Real differences between Barb and Fighter

[Soldarm]

..Burp!!

[stille_nacht]

lol.

I run epics spamming it non stop ,and always out kill casters.. If your getting outkilled that badly by all casters, learn to play better, nuff said.

shade... not everyone has 80 str and eSoS, whatnot :[

also, those casters probably werent that good if this is epic, ever since stable dc 45 wails could kill stuff in epic, even with the cooldown nerf, very hardpressed to outkill.

[Khanyth]

Hey Khanyth!!

Just got to 20 with my barbarian, now I have my biceps recognized as overlarge slabs of ham!!!!

Be proud. Be very proud.

[loki_3369]

The way this thread went (FF=Fighter Fans, BF= Barbarian Fans, RF= Rogue Fans):

BF: Barbs are better

FF: No they're not Fighters are better

BF: Nope.

FF: Well, they're almost as good.

BF: No.

FF: Um...

RF: Rogues are the best Yay.

BF: No.

RF: ...

FF: We're close for 20 seconds a quest!

BF: ...We'll give you that.

*Insert pic of Conan standing on top of decapitated Highlander here*

Rofl... Surely you know any fighter can easily get 11+ haste boosts. Which is more than enough to make it through any quest I've ever encountered (even before casters were wailing their way through epics). And my math may not be the best, but I believe 11+ boosts equates to a little more than 20 seconds .

[loki_3369]

Souunds extremely boring to me.

He's said it himself many times "bosses die fast before my haste boost run out"

Yet quests rarely end so fast.
How much fun is only playing the game for 10-20% of the tiem and piking the other 90%?

Sounds really boring to me.

I kill everything. Every mob dead faster is 1 step closer to the endfight faster, or an epic scroll.

So its more like
"I cant compete on trash anymore, so my opinion will change to support my favourite classes only purpose"
Which is certain admirable.

Btw the arguemetn is pretty flawed anyways, most challenging mob fights have trash.. And in my groups usually melee handle em at least to some degree.
ToD: Even when im tanking horoth, i get the odd orthon kill, some cleaves speed that up.
Abbot: Quells around the abbot messing with my healers are no good, they need to die fast.
Sorjeks: Numerous mephits
VoD: Trash is almost continously around suulo, cleave and glancing blows really do well here.
Velah: Here's a fight where casters are often very good vs the trash.. But sometimes in pugs I get really poor caster, so I handle the trash. Why not kill em nearly twice as fast with supreme cleave.
could go on.

The point is, this isn't a single target game. Your fooling yourself if you try say otherwise.

Lol. Shade, Shade, Shade... You have some really good ideas sometimes, but your stubborness is incredible. I already realize there is no point in trying to argue with you Shade, so I won't even attempt to.

I really don't understand how you can say that sounds boring after having what, like 4-5 barbarians? >.> But whatever, if that's what you like to play by all means. I've had a barbarian (currently in a TR), and he was much more boring to play than my fighter, but each to his own.

AoE dps hasn't been relevant (on my server anyway) since epic ward was removed. Unless you're running with a poor caster, I rarely see more than maybe one mob survive a wail due. And usually the casters I run with finger a mob that manages to save on wail.

I don't see much that really requires supreme cleave to be spammed... VoD orthons are the only thing I can think of tbh. But feel free to educate me with your almighty wisdom.

As Durnak explained earlier, dpsing trash instead of Velah usually isn't a good thing. However, in the rare case you get a caster who can't manage to drop an ice storm or whatnot on the rock to aggro the trash... I suppose you gotta do what you gotta do.

I am not sure why you claim fighters pike 90% of the time. Maybe I missed a previous comment or something. Though I'm leaning more towards the fact you haven't actually played a capped fighter.

And as far as DDO not being a "single target game" you are generally correct. However, most end fights are done in a specific way where casters deal with trash while the rest of the dps beats on the main boss. Now call me crazy, but that seems pretty relevant to single target combat.


