Question from a noob Arcane about WF archmage vs Human PM for soloing to 20

[Sircowdog]

Ok, so I've read quite a few different threads about the pros and cons of the WF Archmage vs the Human/Drow Palemaster. I think They're both pretty strong, and so my question may be a bit moot:

But if a person was primarily interested in a solo playstyle, with the objective being to reach 20 and TR, which of these two would hold me in better stead?

Most of the discussion I read was about end-game builds focusing on high DCs with massive levels of gear to support it. But for a newer player with shallower pockets, and also being fairly new to playing a caster, I didn't find much. Maybe it was just so buried in the overwhelming sea of information, I don't know. If there's already a good guide out there, just point me in the right direction. But I'd also like to hear opinions on the general playstyle as well. What kinds of things I should be on the lookout for as I level up and learn the build? Gear? Enhancements? Spell selections? Pitfalls to avoid gimping myself? That kind of thing.

And as for the whole solo thing, I'm not trying to be some kind of uber solo artist who refuses to group. I'll take groups when I can get them, but I will likely be spending most of my time attacking quests on my own, and thus want to build my toon with that in mind.

Oh, also: I realize this is kind of a pointed question about a very specific style of play. I'm just trying to get as much info as I can before I decide to invest the time into it. Any info, for OR against will help me immensely.

[Ngha]

Definitely WF archmage.

Why: Reconstruct, repair ____ wounds which scale as you level.

Fleshy Palemasters have to wait until level 6 to self heal, even then its not that good, you really wont start self healing as a PM until after lvl 12....where you'll need to be grouping to level anyways... if you want to level fast.

I however made a WF Palemaster just for funsies... Gimpy.

[Cartheron]

While I agree that WF Archmage is probably a better choice for newer player during leveling process (it is not that I think leveling PM would be hard, but greater sp pool is a big advantage for new plaers and not heavily twinked toons), I cant agree with that statement:

Fleshy Palemasters have to wait until level 6 to self heal, even then its not that good, you really wont start self healing as a PM until after lvl 12....where you'll need to be grouping to level anyways... if you want to level fast.

Truth is, you start to heal as WF at level 11. Before that, you use repair whatever as an emergency button, because with metas on it waste alot of sp, similar to negative energy burst for PM. Pots and wands are cheap and easy solution to healing before lev 11, when you get reconstruct.

About grouping to level up fast - dont make me laugh, soloing stuff with lev 12 WF wizard is usually much faster that going anywhere in a PUG (obviously you will sometimes encounter groups that can split and do all 3 towers in wizking in the same time, not dying in the process. It is faster than soloing. Maybe I am out of luck, but it never happens to me).

As for general notes (assuming you will go with WF AM patch):

1. Toughness, Maximize,empower, heighten, quicken, grt spell focus (your AM choice), grt spell focus (your second AM choice probably), grt spell pen are recommended feats in my opinion. You will have 1 more feat slot, but you have to take mental toughness to qualify for AM. For stats, max int, max con, dump rest. You can think about extend, but for mostly solo non-PM wizard it is not necessary in my opinion. Extend is for PMs

2. Carry repair xxx pots and wands - they are not so expensive and save alot of sp.

3. Wear some DR item, like docent of invulnerability/bladesmark, bloodrage symbiont or something like this - it helps alot when soloing, and it is much cheaper in the long run than constantly casting stoneskin

4. Before lev 3, niacs and shocking grasp will kill everything. At lev 3, add melf acid arrow. At 5 fireball or acid blast. At lev 7 firewall, ice storm, acid rain - it is only getting easier from this point. Remember to pick up new lev 5 spells (DoTs) when leveling up - they are awesome.

5. Exp retreat, jump, nightshield, resist energy, displacement, greater heroism - try to not leave home without them

6. For soloing charms and suggestion are incredible. Especilly if you want to complete dungeon, not necessary kill every single mob inside.

7. Learn to love invisibility.

8. Minimum items you need are some dr, int, con, false life (best you can get), moderate fort, superior *insert element name* clickies/pots, major lore items. Rest is just a bonus. Take archivist neck from Khortos - it is abot 50 additional sp, huge bonus early game.

9. Recommended schools to specialize in - enchantment (hypno SLA), necromancy (no SLA), conjuration (web SLA, if you like webs ). Maybe evocation for almost free damage spells, but I havnt played evo AM after U9, I dont know how devastating nerf really was.

10. Have fun

[Kriogen]

...
But if a person was primarily interested in a solo playstyle, with the objective being to reach 20 and TR, which of these two would hold me in better stead?
...

In 2009, before euro server shutdown, I 'tested' american side for a couple of month.

I was part for that beta and got a couple of free TPs. Used them to unlock a couple of things. I rolled a Warforged Wizard18/Rogue2. Pretty generic, max INT, good CON, some points into STR so I could melee low level trash and save some mana.

