Drawing a line in the sand. . .

[Mithran]

As someone who has played this game an exceptionally long time, I'm a bit saddened by the new sense of entitlement so many new players seem to have.

Amount of experience accumulated while waiting for Fighter to finish his chat with his guildie (where everyone but the guildie is in the quest, mind you): 0

Experience accumulated waiting for you to return from your afk: 0

Experience accumulated while waiting for a new group to assemble after the last one was killed by mom aggro: 0

Now it may be that I'm the problem in thinking that once a group is assembled for a specific run, we should all get our characters to the quest and start the **** run. The quest only takes eight minutes so why I'm having to sit around reading idle chat for half an hour instead of running the quest three times is beyond me.

Just for the record, it's been 32 years since I was actually twelve years old.

[Emili]

As someone who has played this game an exceptionally long time, I'm a bit saddened by the new sense of entitlement so many new players seem to have.

Amount of experience accumulated while waiting for Fighter to finish his chat with his guildie (where everyone but the guildie is in the quest, mind you): 0

Experience accumulated waiting for you to return from your afk: 0

Experience accumulated while waiting for a new group to assemble after the last one was killed by mom aggro: 0

Now it may be that I'm the problem in thinking that once a group is assembled for a specific run, we should all get our characters to the quest and start the **** run. The quest only takes eight minutes so why I'm having to sit around reading idle chat for half an hour instead of running the quest three times is beyond me.

Just for the record, it's been 32 years since I was actually twelve years old.

Usually I am a late one... trying to figure out what to wear (character to bring) on short notice. All the same I even get frustrated when am the 12th to join get myself out to the door and half the party decide after I finally step in it's time to get boat buffs.

[mournbladereigns]

Don't play with Kids /thread

[varusso]

If you want to move quickly in your group, boot the ones that do this nonsense. If you joined the group, and it turned out this way, leave. There are plenty of people who want the same thing, and know how to do it, so you dont even have to solo.

Now, RL *always* takes precedence over the game. But if a player is constantly doing this, then they need to understand that the rest of the group does not need to be constantly held up by THEIR life issues. Have the courtesy to bow out and let everyone else get back to enjoying their free time.

I have a 4 yr old that doesnt understand "Daddy is playing". If her need for attention is going to last more than a couple minutes, or re-occur frequently, I will drop group and let them replace me. Whatever we were doing, I can do it later. The rest of the group may not have that luxury -- nor the time to wait for me to get my ass back in the quest and go.

[JakLee7]

I am bad about drawing, I am more autistic than artistic..... but this is the exact reason I tend to skip pugs when leveling..... except the ones that sound fast

[Deissa_Ironhand]

On Sarlona I have a rogue I use. I hate waiting and waiting,..waiting....waiting...zzzzzzz....hey dude we started...we need you to pop a trap....so I make them wait....wait...Rogue scratches head, yawns.....drinks his coffee....then I reply...." Oh you finally started" then yawn-quit......let em roast...

[articwarrior]

On Sarlona I have a rogue I use. I hate waiting and waiting,..waiting....waiting...zzzzzzz....hey dude we started...we need you to pop a trap....so I make them wait....wait...Rogue scratches head, yawns.....drinks his coffee....then I reply...." Oh you finally started" then yawn-quit......let em roast...

this lol, it seems I wait forever for a group to fill, but after 20 mins, we get surges of players, often enough to fill party and more

[Mts]

The sense of entitlement goes both ways, as I was reminded yesterday. (On my sorc)

Blasting through a shroud, as normal - group is somewhat slow but no big deal. I'm running at my usual lightning pace (who needs buffs?).

Everything goes semi-ok till start to P4 (3 repulls in P2, grrr). With 5 casters in the group, I shrine and hop into P4 and start clearing. Only myself, a guildie and another competent barb pop into P4, with everyone else still in P3. Harry comes down with the majority of the group still in the last section, ultimately resulting in a failed run after 3/4 of the party died with folks trickling in.

Perhaps entitlement isn't the right word, but a lot of the vets are used to running a certain way, and will do so automatically even when it's perhaps not so appropriate. I was blamed for the fail (rightly so, since it wasn't my group) but I'm still baffled why they took so long buffing to the nines in P3.

I should have drank a few pots and killed harry myself.

[Emili]

The sense of entitlement goes both ways, as I was reminded yesterday. (On my sorc)

Blasting through a shroud, as normal - group is somewhat slow but no big deal. I'm running at my usual lightning pace (who needs buffs?).

Everything goes semi-ok till start to P4 (3 repulls in P2, grrr). With 5 casters in the group, I shrine and hop into P4 and start clearing. Only myself, a guildie and another competent barb pop into P4, with everyone else still in P3. Harry comes down with the majority of the group still in the last section, ultimately resulting in a failed run after 3/4 of the party died with folks trickling in.

