Make deepwood sniper closer to the actual PrC

[Maxson]

It's widely acknowledged that Deepwood sniper is /worse/ than arcane archer for averything other than flavour builds and splashing into rogue mechanics, interestingly, the original PrC that it's based on is very very good, see the active "sniper shot" ability is more or less a passive feat gained at level 2 of Deepwood sniper (if we assume progression of a PrE is 3 or 4 levels of the PrC per level of PrE then a Deepwood sniper I would receive:

Improved critical: Ranged
The current sneak attack range bonus
Hide/move silently +2
+1 to critical multiplier at ALL times.
+10% chance to bypass concealment/incorporealness (so miss chance on wraiths etc is only 40%)
Some form of bonus feat (many of the possible feats are not in DDO, so some other form of bonus might be easier, maybe give the "Sniper Shot" ability that's already in place instead of this)
Safe poison use (as poisons aren't in DDO there's not much point to this, maybe poisons SHOULD be in DDO, the deepwood sniper is essentially a ranged assassin, maybe an imbue arrow ability as with AA but just a few types (maybe the ability to add puncturing to any weapon at the cost of SP?)
+1 enhancement bonus to all shots fired (non-stacking, probably useless as +1 or better items aren't exactly rare in DDO)

I realise that this is probably erring on the side of overpowered rather than underpowered with these bonuses, and I wouldn't suggest all of them be in place, but I think the current "Sniper shot" should lose the +4 to hit and just be considered always on at the very least.

Further, a brief notion on Deepwood sniper II and III:

II:
A further +1 critical multiplier
a further 10 yards to the sneak attack range bonus
Further +1 hide
Further +1 move silently
Take AIM: Either a short term buff (like manyshot) or a reasonably long cooldown activate ability, gain +2 to hit and 2d6 bane damage (except on creatues which cannot be critted)

III:
+1 hide
+1 move silently
Increased critical threat range +1
A further 10% chance to bypass concealment/incorporealness
Take AIM Bonus increased to +4/4d6

Again: I know this takes DWS from very underpowered to pretty **** overpowered, I am not the council of game balancing, I've just always wanted to play a DWS but not wanted to be a total Gimp, though bow of sinew plus Sniper shot sounds pretty sweet.

[Mentalist]

Yeah I don't see why the critical threat and multiplier aren't passive. Artificiers are ridiculous in ranged combat can rangers get something? They are literally 10x more powerful.

[maddmatt70]

Yeah I don't see why the critical threat and multiplier aren't passive. Artificiers are ridiculous in ranged combat can rangers get something? They are literally 10x more powerful.

Not sure about this at all.. I am not even sure artificers are as powerful as rangers. Not saying deepwood sniper should not be overhauled just that do not buy the artificers are better at ranged combat argument..

[smeggy1384]

Not sure about this at all.. I am not even sure artificers are as powerful as rangers. Not saying deepwood sniper should not be overhauled just that do not buy the artificers are better at ranged combat argument..

My arti is 17 now, i've not run with any arcane archers at my level. Still doing some pretty nice damage, but i have no slayer arrows, explosive arrows, force explosion ones(forget the name on that). Can i beat a ranger at ranged damage? Not sure it matters. The point is to work as a team and finish the quests. I can imbue the heck out of my groups weapons, including the ranger. 1-6 elementals, or various Dr breakers..

If one really wanted to compare my bet is i'd probably fall behind the ranger on a per hit basis, str can stack up to some pretty high numbers(bow str vs int to damage spell), and further behind when they use manyshot. Not to mention rangers are usually not as squishy as a 1d6 hitpoint class.

Early game, ya.. rangers get left in the dust on ranged damage. Oh, and they don't have pets. Still like my AA ranger.

[Aesop]

I would modify this up a little bit I think.

Maybe have tier 1 grant Improved Critical as the Feat in addition to Take Aim and the Hide move Silent and Spot bonus and a +2 passive damage bonus and a +1 to hit bonus

Take Aim 1 could improve the Crit Multiplier by 1 and improve the Base Damage Die by +1 similar to Point Blank Shot. a basic Long Bow would be 2d8(3d8 within PBS range) as well as a +4 to hit.

tier 2 could have the bonus to skills a passive +1 Vorpal Multiplier (nat 20 confirm would be x4) an additional +2 damage bonus and another +1 to hit bonus and tier 2 of Take Aim

Take Aim 2 could improve tier 1 by improving the Crit Range by 1, the Base Damage Die by another +1, and the bonus to hit could become +6. so...

