spell DC

[erikbozelie]

is an DC of 38 still working great in epic?
i heard they changed the saves.

[Aashrym]

is an DC of 38 still working great in epic?
i heard they changed the saves.

It's still working but works much better targetting weak saves.

[Jaid314]

yeah, i would hesitate to describe it as working great, but it works. if you can debuff their saves first, it works even better.

[Alektronic]

Workable if your targeting a weak save... and debuffing on top of that. Honestly, I feel like 40+ territory (add a debuff on top of that) is the comfortable range for CC now. Unless your targeting a strong save oc.

[Aashrym]

40+ with debuffs isn't an accurate assessment, IMO.

The debuffs make up for the changes on their own. The times we would worry about higher dc's is if we can't kill the mobs before the debuff ends on repeat save spells like mass hold monster. With the change in mob hit points that's not been much of an issue in my experience.

On some of the easier epics 34 DC enchantments were hitting well enough before U9 so 38 DC still hits after U9. Not as well but it still hits and a debuff fixes that.

Obviously more is better but if we're looking at a base standard for epics then 38 will cover it.

[Enoach]

38 DC worked well for me pre U9 - still enjoying the 3rd life adventure on my caster so have not set foot in an epic post U9.

A couple notes:
The 38 DC is dependent on which save you are targeting. And as a caster we should be using the appropriate spell against the opponents weakest save regardless of how strong we are...

Now for some numbers:

If your DC is 38
Opponents Save

• 35 -> Saves on a 4 or Higher -> 15% chance to land
• 30 -> Saves on a 9 or Higher -> 30% chance to land
• 25 -> Saves on a 14 or Higher -> 65% chance to land
• 20 -> Saves on a 19 or Higher -> 80% chance to land

For every +1 to your DC you gain 5%

The difference between a 38 DC and 40 DC is 10% and between a 38 and 42 is 20%

Debuffs

1. Crushing Dispare gains you +25% chance to land a Will based save
2. Hypno gains you +15% to land a Will based save

If 40+ brings better than 75% success (3 out of 4 mobs stopped consistantly) then we can presume that the saves are somwhere betwee 25 and 30. Use of Crushing Dispare with a 38 DC would keep you in competition.

However, my journey into Epics has proved its more the Spell then the DC that matters.

Examples:

• VoN, House P, House D Epics and Desert - Hold Monster Mass worked well
• Red Fen Symbol of Suggestion, Web, Suggestion Mass, Dancing Ball worked better
• Wiz King - Halt Undead and Web

[erikbozelie]

thanks for the intell people.

[stille_nacht]

with 45 dc on my pale master, i just use hold, everywhere.