I started with knowladge, but abolutely nothing else. No gold, not gear, no friends. Nothing.

Leveling was fast, easy and cheap. In a couple of weeks (kinda casual play style) I was lvl 14 (wiz12/rog2) with all the must have gear that can be found outside of raids. I was also flaged for Velah, DQ and Reaver. 80-90% solo, PUG for quest that require group.

Don't know about flashy PM, but WF Wizard works. Proven. Oh, and this was before AM/PM prestige.

[Oracle_Gil]

....

It depends more on how much you are comfortable with the quests and your playstyle. I would say both are good choices but Human would have max DC. Also insightful reflexes is easier to take on human with extra feat - traps. PM gives u 100% fortification which is good. Wraith form also has benefits in certain situation to play hide and seek.
But levelling with PM is a bit slow than AM imo, but that may just be me...

However with PM most disadvantageous thing is the light damage you will take from clerics. Even undead wights do light damage. In that sense WF AM is safer bet to solo a lot. Taking zombie enhancement is actually ok (u can compensate with +4 int item) but vampire is a suicide, 4x light damage is a joke, one hit kill from searing light.

Good groups are easier to lvl with than solo, so if you run a good run with a group, you should try to coax them to run other quests for a while too. Bad groups, you should just complete like you are soloing and forget.

About build, just max int and con. That should do. Wiz is not feat starved and you will have lot of skill points.

[sirgog]

WF Archmage. Pale Masters just randomly die to copping two Searing Lights at once too often.

[Ngha]

WF archmage for soloing definitely.

Even a Human PM with UMD out the ying yang using Inflict x wound scrolls will not solo as well.

[Faent]

WF Archmage. For fast leveling I prefer Acid/Fire spec. Rely on Fire Wall, Acid Rain, Melf's Acid Arrow, Niac's Cold Ray, Frost Lance, Acid Blast and Cone of Cold. For leveling, feel free to boost Cold a wee bit, but you don't need to do so much. Invisibility can be scrolled on the cheap. GH can be scrolled, but it's more expensive. Fire Shield scrolls are nice. I prefer Enchantment/Conjuration specced for fast leveling. Once you hit Gianthold, Mass Suggestion simply dominates. If you prefer to take things slowly, take any focus you want. You can use Reconstruct scrolls, if you have the funds, before you have the spell. Repair Moderate pots are cheaper than Repair Serious pots, so try to use those more if you lack funds. Join or start a guild so you have access to House Kundarak guild pots earlier. Haste, Rage and Lesser Restoration pots are amazing, and Lesser Restoration potions are required. At early levels, use all the Blur wands you find! For the first 8 or so levels, use Master's Touch with the best Great Axe you can find. Web + Hack and Slash will take you to Firewall.

[NaturalHazard]

WF Archmage. Pale Masters just randomly die to copping two Searing Lights at once too often.

can someone point me to a solid wf archmage pure 20 wizard build?

sorry to derail but ive been searching and my search fu is weak, keep getting 18/2 wiz rogue builds and thats not what I want to do.

[sirgog]

can someone point me to a solid wf archmage pure 20 wizard build?

sorry to derail but ive been searching and my search fu is weak, keep getting 18/2 wiz rogue builds and thats not what I want to do.

Archmages are so flexible that they can really be built a lot of ways.

Deep necro (taking SLAs to get Enervation), enchant/conj (taking 3sp dance and 3sp web), enchant/evoc (going to 3sp dance and 6sp chain missiles), max SP necro (no SLAs) - all of these are viable. (Edit: So are others too, just picking a few I've toyed with the idea of trying out)

But basically, start with 18 Int and 18 Con (16 before racial modifiers), other stat points wherever you feel like (I prefer 14 Str to prevent Str-incap), take Toughness, Maximize and Empower (and Mental Toughness as an AM prereq) and you can pick spell focuses later. Your spell focus feats define you as an Archmage, but you can wait to 6 to pick them.

One more thing: Take Insightful Reflexes at high level (if not before). Failing eChrono abashai saves (or tiefling caster saves) on a 14 when buffed is painful. Making them on a 2 (tiefling) or 3-4 (abashai) is an enormous survivability boost.

[NaturalHazard]

Archmages are so flexible that they can really be built a lot of ways.

Deep necro (taking SLAs to get Enervation), enchant/conj (taking 3sp dance and 3sp web), enchant/evoc (going to 3sp dance and 6sp chain missiles), max SP necro (no SLAs) - all of these are viable.

But basically, start with 18 Int and 18 Con (16 before racial modifiers), other stat points wherever you feel like (I prefer 14 Str to prevent Str-incap), take Toughness, Maximize and Empower (and Mental Toughness as an AM prereq) and you can pick spell focuses later. Your spell focus feats define you as an Archmage, but you can wait to 6 to pick them.

how about necro/conjuration?

