Healerless HOX

[ballsz]

Just wanted to say AWESOME job to everyone who helped complete the no healer HOX last night. You guys rock!

Short Story:

Yes, we did have 2 healers in the group. Neither one threw a single heal though. You see before the raid started I stated, that if you don't know your way and you get separated from group speak up right away. That way I don't have to go back to the start for you. Of course we get this moron who does but doesn't say anything until we are half way there, okay... I try to help and figure out where he is, but of course he is no where on my map and he can't say anything except "I fell" when several people asked where he fell already... His guildy, one of the healers, ask if we can go back. I said sure, but he can't say where he fell and I'm not going on a wild goose chase. We continue on, and nothing else is said about it. We get to the quest, everybody knows their roles and the lost guy recalls. I kick him because he can't communicate with the group and I'm not going out of my way to help somebody who can't help me help them. We step in, everyone has been told several times not to move, the lost guy's guildy runs 10 ft. to the left. Okay, it happens sometimes right... We buff quickly and I run in to tank. Failed my save for bees and died from it, but all the dogs are getting charmed. Just figured we got a bad start, it happens. At this point I begin telling the healers to heal the dogs, because they are not getting healed. All the dogs die. It's just normal, so we get more stones and re-charm dogs, dogs are not getting healed. I begin to ask the healer's *** is going on. Then it hits me, the one healer isn't doing anything because we didn't spend 30 mins. looking for his guildy. At this point everyone in the raid realizes that the healers are trying to screw us. Me, my guildy bard(Gelbmusic), and a sorc(Acidtryp) with UMD take over and begin healing the dogs with scrolls. When the raid was pretty much over the second healer admits, he didn't know how to heal the dogs. Apparently his first time, but he didn't tell anybody until it was too late. We complete, not the smoothest run in the world, but we got it done.

Great job guys! I just love the fact that we got to rub it in the disgruntled healer's face that we still didn't fail.

EDIT: Added some names.

[Cam_Neely]

must be proud of yourself

[ballsz]

must be proud of yourself

I'm proud of everyone there who helped. It was a great recovery from an otherwise horrible run.

[TheDearLeader]

Well done - and this is why I hate pugging raids.

A lot of people that have gotten to 17-20 riding on the coattails of those more experienced come in. And you know what? That's fine.

It's not fine when they don't say anything about being new, or being unable to perform a function, etc.

I'll be much happier with a new player who is an effective communication/listener than I am with the quiet guy.

I don't get it, really - I'm still well capable of expressing my own personal ineptitude to my party, and I've been at this for almost two years now . If someone has been playing less than 3 months, and this is their first time through quest/raid... well, sometimes I do a little /sigh with my mic turned off, but I do what I can to advise them on how to get the raids done.

Had the same issue with a VoD... Normal, like two days ago? Get informed sometime right around where we had 1 archer left to light up the center that not 1, but 3, people in the raid are new to VoD.

Did it succeed? Yes. We had a competent AC tank, and a good few high-DPS toons to complement.

And I personally thank the other 8 not-new people for giving me enough time in the buff room to explain what was going to be going on during the raid. I didn't expect to be teaching it, but these things happen.

(And true to Pugs: I advise the Wizard of one thing - conserve mana. Have at least 20% left over at the end. Don't cast an abundance of spells. What happens? OoM before the second wave of Orthons.)

....Pugs -.- But back to the point, yes, congrats on your short-manned, healerless HoX. Mad props to the Bard especially, whoever they were.

[Chai]

Sounds to me like someone didnt know what to do, but instead of admitting that, they tried to schlub their way through it, failed, saw that people were irritated, guildy took their side and tried to grief the raid, and when THAT failed, tried to banter he didnt know how to heal the puppys?

So a healer made it to at least upper mid levels without the knowledge of hard target + cure or heal? I know its getting easier to play the low level game and the learning curve is minimal but.......DAYUM!!!

Sorry officer...I didnt know I couldnt do that.

[Dracey]

What a lie, you totally had healers. Your healers were the ones UMD'ing heal scrolls.

Thumbs up though! Groups like that which pull through with mid run improvising is where all the fun is at, and is a great test to players' abilities. Flawless runs can be boring IMHO.

[Maxallu]

You seem to enjoy rubbing in people's faces.

[TheDearLeader]

You seem to enjoy rubbing in people's faces.

I don't see names named.
I don't see guilds named.
I don't even see *classes*, Cleric/FvS, named.

And I doubt if they check the forums, whoever these strange and anonymous people are.

Not a lot of face rubbin' here...