I do believe barbarians have their uses and so do fighters. People will, and should, play what they enjoy. If you enjoy barbarians, play them. If you enjoy fighters, play them. Etc.


/Meh. As a guildy of mine likes to say quite often: "Haters gonna hate".

More towards the point of the thread, I am too lazy to do the actual math.... But Shade's dps challenge pretty accurately shows burst single target damage. Obviously with a frenzied berserker spamming supreme cleave in a large group of mobs they will do more AoE damage (despite how rare that occasion is end-game).

Assuming the same gear/buffs fighters will almost always do more burst damage to single targets while barbarians do more sustainable/AoE damage.

[Malky]

Just for fun : according to shade, turbine should rename the barb class into 'Spinning Dervish'...

i.e. drop that mari chain and wear a robe now if you want to stay in line with the lore

[EustaceTrevelyan]

almost no one cares about AC at end game. I have never played a fighter to high levels but from what i can gather fighter has great burst DPS with haste boost, lots of hp and oodles of delicious bonus feats. Barbs have even more hp, faster moment with the static bonus and sprint boost, the ability to use any melee weapon they want just fine (almost no specialization) and better long term DPS with super long rages and endless frenzys. As long as they have healing support a barbarian is pretty much the energizer bunny from hell. key words "healing support".

I would appreciate someone with a fighter saying something for the fighters advantages.

Fighter has more versatility, and if you're done grinding GS, ToD, epics, etc, then we have the bestest grind of all: AC gear!

But you have so many feats and more splashing options with ftr. But if you just want to hit things (and i have a character that loves doing that and is highly skilled), barb might be up yer alley. Oh, yeah, and the healing thing, if yer a barb, need healing support/looots of pots. Ftrs can do damage without hurting themselves and sounding like they're having a fit.

[Malky]

More on topic:

Both classes are hard hitters
Both classes can tank bosses when built properly
Both classes perform well if the player performs well

But there is one real difference between a pure barb and a pure fighter : the barb runs faster, and that's about it imho.

[Khanyth]

But there is one real difference between a pure barb and a pure fighter : the barb runs faster, and that's about it imho.

Clearly you missed the "Overlarge slabs of Ham" aspect of pure barb lifestyle

[Malky]

Clearly you missed the "Overlarge slabs of Ham" aspect of pure barb lifestyle

Ok, i acknowledge that barbs cannot be vegetarians... what else ?

[Khanyth]

Ok, i acknowledge that barbs cannot be vegetarians... what else ?

That no one else can be when they witness our biceps in action.

[Dreadmaster1993]

I would appreciate someone with a fighter saying something for the fighters advantages.

playing both :

barbs take the're hits from str mod while fighter takes it from feats, (fighter gets masyvely more dmg and atk rolss due feats and str)
barb use rage to boost str , fighter uses kensei strugle for +8 str , wich makes the fighter ghets more agn
barb can only use hatse for atk speed boost , fighter can use action boosts for another 40% speed
fighter can only use the x3 multiplier from greatace or maul, barb can hit x6 multipler on 19-20 roll
fighter has insane crit rate, barb not

thats prty mutsh the part for dmg
the're perfectly equal in this vision if you ask me

now the defensive part :

barb have med armor and dr up to 15(if freaking on it)
fighter has heavy armor, tower shields, sd ac boost , max dex boost, and can reach the ac that mathers (rly fun to see mobs rol 15 and have gancing blows)

general part ;

barb needs to stay at 20 barb to benefit al of it
fighter can easely multyclass and having most of the fighter needs at lvl 12 making them more suitable for special builds

fighter can keep on casting , barb not (also using clickies and wands) making fighter more suitable to selfheal when needed

hope this post helps for ya

[Miow]

I use cleave and great cleave on my kensai it's awesome with a lit2 and doesn't break the attack chain, it also get's the chain moving faster after a haste or strength boost

[Postumus]

I'm very curious to see this but my barb is only level 4 . . . can we see a video?