[Ngha]

other stat points wherever you feel like (I prefer 14 Str to prevent Str-incap),

This will be your best advice in stat points. all too often you find yourself helpless in a group of casters. meaning you can't even heal yourself. Worst possible scenario for a solo.

[Oracle_Gil]

One more thing which I forgot to explain in previous post is, even when light damage is too much, PM is not completely at disadvantage. PM have more DC for FoD. So if you can survive a bit around attack on stomreach from monkeys, u can soon be able to select clerics from far and FoD them. Wights in sands would be a problem but even they are easy to charm and all.
I firmly believe that so much light damage is not actually intended and should get nerfed hopefully. But that does not make PM non-playable or not soloable.
Another thing to consider is that it is very easy and cheap to get death aura scrolls/inflict wounds wands/pots etc. So you can get very cheap self heals with you.
[oops was that supposed to be a secret?]

[Beethoven]

how about necro/conjuration?

I like it and it's what I currently am playing. Web gives you virtually free (3 SP) and relative effective CC (targets Reflex saves which commonly is a low save for most mobs). So, it's nice for both group situation and tactical use in solo play.

For instance, set up a Symbol of Death, put a web on the other side and drag a group of mobs in it - once they are stuck hit them with Circle of Death. The Symbol is going to Energy Drain and the Circle is either going to take care of business or train them further (it's unlikely they'll make the save against the Reflex portion of the spell if your DC is only halfway decent). What's left can be easily dealt with by a Wail. Obviously, outside epics that might be overkill and even in epics I wouldn't recommend using this tactic against small groups or individual mobs.

Web also helps with the issue of having a lower Enchantment DC since you really feel like using Holds you always can start off with a Web and debuff mobs with Hypno and Crushing Despair/Fear, which reduces their Will Save by a total of 5.

[Sircowdog]

Although many people said to go with the WF AM, I actually went human PM. In the first 7 levels I can already see the difference in playstyle and the advantages of the WF, although I'm not ready to give up on the PM just yet.

Having said that, does anyone have any advice about the actual piloting of a PM? So far it seems exactly like a regular mage except you can heal with zombie form+death aura, and get free melee range hits for decent damage.

I did a couple runs where all I did was zerg through until I got dungeon alert, then turned on death aura and AOE'd everything before continuing. Seems to work well so far.

Its definitely a nice change of pace from playing melee, however. I actually have to think about what I'm doing, and really consider how many SP I have left, and which spells to use in each situation. As opposed to "Hulk Smash!" style that I'm used to.

[Sircowdog]

Just a quick update, in case anyone cares to follow my progress(or lack thereof in this case).

I hit a wall with the PM around level 9. Its a strong build, but the penalty of extra damage you take from light-based attacks just got to a point where it seemed prohibitive. Your tactics are forced into taking down shaman/priest type enemies first, no matter what, or face annihilation. And on hard or elite runs, the penalty seems to be magnified. At least it felt like I was taking FAR FAR too much damage from single light attacks.

Anyway, scrapped the PM and rerolled a WF FvS who, thus far, has completely blown the PM out of the water. In retrospect, I really should have listened to everyone and gone with the WF archmage. Maybe next time.

And for the TLR people out there, Sirgog sums it up:

WF Archmage. Pale Masters just randomly die to copping two Searing Lights at once too often.

[DragonTroy]

One more thing: Take Insightful Reflexes at high level (if not before). Failing eChrono abashai saves (or tiefling caster saves) on a 14 when buffed is painful. Making them on a 2 (tiefling) or 3-4 (abashai) is an enormous survivability boost.

wow, how high is the reflex save needed for that? i ant remember ever failing that save except on a 1 when on my monk. and i dont think my saves are higher than the average bear(or monkey, rather)

(i know this is kind of derailing the thread, dont mean to, just a quick question)

EDIT: didnt realize i helped necro this thread

[emptysands]

WF Archmage. Pale Masters just randomly die to copping two Searing Lights at once too often.

I've survived 2-3 in Running with Devils. Insightful Reflexes.

[emptysands]

If you have the gear go PM - avoid vampire, take insightful reflexes and with solo scaling searing light wont be a problem.

If it's a new toon and want to TR straight away, go pure Wizard. Getting wail at 17 will make it easier for that last bit of grind.

2 Rogue levels will help you if you want to farm some of the med level quests like Shadow King, higher level you'll avoid a lot of spell damage. You'll not get level 9 spells until 20, plus you'll lose DC and one meta feat.

With solo scaling you'll simply jump over most traps in higher levels so evasion isn't that important.

[Alternative]

WF is the easiest way to go if you're new to arcane casters. So if you NEED to have it easy then yea, WF AM is your best choice.

Pale master is imo more fun, now that it's mostly working as it should, and a human/drow will always have 1 DC over WF.