[NaturalHazard]

I don't see names named.
I don't see guilds named.
I don't even see *classes*, Cleric/FvS, named.

And I doubt if they check the forums, whoever these strange and anonymous people are.

Not a lot of face rubbin' here...

maybe hes rubbing his face in it?

[Maxallu]

maybe hes rubbing his face in it?

Now you are assuming that I had anything to do with that clusterF?


Just from what I have read from the op,
Any competent HOX group would not have had half the problems that group had. Also, solid, clear leadership tends to prevent the problems that that group experienced.

Maybe if some people in this game were less full of themselves and more supportive the the rest of the players in this game world that we all share, people would be more inclined to speak up and accept guidance from someone that they respected, instead of worrying about being on the receiving end of the spite stick.

Sometimes, the quest goes to trash. Is it right to grief the rest of the raid? certainly not, but perhaps better interpersonal communication skills would have prevented that behavior.

And the passive aggression in the op is really tacky.



edit: this is just another one of the countless, "look how uber I am, all pugs and newbs suck," pat yourself on the back threads that we have way too many of already.

[Quikster]

Now you are assuming that I had anything to do with that clusterF?


Just from what I have read from the op,
Any competent HOX group would not have had half the problems that group had. Also, solid, clear leadership tends to prevent the problems that that group experienced.

Maybe if some people in this game were less full of themselves and more supportive the the rest of the players in this game world that we all share, people would be more inclined to speak up and accept guidance from someone that they respected, instead of worrying about being on the receiving end of the spite stick.

Sometimes, the quest goes to trash. Is it right to grief the rest of the raid? certainly not, but perhaps better interpersonal communication skills would have prevented that behavior.

And the passive aggression in the op is really tacky.



edit: this is just another one of the countless, "look how uber I am, all pugs and newbs suck," pat yourself on the back threads that we have way too many of already.

Look how uber I am, all pugs and nubs suck couldnt resist. This time with screenies though. OP hound with no healers is old news

[Jubbers]

Now you are assuming that I had anything to do with that clusterF?


Just from what I have read from the op,
Any competent HOX group would not have had half the problems that group had. Also, solid, clear leadership tends to prevent the problems that that group experienced.

Maybe if some people in this game were less full of themselves and more supportive the the rest of the players in this game world that we all share, people would be more inclined to speak up and accept guidance from someone that they respected, instead of worrying about being on the receiving end of the spite stick.

Sometimes, the quest goes to trash. Is it right to grief the rest of the raid? certainly not, but perhaps better interpersonal communication skills would have prevented that behavior.

And the passive aggression in the op is really tacky.



edit: this is just another one of the countless, "look how uber I am, all pugs and newbs suck," pat yourself on the back threads that we have way too many of already.

People that have trouble communicating don't need any of your feel good, your such an elitist jerk protection ****.

HoX is one of the raids where if people don't listen or do their job, BTW new guys it's your job to say your new and try not to do what your advised not to do. I have had more hound runs go bad due to people not listening or when the question is asked "does everyone know what they are supposed to do", the new guys says nothing.

In a run with people that are new I explain what is going on a lot more then hea, this is my 5500th HoX lets just get it done. No one even said the new guys suck, but come on silence is just as bad as a vet being a ****** on a bad build.

[ballsz]

Now you are assuming that I had anything to do with that clusterF?


Just from what I have read from the op,
Any competent HOX group would not have had half the problems that group had. Also, solid, clear leadership tends to prevent the problems that that group experienced.

Maybe if some people in this game were less full of themselves and more supportive the the rest of the players in this game world that we all share, people would be more inclined to speak up and accept guidance from someone that they respected, instead of worrying about being on the receiving end of the spite stick.

Sometimes, the quest goes to trash. Is it right to grief the rest of the raid? certainly not, but perhaps better interpersonal communication skills would have prevented that behavior.

And the passive aggression in the op is really tacky.



edit: this is just another one of the countless, "look how uber I am, all pugs and newbs suck," pat yourself on the back threads that we have way too many of already.

I don't normally respond to ignorant comments, but really c'mon. More proper communication? First of all you weren't there, 2nd of all you can't communicate with people who don't respond back to you, it's a two way thing... Oh and you want me to less full of my self, oh holier than thou as you pass judgement on someone you've never ran with or met?

Third, I said nothing of how bad the PUG was, in fact if you actually read what I wrote, the only person I complain about is that one griefing healer and I compliment everyone else in the party, so seriously take your negative attitude and... (insert favorite expletive here).

