Ranger tanking suulo in tod?

[Rydin_Dirtay]

Nat the only thing you might try, is +Incite gear, like Epic Brigand's Cutlass. I know you are pierce specced though.

[Jaid314]

you might be able to afford losing a couple of points of armor to switch to dragontouch? depends on what buffs you have available in the group, i guess.

[Blank_Zero]

you might be able to afford losing a couple of points of armor to switch to dragontouch? depends on what buffs you have available in the group, i guess.

AC builds that sacrifice a few points of AC are like wizards intentionally gimping their INT.

[IBCROOTBEER]

As long as you're tanking normal, I don't think you'll have a problem dropping down to a 70-74 'ish AC. Its still good enough to tank in normal. I even tanked a hard VoD. My tempest uses about the same gear set-up that you described. Except I use Encrusted Ring and Knost's Belt for the damage boost. I am also a STR build ranger, so I don't have as muc AC from dex. I splashed 2 monk instead of the fighter so i can duel weild longswords and stay centered. (I know this may not be the best dps etc. etc. but its my flavor. and I do get the 1d6 of lightning from the monk strikes, but we're not here to discuss that.)

Only real suggestion I migiht make is that you TR sometime and boost yourself to a 34pt build. If you like staying finess, then stick to rapiers. But you might try a STR build with scimitars so that you can play with the Epic Cutlass. This will drop your AC a little to lose some dex, but you'll gain some DPS to help hold the aggro. It's all up to your flavor

[Blank_Zero]

As long as you're tanking normal, I don't think you'll have a problem dropping down to a 70-74 'ish AC. Its still good enough to tank in normal. I even tanked a hard VoD. My tempest uses about the same gear set-up that you described. Except I use Encrusted Ring and Knost's Belt for the damage boost. I am also a STR build ranger, so I don't have as muc AC from dex. I splashed 2 monk instead of the fighter so i can duel weild longswords and stay centered. (I know this may not be the best dps etc. etc. but its my flavor. and I do get the 1d6 of lightning from the monk strikes, but we're not here to discuss that.)

Only real suggestion I migiht make is that you TR sometime and boost yourself to a 34pt build. If you like staying finess, then stick to rapiers. But you might try a STR build with scimitars so that you can play with the Epic Cutlass. This will drop your AC a little to lose some dex, but you'll gain some DPS to help hold the aggro. It's all up to your flavor

Ravager is more dps than encrusted except on fb3 barbs and monks, and only because ravager doesn't work with unarmed sadly :/

[NaturalHazard]

As long as you're tanking normal, I don't think you'll have a problem dropping down to a 70-74 'ish AC. Its still good enough to tank in normal. I even tanked a hard VoD. My tempest uses about the same gear set-up that you described. Except I use Encrusted Ring and Knost's Belt for the damage boost. I am also a STR build ranger, so I don't have as muc AC from dex. I splashed 2 monk instead of the fighter so i can duel weild longswords and stay centered. (I know this may not be the best dps etc. etc. but its my flavor. and I do get the 1d6 of lightning from the monk strikes, but we're not here to discuss that.)

Only real suggestion I migiht make is that you TR sometime and boost yourself to a 34pt build. If you like staying finess, then stick to rapiers. But you might try a STR build with scimitars so that you can play with the Epic Cutlass. This will drop your AC a little to lose some dex, but you'll gain some DPS to help hold the aggro. It's all up to your flavor

i actually regret the finesse, my only investment to long term staying with rapiers is the 2 litIIs I crafted (so wish they could bring in greensteel deconstructing ) but i guess somewhere down the road im going to tr back into a ranger str based. Maybe by that time I can go scimitars and 2 wasted greensteel items wont be so bad.

[Faent]

Some advice:

(1) Stick with rapiers. You're fine. Min II's beat Lit II's on Hard/Elite.

(2) Min II's and +4 Holy Silver Lawful Outsider Banes are pretty much equivalent (assuming you have IC: Piercing).

(3) I'm having difficulty seeing how Natural's build could benefit from the Epic Siren's Set.

