Pally TR build, tank not DPS. Feedback please

[Moginheden]

Hi, I'm about to TR my pally and I'm looking for feedback on my intended build.

This guy is planned to be an endgame tank, holding agro and not going splat even when he's facing off against elite/epic bosses and raid bosses.

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Moginheden Delos
Level 20 Lawful Good Human Male
(20 Paladin) 
Hit Points: 312
Spell Points: 260 
BAB: 20\20\25\30\30
Fortitude: 23
Reflex: 15
Will: 15

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
Abilities        Base Stats          Modified Stats
(34 Point)       (Level 1)             (Level 20)
Strength             18                    25
Dexterity             8                    10
Constitution         12                    14
Intelligence         12                    14
Wisdom                8                    10
Charisma             16                    20

Tomes Used
+1 Tome of Intelligence used at level 3
+1 Tome of Charisma used at level 3
+2 Tome of Strength used at level 7
+2 Tome of Dexterity used at level 7
+2 Tome of Constitution used at level 7
+2 Tome of Intelligence used at level 7
+2 Tome of Wisdom used at level 7
+2 Tome of Charisma used at level 7

                  Starting          Feat/Enhancement
                 Base Skills         Modified Skills
Skills           (Level 1)            (Level 20)
Balance               1                    11
Bluff                 3                     5
Concentration         1                    27
Diplomacy             3                     5
Disable Device        n/a                   n/a
Haggle                3                     5
Heal                 -1                     0
Hide                 -1                     0
Intimidate            7                    32
Jump                  4                     7
Listen               -1                     0
Move Silently        -1                     0
Open Lock            n/a                    n/a
Perform               n/a                   n/a
Repair                1                     2
Search                1                     2
Spot                 -1                     0
Swim                  4                     7
Tumble                1                    11
Use Magic Device      5                    13

Level 1 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Shield Bash
Feat: (Past Life) Past Life: Paladin
Feat: (Human Bonus) Toughness


Level 2 (Paladin)


Level 3 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Tower Shield Proficiency


Level 4 (Paladin)


Level 5 (Paladin)


Level 6 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Shield Mastery


Level 7 (Paladin)


Level 8 (Paladin)


Level 9 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Combat Expertise


Level 10 (Paladin)


Level 11 (Paladin)


Level 12 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Exotic Weapon Proficiency: Bastard Sword


Level 13 (Paladin)


Level 14 (Paladin)


Level 15 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Two Handed Fighting


Level 16 (Paladin)


Level 17 (Paladin)


Level 18 (Paladin)
Feat: (Selected) Improved Critical: Slashing Weapons


Level 19 (Paladin)


Level 20 (Paladin)
Enhancement: Paladin Armor Class Boost I
Enhancement: Paladin Weapons of Good
Enhancement: Unyielding Sovereignty
Enhancement: Follower of the Sovereign Host
Enhancement: Paladin Courage of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Bulwark of Good IV
Enhancement: Paladin Focus of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good I
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good II
Enhancement: Paladin Resistance of Good III
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Righteousness I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Sacrifice III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Lay on Hands I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil I
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil II
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil III
Enhancement: Paladin Extra Smite Evil IV
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys I
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys II
Enhancement: Paladin Defender of Siberys III
Enhancement: Paladin Redemption I
Enhancement: Racial Toughness I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate I
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate II
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate III
Enhancement: Improved Intimidate IV
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion I
Enhancement: Paladin Devotion II
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma I
Enhancement: Paladin Charisma II
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness I
Enhancement: Paladin Toughness II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might I
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might II
Enhancement: Paladin Divine Might III

[kanbeki]

the door stop paladin lives, drop str 2 raise con, drop shield bash for dodge.

[spartin]

more con! perhaps drop strenth to 17 and up con. you should also fit human adaptability str and con in here. human improved recovery is also a excelant idea for a tank.

splashing 2 levels of fighter would gain you three feats (automatic tower shield proficency) and allow you to take the full thf line and PA. 93.7% of your time questing will not be spent in front of a boss. you need to be able to kill the mobs to make it to the end boss.

[Moginheden]

the door stop paladin lives, drop str 2 raise con, drop shield bash for dodge.

Str vs con I can see. I was worried about threat generation, but more HP might be more important.

Dodge needs me to blow 3 build points on dex that I get no other benefit from and only increases my AC by 1, (with my +7 and +2 exceptional dex items I'm capped on AC from dex anyway.) Shield bash gives me more threat generation by having a 20% chance to get a free, (if weak) hit in on whatever I'm attacking. Is 1 AC worth that much? or am I missing a game mechanic here that makes it better?