Really if you would like to critique the way I run a raid, come raid with me. Oh wait... I'd prolly decline you because I am an elitist prick. How's that for passive aggressive? LOL

[Sarisa]

It's been commented before, but it definitely seems that the Subterrane raids tend to be among the worst to run in a PUG.

Limited loot and low drop rates on tomes lead to those experienced at running them never going back once they hit their 20th run.

And the archer thing in VoD...is the reason that I'll go down there myself and solo open it. Get it done before someone comes in, screws up aggro, kills archers/devils, and the people falling and running around like mad chickens raise the alert to stupidly high levels.

[TheDearLeader]

And the archer thing in VoD...is the reason that I'll go down there myself and solo open it. Get it done before someone comes in, screws up aggro, kills archers/devils, and the people falling and running around like mad chickens raise the alert to stupidly high levels.

Yeah. I don't get it, really. They hit the ground, and immediately run as fast as they can to... I'm not sure where, because half of them don't know *how* to get back up. But they'll run as fast to their next destination of unknown as possible. Funny, because aside from AoV FvS, they could chug an invis pot/use a clickie, and keep that aggro and DA down at a manageable level.

I had one run to VoD where I was on my Bard and someone fell. I invised and jumped off after them. I then invised them, and told them in party chat to stay invis.

I literally invised them like another 200 times, because they literally *would not* stop attacking, and *would* attack each and every new mob we came upon. Alcohol may have been involved.

[ballsz]

Yeah. I don't get it, really. They hit the ground, and immediately run as fast as they can to... I'm not sure where, because half of them don't know *how* to get back up. But they'll run as fast to their next destination of unknown as possible. Funny, because aside from AoV FvS, they could chug an invis pot/use a clickie, and keep that aggro and DA down at a manageable level.

I had one run to VoD where I was on my Bard and someone fell. I invised and jumped off after them. I then invised them, and told them in party chat to stay invis.

I literally invised them like another 200 times, because they literally *would not* stop attacking, and *would* attack each and every new mob we came upon. Alcohol may have been involved.

I know right! Stay still if you don't know where you are going! LOL Can't tell you how many times I've said that to people, they just can't listen.

[Sarisa]

Yeah. I don't get it, really. They hit the ground, and immediately run as fast as they can to... I'm not sure where, because half of them don't know *how* to get back up. But they'll run as fast to their next destination of unknown as possible.

Usually into the trap...

As for HoX, barely anyone in the average PUG has any sort of Beholder protection (I know it's expensive to buy an Optic Nerve, but if you're going there, don't expect everyone to patch you up after EVERY encounter) and yet charge in first. Then scream out immediately, while a beholder is still alive flinging antimagic all around that they have negative levels.

Nice to see you succeed. I'm assuming the first fall was right before the transition between centre and east, not in east itself?

[CanuckWench]

As for HoX, barely anyone in the average PUG has any sort of Beholder protection (I know it's expensive to buy an Optic Nerve, but if you're going there, don't expect everyone to patch you up after EVERY encounter) and yet charge in first.

One and only answer to this is ...... Silver Flame Talisman found in Necro free and you just have to upgrade it If you are VIP tht is.

[Sarisa]

That is a great idea seriously, someone should start holding Sub-T explorer nights for fun or something.

I have run a few. Always went well, but they take a bunch of work to keep organized.

One and only answer to this is ...... Silver Flame Talisman found in Necro free and you just have to upgrade it

While this is the best, I don't expect everyone to have Necro 3, or to flag for Abbot and successfully run it three times to upgrade the necklace.

The Nerve is the only decent Beholder protection available to F2P+Vale+GH players, which are a large portion of the VoD/HoX PUG scene.

[Dracey]

Yeah. I don't get it, really. They hit the ground, and immediately run as fast as they can to... I'm not sure where, because half of them don't know *how* to get back up. But they'll run as fast to their next destination of unknown as possible. Funny, because aside from AoV FvS, they could chug an invis pot/use a clickie, and keep that aggro and DA down at a manageable level.

I had one run to VoD where I was on my Bard and someone fell. I invised and jumped off after them. I then invised them, and told them in party chat to stay invis.

I literally invised them like another 200 times, because they literally *would not* stop attacking, and *would* attack each and every new mob we came upon. Alcohol may have been involved.

Digressing from the original post but... I think this point on invisibility (sneak being the less efficient, but still viable alternative) needs to be stressed out more often in game, not just the forums, to all the weaker players (or decent players with weaker characters) out there. Less dungeon alert if all the lost souls just ran like invisible headless chickens. Visible headless chickens fluttering about The Subterrane will just attract them devils like a zombie hoard on a car alarm (l4d2)

(Asking them to stay where they're at never works)