Changing plan on my FVS, would like feedback

[Diyon]

Okay so I recently decided to try out FVS and decided I was going with a melee build using scimitars, with some okay-ish casting ability.

My original plan was:
-Race: elf
-Stats: 16 STR, 15 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 14 WIS, 9 CHA
-Level build: 20 fvs (that DR was looking nice)
-Feats: Toughness, Empower Spell, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Imp. Crit: slashing, Power Attack

However after running a bit I started to have some second thoughts on that plan.

New plan:
-Level build: 18/2 fvs/monk (for evasion and the feats)
-Feats: Add 2 of- Extend? (really leaning on this one for the short term buffs) Quicken? Maximize? Empower Healing?

[Ngha]

Okay so I recently decided to try out FVS and decided I was going with a melee build using scimitars, with some okay-ish casting ability.

My original plan was:
-Race: elf
-Stats: 16 STR, 15 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 14 WIS, 9 CHA
-Level build: 20 fvs (that DR was looking nice)
-Feats: Toughness, Empower Spell, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Imp. Crit: slashing, Power Attack

However after running a bit I started to have some second thoughts on that plan.

New plan:
-Level build: 18/2 fvs/monk (for evasion and the feats)
-Feats: Add 2 of- Extend? (really leaning on this one for the short term buffs) Quicken? Maximize? Empower Healing?

Wow um. Melee FvS with evasion... No to extend. Quicken and Maximize yes. Using same stats as before? I guess thats fine for twf.

[Diyon]

Wow um. Melee FvS with evasion... No to extend. Quicken and Maximize yes. Using same stats as before? I guess thats fine for twf.

Yes same stats. Are melee fvs with evasion unusual? I generally recall seeing quite a few with this level split. Although I guess they might not all be melee spec'd.

[Sequell]

Okay so I recently decided to try out FVS and decided I was going with a melee build using scimitars, with some okay-ish casting ability.

My original plan was:
-Race: elf
-Stats: 16 STR, 15 DEX, 14 CON, 8 INT, 14 WIS, 9 CHA
-Level build: 20 fvs (that DR was looking nice)
-Feats: Toughness, Empower Spell, TWF, ITWF, GTWF, Imp. Crit: slashing, Power Attack

However after running a bit I started to have some second thoughts on that plan.

New plan:
-Level build: 18/2 fvs/monk (for evasion and the feats)
-Feats: Add 2 of- Extend? (really leaning on this one for the short term buffs) Quicken? Maximize? Empower Healing?

My first question is why?

Do you want to be a self-sufficient melee? If so this is way below par

Do you want to be a group healer? If so...not gonna happen with this

Do you want to raid heal? If so...again not gonna happen

Looking to do everything your class does but less effectively than a good build...thats what you are getting with this.

I am not attempting to be mean or snide in my comments...I have played FvS's alot, and I have one I play frequently at endgame.

I will give you advice on something more effective if you decide one of the following:

Want to cast DC spells?
Want to melee?

Built properly you can heal any quest in the game extremely well.

[Sequell]

Yes same stats. Are melee fvs with evasion unusual? I generally recall seeing quite a few with this level split. Although I guess they might not all be melee spec'd.

FvS's with Evasion from 2 monk levels are generally Wisdom based for the AC bonuses as well as nice saves.

65+ AC is a joke to get with a Wis Based FvS with almost no gear at all.

Not saying 60's AC is great but it is nice thru Vale stuff usually, and is really great soloing with a FvS because of DA.

[Diyon]

FvS's with Evasion from 2 monk levels are generally Wisdom based for the AC bonuses as well as nice saves.

65+ AC is a joke to get with a Wis Based FvS with almost no gear at all.

Not saying 60's AC is great but it is nice thru Vale stuff usually, and is really great soloing with a FvS because of DA.

I had absolutely no interest in AC from the monk splash, I understand that AC becomes pretty useless later on. The monk splash was so that A) I get a couple more feats so that I can fit the TWF and melee feats in and still get some metamagics, and B) evasion to compensate for the loss of the fvs DR.

