ability damaging weapons: useful?

[cru121]

weakening / maladroit / wounding of bonebreaking / puncturing / enfeebling

I've seen some older threads about how Wounding of Puncturing used to rock; some tips to use strength reducers for beholders, etc. Are ability damaging weapons useful currently? Which and where?

These enhancements are rather easily craftable (levels 28-50), kinda on the way to other desired shards. Should I craft me a str-reducing falchion, con-reducing rapier, dex-reducing..something? Should I use any special material? E.g. byeshk falchion for beholders?

Thanks in advance for your expert opinions.

[Rusty_Can]

I've seen some older threads about how Wounding of Puncturing used to rock

Ya, because zero Con used to mean death, which is not the case anymore.

Are ability damaging weapons useful currently? Which and where?

I guess that, depending on how you play your characters, those weapons can be situationally useful, especially if you attack mobs' "weak" abilities, bringing them to helpless status.

However, keep in mind that red-named foes can only take 10 points of damage per ability and purple-named foes are immune.

[somenewnoob]

I've never used or needed one on my fighter. Disclaimer on that is that I am not at end game content or epics, not sure about their usefulness there.

[Jaid314]

still useful. a mob reduced to 0 points in a stat becomes helpless. caster types lose the ability to cast spells, and all mobs while helpless take 50% more damage.

the real question is not whether they're useful (they are)... it's whether they're *more* useful than your other options.

against enemies like beholders, weakening of enfeebling is worthwhile. against the more annoying oozes (mainly living spells), it can also be very worthwhile. in fact, oozes tend to have extremely low strength and dex, as i recall, so a weakening or maladroit weapon (of everbright) can be quite handy.

but that doesn't mean there aren't *better* weapons out there (whether or not you have said better weapons is another matter entirely). as a general rule, the lower your DPS, the better these weapons become. they can also be slightly more valuable on something like a rogue if you pull aggro, because you can often quickly reduce a target to 0 in a stat and then you get to sneak attack them.

but, if you're a high-strength, DPS-focused barbarian and you own a min II or lit II... well, go with the greensteel. if you're a rogue and you have radiance... go with the greensteel.

so, basically... yes, they're useful, no you don't need them, but you may find them worthwhile to carry around occasionally to use on certain annoying trash enemies. oh, and if you do epics at all, then they go from being occasionally useful to almost never useful in epics.

[dkyle]

Stat damagers are pretty limited use. They only work on trash, but most trash dies quickly from decent DPS anyway. Or a caster with insta-kills.

And the place where stat damagers would be most useful, epics, they're not, because epic creatures get a hefty ward against it.

Strength Sappers, however, have some use, as they can make bosses helpless, in combination with stat penalty spells.


In general, though, I wouldn't bother with stat damagers on a non-TWF. And Beholders don't have Byeshk DR, only Mindflayers. So a Wounding Byeshk Falchion of Puncturing doesn't seem especially useful, to me.

[Maxelcat]

I still use puncturing on selective trash. mostly casters cause the combo of already low con and regular damage kills em pretty quick.

nothing makes me happier than death by con loss.

[Inferno346]

E.g. byeshk falchion for beholders?

Beholders don't actually have DR, but mindflayers do.

I used to use maladroit weapons on certain bosses with evasion when my cleric's BB dc was much lower, but now I never do because of divine punishment and a higher DC. I have weakeners on my other, melee-focused cleric, but never remember to use them on the few beholders I fight... STR-sapping, waves of exhaustion, and that symbol spell that reduces STR used to be very useful to get certain bosses to autocrit, like the demon at the end of epic Into the Deeps, but that no longer works.

In short, I think ability damagers are almost completely obsolete in end-game content.

[Sarisa]

They're gradually being reduced in usefulness at time goes by. What still is useful, however, are:

• Strength damage against non-red Beholders, since when you reduce their strength to zero, it puts them into a helpless/vulnerable state. All damage dealt to them (except sneak attack) is increased, and they cannot use their eyebeams. They will still anti-magic you, but being able to keep them from firing off disintegrates can help when you're solo'ing/shortmanning some content. Or, the extremely high HP orange named Beholder in New Invasion. Dex damage also works, but will require a few more hits than strength damage to make them vulnerable.
• Dexterity damage on some high HP bosses with evasion, to lower their reflex saves. I used this heavily against certain bosses (green devil Saligia in Sins for instance) before Divine Punishment existed, in order to let Blade Barrier hit more often and for more damage. Note that red named mobs cannot be lowered less than 10 points of damage, and if applicable, cannot be lowered below 1 in any stat BY STAT DAMAGE.
• Constitution damage can come in mildly useful in letting Flesh to Stone land on certain annoying trash mobs more easily. A minor point, since usually Enervate/Energy Drain is enough and epic mobs are highly resistant to stat damage. It can also still lower their max HP temporarily.
• Wisdom damage (the huge sword from 'Missing') is very good to use against some self healing trash mobs, as it can make them unable to cast their heals. Most useful in Running with the Devils.
• I thought there was a Charisma damage weapon, but I can't find its name at the moment.

Note that using stat damage can make any of a mobs abilities dependent on that stat (damage for str, AC for dex, Cometfall DC's for wis) lower, so it can still be worthwhile in "borderline" groups.

Strength Sapping is a different effect. It imparts a strength and dex penalty, which works differently from stat damage. These USED to make certain red named bosses vulnerable (in auto-crit status before update 9), when combined with Waves of Exhaustion and Ray of Enfeeblement. Post update 9, at least in epics, it appears that formerly vulnerable mobs cannot have their stat penalties reduced below 1 as well. I also tested against red named dream 'wraiths' in IQ/DD, who used to be extremely easy to put into autocrit, and I was unable to get them vulnerable post update 9.


Most of the time, Beholders go down so fast that making them vulnerable isn't really worth it outside the one in hard/elite New Invasion. In full groups, other trash, including self healers, can be killed fast enough that it's rarely worth using a stat damager.

Since red named bosses no longer are fully affected by stat penalty (Waves/Strength Sapping/...) and stat damage effects, the only real use of them now is to lower incoming damage and the bosses AC.

[cru121]

Thanks for your help. If that's a factor, I am a casual player, lvl 12 dipped warchanter with 27 STR, solo with hireling quite often.

I'm going to make me a strength reducing falchion and try that out in Invaders! someday. We shall see if its better than bloody cleaver.

[Sarisa]

Thanks for your help. If that's a factor, I am a casual player, lvl 12 dipped warchanter with 27 STR, solo with hireling quite often.

I'm going to make me a strength reducing falchion and try that out in Invaders! someday. We shall see if its better than bloody cleaver.

If you're not averse to grouping instead of solo'ing, any Ranger (doesn't matter if they're melee or bow spec'ed) using a Paralyzer or a strength damaging bow is excellent in there. Invaders is one of the quests in the game where a GOOD bow user can make it a breeze.

You can use a strength damaging bow as well, but it will be less effective than a Ranger with Manyshot and Improved Precise Shot.