Easy Buttons............

[Asmodeus451]

Just have something to say that I've been holding back for awhile.

So-called Easy Buttons, do not exist.

the fact of the matter is, the majority (read: all) of players/posters i see complaining about easy buttons are Vets of the game.

Here's the thing guys, the simple fact is, the game hasn't gotten any easier, you've just gotten better at it.

I gaurantee that when you first started you didn't think that DDO was half as easy as you do now.

The major problem here is that Turbine has to balance the game between being hard enough to keep veteran/hardcore players happy and easy enough not to send new players running for the hills.

Unfortunately, the balance will ALWAYS be tilted towards attracting new players, as more players = more revenue.

Also would like to point out that alot of the so-called Easy buttons used by players are in fact Exploits, or are not currently WAI, and are thus exploits as well.

Other things are simply the way D&D works. Back in my PNP days, the job of every melee in the party was keeping the monsters away from the Casters and Healers. Whether or not we killed any monsters in the process was incidental. Party Dynamics are a part of D&D. But thats a dicussion for another thread.

Final Point: Its not that the game is getting easier, its that you're gettin better at it.

[edit: i fully expect to get neg rep for this post, undeserved as it will be]

[Maxallu]

So CC event equals Christmas button?

[SaneDitto]

I was never aware of the Big Top exploit. Huh.

Would the permanently unlocked shrines in Tear count as an "Easy button"?

[Crazyfruit]

I really wish I could fully agree with your post! I hope no one gives it a neg.

I have no problems with changes to make things more accessible to new players, as long as they don't ruin the fun for people who enjoy them as it is. Or many more people now find it fun who didn't before.

For examples:
Epics - I was one of the very few who liked the originals. I'm also quite insane. Around 1 in 50 people I grouped with liked them - so whatever they did to those a year ago to make them easier was a good change.

And now everyone can instantly damage every epic non-boss monster for half their health because they're better at the game. It seems like forum vets are incredibly bored by them. Are more people liking them now?

Or those super overpowered SLA abilities savants can use... most people seem to like them though! For me personally they made the game incredibly boring and removed almost all the challenge. I could even count how many shrines I used on an entire life. That could be because I'm better at the game than most of the casters who like them (which would agree with your post!), or they like dominating quests. I now no longer have a Sorcerer, and I prefer grouping without them.

Or those new DoT spells... /ramble

[Doomcrew]

Blindness, and curses, needed cures, not time lapse.
Ship buffs .......
Added(accessable) shrines (Tear/Signet)
No more XP debt
A magic item in most every slot before leaving Korthos.
Full health/mana regen on quest completion....( a real benefit in ongoing chains)


There are more, those are just off the top of my head.

[Fenrisulven6]

Air Ele gems with no min lvl

Greensteel on TRs at absurd min lvl

[Fenrisulven6]

Here's the thing guys, the simple fact is, the game hasn't gotten any easier, you've just gotten better at it.

While thats true that vets have gotten better, it does not apply here.

I'm so good that the only thing I need is auto-run? Doesn't follow.

[Fenrisulven6]

This, from another thread. Note the player is NOT a vet:

"One day I joined a Deleras Elite where everyone was around level 7-8. We started with a full group, but after the second quest it was down to a Wiz and Rog (me). I didn't think we'd be able to continue, I was struggling to put any numbers on the board at all, but the Wiz said it wouldn't be a problem and we continued... on elite... against my better judgement. It wasn't until everyone else had left that I saw how much damage the Wiz was doing, by himself it became abruptly obvious, he was doing most of the damage all along. I instantly saw that contrary to my previous opinion of casters, he was indeed quite powerful. Yet, he's dancing around in a robe, soon as he dies we're toast, and that'll probably be very soon. Except it wasn't, he never died. Never came close. I followed him through quest after quest doing little more than disabling traps while he proceeded to burn up anything and everything that stood between us and the quest completion.

Needless to say, I was quite intrigued by this. How was this possible? Was this guy just amazingly good at playing a caster? Did he have millions of plat worth of gear? I had to find out for myself, so knowing next to nothing about casters, I rolled a Sorc.

15 levels later I'm wondering why other classes even exist, much less why anyone would play them?"

[Ryiah]

Added(accessable) shrines (Tear/Signet)

Tear of Dhakaan is the one that comes to my mind the most when people discuss the game getting easier. I have done that quest both with and without rogues previous to the shrines being unlocked. As much as I still enjoy the quest, it lost virtually any challenge it once had for me. It is now pretty much reduced to something you speed run for quick experience. Only occasionally doing the optionals if you have a TR in the group.

[Doomcrew]

oh, and don't forget hirelings.

[Eleia]

Hey, thanks for clearing that up!!!

Now, take a deep breath, and repeat after me, "I'm in my happy place..."

Great!!

You rock!

You know, if it wasn't for you, we'd be in the dark about this.

+1 rep for the enlightenment.

[suitepotato]

I agree with the OP. Again, the people decrying easy buttons are ignoring that NEW players will not be able to use the things they speak of as effectively as vets. Hirelings an easy button? When their AI is less advanced than LISP code written 25 years ago? When they regularly do nothing but drink pots and get killed? Really? And magic items at Korthos for level 1 characters that is essentially worthless the moment it gets taken into Water Works? And will get you one-shotted on the very first quest in the Tangleroot chain? Easy button? Really?

Nonsense.

