healbot to complete.

A better way to tank Suulo is to use a proper AC hate or intimi tank. Then you don't have to gimp your DPS by assigning top DPS builds to the healbot role. The OP was not in a position to run with an ideal group setup, and so declining the Sorcerer was fine. But again, insisting that Sorcerers carry spells for healbotting? Puhlease.

[Sealsniper]

Wow, I guess when my Sorc finally get's boots I am only going to be able to run ToD without WF'ed tanking.

Seriously, I'll load up Remove Curse, Recon, and all the mass Repair Spells gladly on my Wizard.......but requiring a Sorc to have Recon as a learned spell is a bit harsh.

I guess if it's that hard to get into ToD without it I'll have to get my ring, hopefully Tome, and War Trophies and be done with that raid so I can ditch Reconstruct after I am.

I sympathize with the OP some tho, no means no.....a pugger wants to try and sell themselves on an off chance they will get in that's fine...they certainly have no right being demanding about it tho.

I probably would have spent the small amount of Plat and 1 enhancement point if I wanted into the group that badly.

Just to clarify, I never once stated he or any caster are "REQUIRED" to have recon, i stated that so it's not "all about me", it would be recommended to have either Recon spell (best case scenario) or spend at least 1 action pt to gain 25% increased function on scrolls/wands and in this case heals to help a party of 11 individuals complete a group raid. If you have neither, and I am looking for someone to assist (as i clearly stated to the individual in tells) in the healing process of part 3 of the run that i had wanted to run on hard setting, for individual to not fit the position of need. Then for him to come back and state that that was the job of the wizard in the party is 1 of a few issues i had with said individual.

[Sealsniper]

I see you drifting to the dark side of argo my long time friend........... come to us .......

Must resist....for now....

[Sealsniper]

I kinda understand. It puzzles me how many people in this game too desire to dictate how perfect strangers should perform on the tiniest detail. I can really understand giving suggestions, advice and declining someone who is a pest tho. But op states that tells where exchanged back and forth so the sorc in question could have interpreted it as screening, but who knows..

If I understand correctly the ad did not state reserved and op was searching for some pugs. Placing same expectations on pugs(strangers) and guildies/friends is imo problematic(/rude?) itself. Heavy screening is expected, but sometimes leads to severe frustration, which can result in rude, even untrue answers. It also sometimes leads to severe under-performing in case of acceptance due to low of morale.

Yes my LFM clearly stated reserved, sorting spots, be patient. It took a bit longer to fill our group this weekend because most were enjoying the 25% xp boost on lowbies.

Have you ever put together a raid yourself? Have you ever listed on that raid LFM reserved? How many people still click your LFM and fire off tell after tell after tell asking for or promoting their e-peen. If you have not done this, just test it a few times and then read your question above to yourself again.

As for placing some expecation on a pug or stranger to participate in a raid/run as /rude? your kidding right. Why should EVERYONE not be held accountible for role(s) in a run, otherwise why would I take them at all? Participate and help or don't come!