Yes I would love some advice, hence posting here.

I wasn't really aiming for DC based casting. Melee'ing as the primary mode here, possibly casting some none DC based spells (like searing light, divine punishment) and I figure using blade barrier is probably still a good idea lol (why I did take some wisdom, so my DC wouldn't be utter ****).

Please explain where I've gone so horribly wrong here though. Saying I'm not meeting this, or not going to be able to pull off that, is fine, but I want to know specifically why that is. Only thing that jumps out obviously in my new plan is that maybe I have too much WIS.

Can I not make a decent twf scimitar using melee FvS?

[Sequell]

I had absolutely no interest in AC from the monk splash, I understand that AC becomes pretty useless later on. The monk splash was so that A) I get a couple more feats so that I can fit the TWF and melee feats in and still get some metamagics, and B) evasion to compensate for the loss of the fvs DR.

Yes I would love some advice, hence posting here.

I wasn't really aiming for DC based casting. Melee'ing as the primary mode here, possibly casting some none DC based spells (like searing light, divine punishment) and I figure using blade barrier is probably still a good idea lol (why I did take some wisdom, so my DC wouldn't be utter ****).

Please explain where I've gone so horribly wrong here though. Saying I'm not meeting this, or not going to be able to pull off that, is fine, but I want to know specifically why that is. Only thing that jumps out obviously in my new plan is that maybe I have too much WIS.

Can I not make a decent twf scimitar using melee FvS?

Ok, I can see evasion is cool...extra monk feats are nice if you are dead set on being a TWFer.

With a 14 base Wis you may as well dump it...I know it sounds crazy but it is the way of casting...you are either Maxxed in your casting stat or there is no reason to have anything in it.

As far as lacking in certain departments:

-Healing-
Missing feats for healing effectiveness (Empower Healing, or Maximize)
Lower SP than a normal caster type FvS

-Melee-
No extend for Divine Power (which you will be using alot as a melee)
Low HP compared to normal melee classses
Low DPS compared to normal melee classes


If you are going for flavor then go for it.

There is a reason the most popular builds ARE the most popular. It is becuase they work very well.

Melee FvS - Make a WF THF that can heal anything he wants and melee his ass off.
Caster FvS - Human or Dwarf with max Wis and high Con...run down the hall, cast BB, hit your wings, cast BB and kill anything thats left over.

Just my thoughts and insights from my experience in game.

[Diyon]

Ok, I can see evasion is cool...extra monk feats are nice if you are dead set on being a TWFer.

Well I felt like making a FvS, and have some of those brigand cutlasses t3 and epic that are picking up dust. FvS has feats and enhancements that increase scimitar damage.

With a 14 base Wis you may as well dump it...I know it sounds crazy but it is the way of casting...you are either Maxxed in your casting stat or there is no reason to have anything in it.

As I said, this was one thing that I could see having messed up with. On the other hand, with the monk splash and the right, I could switch gear and into water stance and only be behind by about 5 wisdom (less if I happen to have +exceptional and you compare to one that doesn't) than a pure fvs. Which only translates to 2-3 (maybe less depending on the comparison) less of a DC, which I don't think will make or break a fvs.

As far as lacking in certain departments:

-Healing-
Missing feats for healing effectiveness (Empower Healing, or Maximize)
Lower SP than a normal caster type FvS

I DID list empower healing and/or maximize in my new plan. I was trying to figure out which two (of the list above I should add now that monk is opening two more feat options.

-Melee-
No extend for Divine Power (which you will be using alot as a melee)
See above
Low HP compared to normal melee classses
I get a d8 HD right? How am I going to have less hp than an average monk or rogue?
Low DPS compared to normal melee classes
Please explain exactly why here

If you are going for flavor then go for it.

There is a reason the most popular builds ARE the most popular. It is becuase they work very well.

Melee FvS - Make a WF THF that can heal anything he wants and melee his ass off.
Don't have WF, and well, I still get weapon damage/melee enhancements off of elf
Caster FvS - Human or Dwarf with max Wis and high Con...run down the hall, cast BB, hit your wings, cast BB and kill anything thats left over.