Perhaps entitlement isn't the right word, but a lot of the vets are used to running a certain way, and will do so automatically even when it's perhaps not so appropriate. I was blamed for the fail (rightly so, since it wasn't my group) but I'm still baffled why they took so long buffing to the nines in P3.

I should have drank a few pots and killed harry myself.

I would not shoulder blame so much onto those jumped in quicker - afterall most vets are speed run minded come shroud - is a natural thing... I use one shrine - end part 2. All anyone needs. I do not loot a single chest until the quest is complete... someone asked me why and I told them well if you ever see me loot any chests here before part five - worry.

The wipe there was having people trickle in. They all should have hopped in quickly given the scope or had they intended to wait ... hopped in together, is that simple. Sure you hopped in sprung Harry and died... oh well, You are not the entire party and part four even easier on existing mana bars with the pre-trash already gone - Harry's down... hop in surround him is all.

[Uska]

[QUOTE=Mithran;3871761]As someone who has played this game an exceptionally long time, I'm a bit saddened by the new sense of entitlement so many new players seem to have.

Amount of experience accumulated while waiting for Fighter to finish his chat with his guildie (where everyone but the guildie is in the quest, mind you): 0

Experience accumulated waiting for you to return from your afk: 0

Experience accumulated while waiting for a new group to assemble after the last one was killed by mom aggro: 0

Now it may be that I'm the problem in thinking that once a group is assembled for a specific run, we should all get our characters to the quest and start the **** run. The quest only takes eight minutes so why I'm having to sit around reading idle chat for half an hour instead of running the quest three times is beyond me.

Just for the record, it's been 32 years since I was actually twelve years old.[/QUOTE]

Get off my lawn ya young whipper snapper ya I am older but barley

[Mts]

I would not shoulder blame so much onto those jumped in quicker - afterall most vets are speed run minded come shroud - is a natural thing... I use one shrine - end part 2. All anyone needs. I do not loot a single chest until the quest is complete... someone asked me why and I told them well if you ever see me loot any chests here before part five - worry.

The wipe there was having people trickle in. They all should have hopped in quickly given the scope or had they intended to wait ... hopped in together, is that simple. Sure you hopped in sprung Harry and died... oh well, You are not the entire party and part four even easier on existing mana bars with the pre-trash already gone - Harry's down... hop in surround him is all.

I should note, I didn't die till the end of the second round - Got him down the first round, then down till blades came in for second round. Ran out of SP and decided to see how far I could get him w/ SLA's and past life feats lol. The other players, with the exception of a couple recalled within the first 15 seconds of the first round. Called it when it was just two folks left in the raid.

Agreed though - All they had to do was hop in and start beating on Harry.

[Braxion]

Just for the record, it's been 32 years since I was actually twelve years old.

****, Brutality... You ARE old. Tell me, what was Noah like?

Ok ok... I think its not an issue with age but with how people play. Some players its all rush rush rush, some take their sweet time.

For instance, some of the "old timers" (read old people) who join a group then make coffee, or open a beer or take their medications, then light a cigarette, etc. (read "I'm a commin")

Or some of the kids, who get so distracted by anything "oh look a marble!" that they forget what they are doing.

I know you make concessions for both grandmothers that play this game and for younger players that have to make sure its ok with their parents or who need a break to take their ADD meds.

Most players, if you set up expectations first will follow them. Granted their are some people that will join a TOD raid, take forever getting there and once in will go AFK without moving past the "lock out" zone. (These are the same people that put up EChrono LFMs saying you can't join if you want a certain piece or pieces of loot)

So again, expectations. I know that if I join Crazydamage's groups he is going to rush, and talk unintelligibly into the mic. Or if I join Axer, he is going to fly through it and demain stuff from everyone. On the flip side, anything with me we will either die horribly or I will die horribly and you will laugh.

I am not saying a certain way is bad, or certain players are bad (except EChrono guy). Again Setting Expectations.

Remember that the next time you join a "Drunken" Raid and you are sober.

[Chai]

Selective grouping FTW.

These arent just new players being needy. I still hear 4 year vets complaining they dont have their ship buffs for trivial content. With 20 point house P buffs and 30 point ship resists, they have 50 points of resistance to the 25 point lightning bolts the kobolds toss all over the place in elite harbor quests.

Alot of these newbies are emulating the same sense of entitlement that was thrust apon them by vets when they first joined.

[Thrudh]

I would not shoulder blame so much onto those jumped in quicker - afterall most vets are speed run minded come shroud - is a natural thing... I use one shrine - end part 2. All anyone needs. I do not loot a single chest until the quest is complete... someone asked me why and I told them well if you ever see me loot any chests here before part five - worry.

The wipe there was having people trickle in. They all should have hopped in quickly given the scope or had they intended to wait ... hopped in together, is that simple. Sure you hopped in sprung Harry and died... oh well, You are not the entire party and part four even easier on existing mana bars with the pre-trash already gone - Harry's down... hop in surround him is all.

Really?