3d8+4 Base Damage 18-19 x4 20 x5 with +8 to hit

tier 3 could have the bonus to skills, bonus to hit and damage (+1/+2), +1 Crit Multiplier, +1 Base Damage Die, Vorpal (as the weapon effect... so when there is still hp over 1000 they take an extra 100 damage) and Take Aim 3


Take Aim 3 additional +1 Crit Multiplier, +1 Damage Die, +8 to hit


that looks a bit messy lets do this out more based on a normal long bow


Tier 1:
+1 Spot, Move Silent, Hide
+1 To Hit
+2 Damage
Improved Critical
Take Aim 1

Tier 2:
+2 Spot, Move Silent, Hide
+2 To Hit
+4 Damage
Improved Critical
+1 Natural 20 Multiplier
Take Aim 2

Tier 3:
+3 Spot, Move Silent, Hide
+3 To Hit
+6 Damage
Improved Critical
+1 Natural 20 Multiplier
+1 Critical Multiplier
+1 Base Damage Die
Vorpal Shot
Take Aim 3



Take Aim 1:
+4 To Hit
+1 Base Damage Die
+1 Critical Multiplier

Take Aim 2:
+6 To Hit
+2 Base Damage Die
+1 Critical Range
+1 Critical Multiplier

Take Aim 3:
+8 To Hit
+3 Base Damage Die
+1 Critical Range
+2 Critical Multiplier



So At Tier 3 with a Normal Long Bow Taking Aim

+11 To Hit
+6 to Damage
+4 Base Damage Die (4d8)
18-19 Critical Range
x6 Multiplier
20 Critical
x7 Multiplier
Vorpal


or something like that

Aesop

[Grenada]

So At Tier 3 with a Normal Long Bow Taking Aim

+11 To Hit
+6 to Damage
+4 Base Damage Die (4d8)
18-19 Critical Range
x6 Multiplier
20 Critical
x7 Multiplier
Vorpal Old vorpal or pathetic new one?


or something like that

Aesop

Sounded all good. one comment in red

[Aesop]

Sounded all good. one comment in red

I figured keep it current with the new one. I know people aren't overly thrilled with it but with the extra multiplier on nat 20s already I figured it wouldn't be too bad.

Honestly I think they should up the damage on Vorpals to 150-200... maybe even as a range.

Aesop

[Requiro]

I agree

This is my suggestion (from my thread) that I post some time ago:

Level 6 Deepwood Sniper I (4 AP)

• +1 Hide, Move Silently, Spot
• Sneak Attack and PBS: Work within 25 meters
• Ability (active): Sniper Shoot I: Special, One tactic shoot with:
  
  • +4 to hit, +2 to critical threat range, +1 to critical threat multiplier
  • Reduce target fortification by 2%. Duration: 5 sec. (Stack with everything)
  • Colddown: 10 sec
• Ability (passive): Keen Edges: Add Keen property to the weapon (won’t stack with Keen property on weapons or Improve Critical feat)
• Ability (passive): Head Shoot: On Vorpal strike (roll 20) add extra 4d4 + 2d4/ranger level untyped damage.

Level 12 Deepwood Sniper II (2 AP)

• +1 Hide, Move Silently, Spot
• Sneak Attack and PBS: Work within 30 meters
• Ability (active): Sniper Shoot II: Special, One tactic shoot with:
  
  • +6 to hit, +4 to critical threat range, +2 to critical threat multiplier
  • Reduce target fortification by 4%. Duration: 5 sec. (Stack with everything)
  • Colddown: 8 sec
  • Replace Sniper Shoot I
• Ability (passive): Magical Weapon: Add Maiming property to the weapon (stack with everything)
• Ability (passive): Magical Critics: Add Seeker +4 property to the weapon (stack with everything)

Level 18 Deepwood Sniper III (2 AP)

• +1 Hide, Move Silently, Spot
• Sneak Attack and PBS: Work within 35 meters
• Ability (active): Sniper Shoot III: Special, One tactic shoot with:
  
  • +8 to hit, +6 to critical threat range, +3 to critical threat multiplier
  • Reduce target fortification by 6%. Duration: 5 sec. (Stack with everything)
  • Colddown: 6 sec
  • Replace Sniper Shoot II
• Ability (passive): Better Criticals: +1 critical threat range and multiplier (Stack with everything)

--- Special note: Every bonus from Deepwood Sniper work only on ranged weapon, which uses projectile missile (any Bows, any Crossbows) ---

[Qezuzu]

Do note that DWS prevents the use of Arcane Archer and Slaying Arrows. That's -25 to damage, so you could make DWS a bit more powerful than you think.

+6 to crit multiplier already exists with Bowbarians. I wouldn't see it as too crazy to give Rangers this option. They're supposed to be the kings of (physical) ranged damage, and right now, as a pure class, they're rather weak.