Just my thoughts and insights from my experience in game.

Comments in blue.

Thanks for the advice. As I said, I'm adding two feats. I'm leaning towards extend and then maybe quicken or empower heal. Maybe maximize? I'm not really sure.

[Namey]

If I was working on a similar TWF melee build, I'd consider human + longswords instead and elf. While the base weapon for it is worse, I'd say that the much more relevant +Str, Con or Wis combined with more Racial Toughness makes it worth it. The extra feat also allows you more room to fit both the TWF and casting feats.

[Crann]

Look up Impaqt's FvS builds, he is generally considered the authority in these parts on all things FvS.

Alot of the questions/concerns you have are discussed there by some very experienced players.

You will get some pretty good insight as to the why's and how's of playing a FvS, along with a few different, extremely solid, builds.


My advice to you as a new divine player is to go caster based.

Try his Evoker build, it is extremely newb friendly, and requires no uber gear and tomes. It has great DPS potential, so you are not really missing much from a weaker melee ability.

Cap one, you will learn far more playing and seeing how the different feats/enhancement come together.

Going this route will also give you the experience, and a viable character, neccessary to learn how to be good raid/epic healer.

Fullfilling multiple roles with one character is complicated, and to do so effectively, you need to really understand how each of those roles works independantly.

If you want a melee, then roll a Kensai or a FB Barb, you will see how their numbers add up from various feats and enhancements, and you will understand why no FvS is ever going to be able compare from a pure melee DPS standpoint.

[~Sephera]

I don't normally reply to post's on here, but thought I would share my fvs build. I am a lvl 20 fvs. I went elf to use scimitar's. I have TR'd her to get a few extra points


Feats:
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Toughness
Quicken
Maximize

Stat's:
BASE: END
STR 23 35
DEX 15 18
CON 14 22
INT 8 10
WIS 8 18
CHA 11 24

Unbuffed I have 442 hp, and 2863 sp

I have solo healed the shroud, and VoD with no problem while still being up there as a melee. I do use some spells like bb, searing light, implosion, energy drain. Plus have the buffs to give to the party.

[Diyon]

I don't normally reply to post's on here, but thought I would share my fvs build. I am a lvl 20 fvs. I went elf to use scimitar's. I have TR'd her to get a few extra points


Feats:
TWF
ITWF
GTWF
Toughness
Quicken
Maximize

Stat's:
BASE: END
STR 23 35
DEX 15 18
CON 14 22
INT 8 10
WIS 8 18
CHA 11 24

Unbuffed I have 442 hp, and 2863 sp

I have solo healed the shroud, and VoD with no problem while still being up there as a melee. I do use some spells like bb, searing light, implosion, energy drain. Plus have the buffs to give to the party.

This makes me feel a little better about where I'm going, thank you.

I will have to look up some of these threads when I get time.

Still would like general advice and possibly the selection for those two feats though.

[Illiain]

This makes me feel a little better about where I'm going, thank you.

I will have to look up some of these threads when I get time.

Still would like general advice and possibly the selection for those two feats though.

I have a similar build to the one above. Drop IC:slash and stick with Min2s and epic Kron'Zek's Cruelty. They may not be the highest dps weapon, but you can also afford the whole smite/smite crit lines along with the healing/healing crit line, for more spell damage. Also take AoV, you won't regret it.

You'll want Maximize/Quicken for casting. I do notice Heal is a little weaker than I'd prefer when healing Horoth tanks, unless they're high AC/Healing amp builds, then you can easily scroll heal them. Other than that one part, everything else is easy with just Maximize and Ardor clickies.

If you do decide to take an 18/2 splash I recommend Empower or Empower Healing. The last feat could be your choice of Extend or fit IC:Slash back in to use Lit2's.

[Diyon]

I have a similar build to the one above. Drop IC:slash and stick with Min2s and epic Kron'Zek's Cruelty. They may not be the highest dps weapon, but you can also afford the whole smite/smite crit lines along with the healing/healing crit line, for more spell damage. Also take AoV, you won't regret it.