(4) You will want an AC of 85/86 for Hard ToD Suulo. Less will suffice with more pain. For a smooth run, you should hit this without counting on Recitation or a Paladin Buddy. Counting on Haste and Bard Songs is typically so-so, as you can deboot mid-fight for the Haste. If you have a bard, the bard should be able to keep the Suulo group up with you tanking. Then you can put two healers on the Horoth tanks (in a typical PUG, you have two), and one can assist with the Suulo group if needed. If you have a healer on the Suulo group, I suppose you can count on Recitation, but I don't like doing this. Healers typically do a poor job of maintaing that buff in this raid. It is much more ideal not to need Haste or Recitation to hit an AC of 85, and will make the run much smoother. Having to count on three different classes (a Healer, an Arcane and a Bard) to maintain your AC just makes for bad medicine. It will work in highly skilled and coordinated groups, but typically does not work in practice. And it makes you being the tank a serious mental drain on the group.

(5) Pull with Many Shot. That's the only time you should use Many Shot, if you have +4 Insight slotted on your weapons.

(6) You don't need Crystal Cove. Craft a DR Breaking Incite rapier. Holy or Holy Burst Silver of Incite. Your damage will drop, but your hate will rise. Do it if you can.

(7) The Hard fight is longer. The high DPS toons should give you a little time to secure aggro. Thirty seconds should suffice. One minute will be perfectly safe. Burn your Haste Boosts fast and early while Madstoning with Titan's Grip. You won't lose aggro in this situation, and it will go very smoothly provided you're maintaing an 85/86 AC.

[NaturalHazard]

Some advice:

(1) Stick with rapiers. You're fine. Min II's beat Lit II's on Hard/Elite.

(2) Min II's and +4 Holy Silver Lawful Outsider Banes are pretty much equivalent (assuming you have IC: Piercing).

(3) I'm having difficulty seeing how Natural's build could benefit from the Epic Siren's Set.

(4) You will want an AC of 85/86 for Hard ToD Suulo. Less will suffice with more pain. For a smooth run, you should hit this without counting on Recitation or a Paladin Buddy. Counting on Haste and Bard Songs is typically so-so, as you can deboot mid-fight for the Haste. If you have a bard, the bard should be able to keep the Suulo group up with you tanking. Then you can put two healers on the Horoth tanks (in a typical PUG, you have two), and one can assist with the Suulo group if needed. If you have a healer on the Suulo group, I suppose you can count on Recitation, but I don't like doing this. Healers typically do a poor job of maintaing that buff in this raid. It is much more ideal not to need Haste or Recitation to hit an AC of 85, and will make the run much smoother. Having to count on three different classes (a Healer, an Arcane and a Bard) to maintain your AC just makes for bad medicine. It will work in highly skilled and coordinated groups, but typically does not work in practice. And it makes you being the tank a serious mental drain on the group.

(5) Pull with Many Shot. That's the only time you should use Many Shot, if you have +4 Insight slotted on your weapons.

(6) You don't need Crystal Cove. Craft a DR Breaking Incite rapier. Holy or Holy Burst Silver of Incite. Your damage will drop, but your hate will rise. Do it if you can.

(7) The Hard fight is longer. The high DPS toons should give you a little time to secure aggro. Thirty seconds should suffice. One minute will be perfectly safe. Burn your Haste Boosts fast and early while Madstoning with Titan's Grip. You won't lose aggro in this situation, and it will go very smoothly provided you're maintaing an 85/86 AC.

thanks I didnt know we could craft incite onto stuff, how migh a level do you need to make it? I cant make holyburst only holy.

[Jaid314]

on a side note, don't let the fact that you have GS rapiers keep you from going strength build... just because you *can* finesse rapiers, doesn't mean you *must* use finesse for rapiers to be useful (though obviously the AC you get from focusing on dex is nice).

unfortunately i don't think there's an armor with trace of madness that you could use (well, i mean... you could use the infused chaos robe, but that's gonna be completely useless for you) since they have a proc for +100% hate when you upgrade them. might be worth testing to see how long it lasts though... if it's a 1 minute proc and works very often, you could potentially swap into the robes every so often?

[grodon9999]

Craft a +4 Holy Silver Rapier of Incite 20%. it's a VERY CHEAP and easy way to get additional threat.

We use rangers as our go-to Sulu tanks and all have crafted these now, works very well.

If you wanna go full-****** (which my human will do after this TR) . . . Epic Gem of many facets . . . Epic Gloves of the Claw . . . Epic Siren's Charm (+4 Insight AC from set bonus) and two +4 Holyburst Silver Weapons of GLOB. Will put out a butt-load of threat and a heck of a lot more damage than Mineral IIs

[grodon9999]

AC builds that sacrifice a few points of AC are like wizards intentionally gimping their INT.

nonsense, getting hit on a 15 is a hell of a lot better than getting hit on a 2.