The fault was the rest of the group trickling in? Not the fault of the 3 who started Part 4 without being able to handle Harry by themselves?

Interesting way of looking at it.

[Thrudh]

With 20 point house P buffs and 30 point ship resists, they have 50 points of resistance to the 25 point lightning bolts the kobolds toss all over the place in elite harbor quests.

Chai... I've seen you post this like 5 times now, and 5 times people have corrected you...

So even though it's probably futile, I'll do it once more.... The 30 point ship resists DO NOT STACK.

[jydog100]

The sense of entitlement goes both ways, as I was reminded yesterday. (On my sorc)

Blasting through a shroud, as normal - group is somewhat slow but no big deal. I'm running at my usual lightning pace (who needs buffs?).

Everything goes semi-ok till start to P4 (3 repulls in P2, grrr). With 5 casters in the group, I shrine and hop into P4 and start clearing. Only myself, a guildie and another competent barb pop into P4, with everyone else still in P3. Harry comes down with the majority of the group still in the last section, ultimately resulting in a failed run after 3/4 of the party died with folks trickling in.

Perhaps entitlement isn't the right word, but a lot of the vets are used to running a certain way, and will do so automatically even when it's perhaps not so appropriate. I was blamed for the fail (rightly so, since it wasn't my group) but I'm still baffled why they took so long buffing to the nines in P3.

I should have drank a few pots and killed harry myself.

haha, had a group like that recently while on my wizzy...part 2, massive over buffing so i went in and cleared it, people started trickling in and running to to s center. i type /sleep and was on the big rock. did the same for part 4 but i just stoned the last devil.

c'mon people, 45 minute shroud pugs SUCK!!!

[Thrudh]

I should note, I didn't die till the end of the second round - Got him down the first round, then down till blades came in for second round. Ran out of SP and decided to see how far I could get him w/ SLA's and past life feats lol. The other players, with the exception of a couple recalled within the first 15 seconds of the first round. Called it when it was just two folks left in the raid.

Agreed though - All they had to do was hop in and start beating on Harry.

That's pretty weak that they all bailed so quick...

It's always fun to root for the 3 guys left alive in Part 4, and watch them pull the whole group through (not that this has happened in a long time)

[NXPlasmid]

As someone who has played this game an exceptionally long time, I'm a bit saddened by the new sense of entitlement so many new players seem to have.

Amount of experience accumulated while waiting for Fighter to finish his chat with his guildie (where everyone but the guildie is in the quest, mind you): 0

Experience accumulated waiting for you to return from your afk: 0

Experience accumulated while waiting for a new group to assemble after the last one was killed by mom aggro: 0

Now it may be that I'm the problem in thinking that once a group is assembled for a specific run, we should all get our characters to the quest and start the **** run. The quest only takes eight minutes so why I'm having to sit around reading idle chat for half an hour instead of running the quest three times is beyond me.

Just for the record, it's been 32 years since I was actually twelve years old.

Yeah, I am reluctant to put up an LFM unless I have a couple friends or guildies with me. Although the general competence on the server is massively better than when F2P started, it's still very much a mixed bag and you can be certain that those who are doing the things that are annoying spend zero time here in the forums...

As to raid fails caused by either zerging vets or clueless newbs I think if you aren't evaluting a raid group on the fly to understand your abilities in the context of the group, problems can occur. This is not directed specifically at anyone, but there is a danger of playing in high level guilds and mainly running with guildies. You can become accustomed to the multiplier effect that having many fully geared very competent players beside you.

Probably at some point Mts was thinking "no prob, I've got this covered" and then at some point later thought "oh man, I 'm not able to do what I am normally accustomed to..." Clearly he didn't jump into pt4 intending to fail...

disclaimer* I am just thinking out loud and not intending any judgement whatsoever. T

[Thrudh]

Amount of experience accumulated while waiting for Fighter to finish his chat with his guildie (where everyone but the guildie is in the quest, mind you): 0

Experience accumulated waiting for you to return from your afk: 0

Experience accumulated while waiting for a new group to assemble after the last one was killed by mom aggro: 0

Start the quest with the people who are in the quest. No need to wait for a full group.

[Sweyn]

As someone who has played this game an exceptionally long time, I'm a bit saddened by the new sense of entitlement so many new players seem to have.

Amount of experience accumulated while waiting for Fighter to finish his chat with his guildie (where everyone but the guildie is in the quest, mind you): 0

Experience accumulated waiting for you to return from your afk: 0

Experience accumulated while waiting for a new group to assemble after the last one was killed by mom aggro: 0

Now it may be that I'm the problem in thinking that once a group is assembled for a specific run, we should all get our characters to the quest and start the **** run. The quest only takes eight minutes so why I'm having to sit around reading idle chat for half an hour instead of running the quest three times is beyond me.

Just for the record, it's been 32 years since I was actually twelve years old.

What do you plan on accomplishing from this post? You really think this is going to change anything? lol...