[Doomcrew]

I agree with the OP. Again, the people decrying easy buttons are ignoring that NEW players will not be able to use the things they speak of as effectively as vets. Hirelings an easy button? When their AI is less advanced than LISP code written 25 years ago? When they regularly do nothing but drink pots and get killed? Really? And magic items at Korthos for level 1 characters that is essentially worthless the moment it gets taken into Water Works? And will get you one-shotted on the very first quest in the Tangleroot chain? Easy button? Really?

Nonsense.

Hireling clr, while not as good as a PC clr, true ..... but a melee can go it alone with said
hireling. Stand and swing away with little regard for drinking pots because the hireling is there.
(at a small cost in relation to appropriate pot usage, which in itself is an "easy button"
)
There was a time when MW weapons were an upgrade for new untwinked toons.

Some folks are even wearing some of those Korthos items past level ten if the forums are to be
trusted. (to hit bonus anyone?)

[Doomcrew]

Sorry, another if you will, the "easy" setting, oops meant "casual" setting.

[Krago]

Removal of blanket immunities from mobs? even in epics!

[Gremmlynn]

Sorry, another if you will, the "easy" setting, oops meant "casual" setting.

The last I checked, nobody is ever forced to run quests on casual. So I don't see how that effects anyone's game who doesn't want it to.

[DoctorWhofan]

Just have something to say that I've been holding back for awhile.

So-called Easy Buttons, do not exist.

the fact of the matter is, the majority (read: all) of players/posters i see complaining about easy buttons are Vets of the game.

Here's the thing guys, the simple fact is, the game hasn't gotten any easier, you've just gotten better at it.

I gaurantee that when you first started you didn't think that DDO was half as easy as you do now.

The major problem here is that Turbine has to balance the game between being hard enough to keep veteran/hardcore players happy and easy enough not to send new players running for the hills.

Unfortunately, the balance will ALWAYS be tilted towards attracting new players, as more players = more revenue.

Also would like to point out that alot of the so-called Easy buttons used by players are in fact Exploits, or are not currently WAI, and are thus exploits as well.

Other things are simply the way D&D works. Back in my PNP days, the job of every melee in the party was keeping the monsters away from the Casters and Healers. Whether or not we killed any monsters in the process was incidental. Party Dynamics are a part of D&D. But thats a dicussion for another thread.

Final Point: Its not that the game is getting easier, its that you're gettin better at it.

[edit: i fully expect to get neg rep for this post, undeserved as it will be]

I am at two minds about this. I did Tear the other day and CRIED when I found out the shrines were unlocked. Where's the challenge?? I do understand about revenue and money and all that.


BUT... where do you draw the line? I think we vets are not mad about things being easy, but the fact the same things keep getting easier and easier...often for no reason. THe doors in Tear did not need to be unlocked. It made the quest a challenge and fun. Now, it is easy peasy. Now I don't wanna do it. there isn't challange fun part anymore. I mean, on normal and casual solo, the doors were unlocked, fine.

Elite, should be very hard, not easy breezy for two toons at quest level barely twinked with two hirelings (who spent most of the time in our backpacks) have little difficulty finishing. It takes the fun out of the game. And why can't us vets have fun, too?

[Kushiel]

I am at two minds about this. I did Tear the other day and CRIED when I found out the shrines were unlocked. Where's the challenge?? I do understand about revenue and money and all that.


BUT... where do you draw the line? I think we vets are not mad about things being easy, but the fact the same things keep getting easier and easier...often for no reason. THe doors in Tear did not need to be unlocked. It made the quest a challenge and fun. Now, it is easy peasy. Now I don't wanna do it. there isn't challange fun part anymore. I mean, on normal and casual solo, the doors were unlocked, fine.

Elite, should be very hard, not easy breezy for two toons at quest level barely twinked with two hirelings (who spent most of the time in our backpacks) have little difficulty finishing. It takes the fun out of the game. And why can't us vets have fun, too?

Like so many parts/pieces/places of the game - they are quite completely Optional to use. People have control - a great deal of control - over just how difficult they want to make their journey. ;-}

We have far less control over how easy we can make it. For how I want to simply *play* a *game* - I'd appreciate many more Optional [Easy] paths to XP and gear and fulfilling the desire to see my character advance [quickly - before I forget what I'm doing; easier - before anger and frustration carry me to utterances I'll surely regret... because later I can go ahead and make it as hard on myself as I'd like].

I've found far more enjoyment out of the [Easier] changes made to the world... for the way I most consistently play. I'm glad of it. I still see tons of builds/classes/races/people running around playing in ways that are different from mine.

What's been done is not mutually inclusive.

Or mutually exclusive.

Or partially comprehensive.

Or something....

[Memnir]

the fact of the matter is, the majority (read: all) of players/posters i see complaining about easy buttons are Vets of the game.

Vets are often the ones with the long-term perspective to know how the game has changed, for better and worse, over the years - perspective that newer players do not have. Do we get better over time, yes. But, there are things that used to be in the game that made the game harder that have been modified over time to make the game more palatable to a wider audience... and those tend to be the "easy buttons" most Vets find disagreeable. Not the exploits you brought up.


They do exist, one just needs to have a little perspective to see them clearly.

[diamabel]

Just to mention a few things:

1) After you leave a finished quest you're healed up and regain full spell points again.

2) Some of the debuffs are not permanent anymore (e.g. cause blindness, cause disease)

3) spell point costs have been lowered for quite some spells recently

4) Quests have been changed over time (e.g. Halls of Shan To Kor fire trap and end boss).