An AC tank MUST be able to put out the threat needed to hold aggro, if not they're about as useful a a caster who doesn't have haste.

[KingOfCheese]

If you put ranks into intim--keep it ready as a backup if you lose agro. Its not terribly difficult to hit an intim in the 50s for a well geared 18/1/1 ranger with ranks in intim. I believe something around a 54 is a no-fail intim check on Sulo norm.

[grodon9999]

on a side note, don't let the fact that you have GS rapiers keep you from going strength build... just because you *can* finesse rapiers, doesn't mean you *must* use finesse for rapiers to be useful (though obviously the AC you get from focusing on dex is nice).

Deeheigh on Ghallanda - STR-based Elf Rapier ranger with 40+ STR a buffable 90 AC. Has tanked Sulu on Elite (which was VERY rough BTW) before she got the incite 20% weapon.

Nothing wrong with rapiers.

[grodon9999]

If you put ranks into intim--keep it ready as a backup if you lose agro. Its not terribly difficult to hit an intim in the 50s for a well geared 18/1/1 ranger with ranks in intim. I believe something around a 54 is a no-fail intim check on Sulo norm.

Who cares about normal. Aim higher!

A 20% threat weapon and a 30 Second head start should be fine.

[Bodic]

Suulomades is easy to Tank you KITE with a ranged weapon and kill.
A little Ranger added to the FvS/Sorc Death Machine's.

[Thrudh]

I was packing an over 80 ac

So of course he couldn't hit you... low 70s is enough for Suulo on normal.

If you have an 80 AC, you can tank him on hard too...

[Thrudh]

cloak mabar cloak.

I just noticed this... I thought the mabar cloak was bad for holding aggro because of the invisibility guard?

[grodon9999]

I just noticed this... I thought the mabar cloak was bad for holding aggro because of the invisibility guard?

That's an urban-legend, never been a problem for me even with bosses that dont' have true seeing.

[Thrudh]

Some advice:

(1) Stick with rapiers. You're fine. Min II's beat Lit II's on Hard/Elite.

(2) Min II's and +4 Holy Silver Lawful Outsider Banes are pretty much equivalent (assuming you have IC: Piercing).

(3) I'm having difficulty seeing how Natural's build could benefit from the Epic Siren's Set.

(4) You will want an AC of 85/86 for Hard ToD Suulo. Less will suffice with more pain. For a smooth run, you should hit this without counting on Recitation or a Paladin Buddy. Counting on Haste and Bard Songs is typically so-so, as you can deboot mid-fight for the Haste. If you have a bard, the bard should be able to keep the Suulo group up with you tanking. Then you can put two healers on the Horoth tanks (in a typical PUG, you have two), and one can assist with the Suulo group if needed. If you have a healer on the Suulo group, I suppose you can count on Recitation, but I don't like doing this. Healers typically do a poor job of maintaing that buff in this raid. It is much more ideal not to need Haste or Recitation to hit an AC of 85, and will make the run much smoother. Having to count on three different classes (a Healer, an Arcane and a Bard) to maintain your AC just makes for bad medicine. It will work in highly skilled and coordinated groups, but typically does not work in practice. And it makes you being the tank a serious mental drain on the group.

(5) Pull with Many Shot. That's the only time you should use Many Shot, if you have +4 Insight slotted on your weapons.

(6) You don't need Crystal Cove. Craft a DR Breaking Incite rapier. Holy or Holy Burst Silver of Incite. Your damage will drop, but your hate will rise. Do it if you can.

(7) The Hard fight is longer. The high DPS toons should give you a little time to secure aggro. Thirty seconds should suffice. One minute will be perfectly safe. Burn your Haste Boosts fast and early while Madstoning with Titan's Grip. You won't lose aggro in this situation, and it will go very smoothly provided you're maintaing an 85/86 AC.

Good advice... I got chained a lot when I used manyshot to pull Suulo at the beginning.. Maybe that was just bad luck, but I stopped doing it...

That 85/86 AC for Suulo on hard seems a bit high... I've tanked him on hard with a high 70s (maybe 80) AC with little problem

[Thrudh]

Suulomades is easy to Tank you KITE with a ranged weapon and kill.

Until he chains you...

And it makes it a little harder for the rest of the group to hit him. If you want to KILL Suulo, I don't think kiting is the answer.