You'll want Maximize/Quicken for casting. I do notice Heal is a little weaker than I'd prefer when healing Horoth tanks, unless they're high AC/Healing amp builds, then you can easily scroll heal them. Other than that one part, everything else is easy with just Maximize and Ardor clickies.

If you do decide to take an 18/2 splash I recommend Empower or Empower Healing. The last feat could be your choice of Extend or fit IC:Slash back in to use Lit2's.

Thanks. I do already have empower (I took that one as my only metamagic in the original plan as fvs has an enhancement for that one). I want IC because I'd like to make use of the epic t3 brigand's cutlasses I have.

So like I said, kind of leaning towards extend and then either quicken or maximize.

[Krumm]

with 2 monk levels, I would recommend the following.

1 max
3 emp
6 qui
9
mo1 tough
mo2 twf
12 ic:slash
15 itwf
18 gtwf

for level 9 feat (or just the 1 left over)...
for healing -> empower healing
for offensive casting -> heighten
for better melee -> PA (and consider switching empower to extend)

You don't have to take the levels/feats in the order I listed but free monk feats are somewhat limited and have to be taken into account.

Hope this helps

[Diyon]

with 2 monk levels, I would recommend the following.

1 max
3 emp
6 qui
9
mo1 tough
mo2 twf
12 ic:slash
15 itwf
18 gtwf

for level 9 feat (or just the 1 left over)...
for healing -> empower healing
for offensive casting -> heighten
for better melee -> PA (and consider switching empower to extend)

You don't have to take the levels/feats in the order I listed but free monk feats are somewhat limited and have to be taken into account.

Hope this helps

I'm leaning towards

TWF
ITWF
GTWF
IC: Slash
PA
Extend

And then I'm still debating the last two. I hadn't thought to much about dropping empower in favor of something else, but I'm more than capable of making whatever feat changes necessary at this point to do what I need. (The shards for feat changes at lvl7 are not a problem for me, so I can adjust for the monk feats as necessary from where I'm at)

[Crann]

Do you ever plan on raid healing?

If so quicken and at least one of either maximize or empower healing is neccessary. Your healing will be too weak to keep a party alive without Max/Emp. Healing, and there will be too much time between them without quicken.

If not, then do you plan on soloing alot?

If so, then quicken is almost a must if you plan on meleeing while you are self healing. Having a group of Orthons in a Sins run peppering you with their wrist Gatlin guns will mean never getting a spell off.

It looks like you have a good melee build going here, and if that is all you are looking for ok.

Unfortunately, no one is going to be looking for a good melee build for their raids, they either want a great melee build, or a good raid healer.

[voodoogroves]

For an 18/2 split with 9 feats I'd do ...

Toughness
Improved Crit
Power Attack
TxF, ITxF, GTxF
Quicken
Maximize
Empower or Empower Healing

- If you going AoV 2 for the archon, I'd take Empower
- If you can't fit it in or aren't bothering (some FVS don't bother because of the other AP they want), I'd take Empower Healing

[Raoull]

I run a melee clonk, so its not too far from what you're looking at. A few notes:

Spell points.... ignore people who worry about the loss of 2 lvls of SP. You'll still have more than a straight cleric.

Feats.... in order to heal at end game, quicken is simply not optional. I also recommend Empower Healing. Maximize/Empower don't work on Mass Heal, which is the heal spell I cast the most by far (other common healing I do is scroll heal, aura and bursts). The other masses are really only for when MH is on cooldown, and if you have melees with decent HPs, you won't need them. Maximize is very useful to me too... but offensively, for BB and DP rather than for any cures.

Not having extend is a bit annoying while keeping up DPower/DF, but since the change to BB, I don't think its worth a feat on a toon as feat strapped as a TWF melee divine.

But... I will mention at end game, while soloing... casting is more powerful. In a group, it depends on situation (although probably still leans towards caster). Just be sure to have melee-esque HPs so you can beat on Harry and the like while casting MH and DP.