[Feithlin]

I don't have any paladin, so perhaps I'm mistaken, but if I were TRing a pal into a DoS, I would take those feats:
* Toughness, Combat Expertise, Power Attack, IC: Slashing, Shield mastery, Tower shield mastery
Which you have taken, drop THF (won't bring that much) and imp. Shield bash (if you need more hate, just switch for a moment to a 2-hander), and take:
* Maximize and Quicken
With your healing amp and AP in devotion, you would be able to self heal or at least help keeping you alive. 'All you need' would be to get a Torc and craft a Con Opp item (if you don't already have them) before TRing.

*Edit: On attributes, I agree with the above posts: drop Str to 17 or even 16 to increase Con.

*Edit: There's no reason to take BS instead of Khopesh if you don't have all 3 THF feats. Khopesh will land better damage. If you plan to get epic Chimera's Fang, it's best to replace khop proficiency for the dragonmark when you will have it.

[Moginheden]

more con! perhaps drop strenth to 17 and up con. you should also fit human adaptability str and con in here. human improved recovery is also a excelant idea for a tank.

splashing 2 levels of fighter would gain you three feats (automatic tower shield proficency) and allow you to take the full thf line and PA. 93.7% of your time questing will not be spent in front of a boss. you need to be able to kill the mobs to make it to the end boss.

con for str ok. The trick is how much? previous poster said drop str 2, you're saying drop it 1.

I'd love to grab the human +str and +con enhancements and improved recovery but I don't see anything I can drop to fit them that would be worth it. What should I replace?

The pally capstone is pretty good, I'm not sure the feats are worth it, (I'd get more splash damage from THF but I'd be giving up straight damage dice on every hit. Power attack doesn't work with combat expertise does it? I'd think the armor would be worth more as a tank.)

[Moginheden]

I don't have any paladin, so perhaps I'm mistaken, but if I were TRing a pal into a DoS, I would take those feats:
* Toughness, Combat Expertise, Power Attack, IC: Slashing, Shield mastery, Tower shield mastery
Which you have taken, drop THF (won't bring that much) and imp. Shield bash (if you need more hate, just switch for a moment to a 2-hander), and take:
* Maximize and Quicken
With your healing amp and AP in devotion, you would be able to self heal or at least help keeping you alive. 'All you need' would be to get a Torc and craft a Con Opp item (if you don't already have them) before TRing.

*Edit: On attributes, I agree with the above posts: drop Str to 17 or even 16 to increase Con.

*Edit: There's no reason to take BS instead of Khopesh if you don't have all 3 THF feats. Khopesh will land better damage. If you plan to get epic Chimera's Fang, it's best to replace khop proficiency for the dragonmark when you will have it.

Problem is pallys don't get the heal spell, cure serious wounds just doesn't cut it at endgame, even maximized. The only reason I've got the +healing enhancement is it's a pre-req for the raise dead one. Having a raise dead has saved my party a LOT.

I'll be using sword and board most of the time, but switching to a 2 hander when we need more DPS, how much extra single target dps does the khopesh give? I'd expect the ability to grab trash's attention would be worth the tradeoff, Am I wrong? (Currently I use a dwarven waraxe and shield combo but I don't have any THF feats. Still grabs attention from a group ok)

[DragonTroy]

Power attack doesn't work with combat expertise does it? I'd think the armor would be worth more as a tank.

i cant say on whether they work together, but unless you've got some unpossible way to get quite high ac(70ish i would say), you would benefit more from power attack, increasing your damage and therefore your hate

[Feithlin]

Problem is pallys don't get the heal spell, cure serious wounds just doesn't cut it at endgame, even maximized. The only reason I've got the +healing enhancement is it's a pre-req for the raise dead one. Having a raise dead has saved my party a LOT.

I'll be using sword and board most of the time, but switching to a 2 hander when we need more DPS, how much extra single target dps does the khopesh give? I'd expect the ability to grab trash's attention would be worth the tradeoff, Am I wrong? (Currently I use a dwarven waraxe and shield combo but I don't have any THF feats. Still grabs attention from a group ok)

You can probably get a high enough intimidate to grab attention of trash, even without specific feats, with your cha. It will be probably more efficient than low glancing blows.

For healing, let's take a look:
A basic CSW heals for 3d6 + 21 = 31.5 on average.
With Maximize, +75% from cliky and Paladin Devotion IV (+40%), it would be: 31.5 * 2 * 2.15 = 135.45
Now, with Paladin PL (+5%), 20% on a Tempest rune, 20% from Human, 30% from epic Gloves of the Claw, you multiply this by: 1.05 * 1.2 * 1.2 * 1.3 = 1.9656, for a total average healing of 266.
Not that bad