You know how casters run around to gather up the mobs so they wail them a dozen at a time? That's what supreme cleave does with no cool down.


Spinning death machine.


It's extremely effective albeit a bit boring to hit rage then the supreme cleave hotkey over and over until everything is dead.

[Emili]

A.) Thd, ithf, gth, ic: x, PA, cleave, toughness (or stunning blow. ...)

B.) twf, itwf, gtwf, ic: x, PA, wf, ws, gwf, gws, swf, toughness + five or six other feats

In light A's supreme cleave, death frenzy, frenzy are really the fun things on a A. well at least from my viewpoint. May be the aoe spinning aspect but... not so long ago reality set in – what I enjoy about it was those things make it more "B." like for me.

... and the real reason I enjoy the B. class, which btw seem to grow more narrow and less exciting each update is B.'s feat space, unfortunately the dev's do a lot of devaluing them thru the enhancement system and scope of adding more of what used to be "feat" advantage to every class.

The B. class however is more of the thinking player's melee, the options and the use of them rolled into a class you created, deliver and manage by means are far more in your control. Well, outside the B. who takes five to seven toughness feats. Playing a B. with diverse feating is typically more calculating, button pushing and resouce management on the player's part...The skill and thought it takes to play a good B class is typically a head turner as compared to playing a good A class in comparison...

[azmodeus1]

well i got near the bottom of page 5 before i have to post my thoughts,

i've been playing ddo for about a year and a half, and my main is a barb, inspired directly from shades posts and his barbarian guide. my main is now a legend build with barb pl, pal pl, and currently an 18/2 barb/ftr.

the damage is great, hp is well over 900, he does all that was promised and more from reading the forums and shades barb guide and i am very pleased with the character.

the 2nd life paladin was terrible to endure even compared to my first life barb, and i had hardly capped before i tr'd back into barbarian. another char i made was the ugly stick rog/mnk/ftr split, which while adding some versatility and evasion, umd etc. seemed to pale in comparison to the raw power of the barbarian. the one thing i did like about the rog build was the use of the atk speed boosts.

after getting some gear for him now, im considering tr'ing into a pure helf ftr burst dps style melee, using TWF instead of my barbs THF style. i was very interested reading this thread about how he'll hold up to the nice dmg output i see with my barb, and im encouraged from what i see. im just waiting to finish off a few crystals to craft dual litII kopeshes, and ill be on my way to see first hand the difference between barbs and fighters!

one thing i need to point out after lvling 3 lives and doing alot of endgame stuff, is that the cleave aoe dmg is not as good as it may seem, its very situational. playing with decent casters [my wife is necro focus wiz], she'd rather just wail and finger the mobs, than hage/displace me constantly.

i find that most things suseptible to insta kills is a mages/divines department, and melees focus on the leftovers, orange/red names, which usually involve gangbanging one target at a time, so if more are in range of the current mob i can cleave but running away to cleave 2 other mobs would be stupid. although in crono [devil trash] and VOD [red name orthons] and a few other places like scorps in claw [they have pretty high fort saves], etc... ill be spamming my cleaves non stop though it does slow down the attack rate some, the numbers are very impressive, and ill see in a few weeks exactly how it compares to a burst dps twf kensai's dmg output.

[CSFurious]

i agree with many in this thread that so long as a fighter does not run out of haste boosts that damage difference is minimal

however, in U11, damage boosts are getting a major upgrade which will make barbs do more dps as long as they have that boost available

if a fighter uses haste boost to get str boost one less damage boost to use

barbs will be raged for str & can use damage boosts to do higher percentage of damage in the future update

[Malky]

however, in U11, damage boosts are getting a major upgrade which will make barbs do more dps as long as they have that boost available

Granted, however barb's dps is also a bit more tied to fortification than fighter dps... and in the same update we're probably going to see boss's fortification go up.

if a fighter uses haste boost to get str boost one less damage boost to use

Hmm i'm not sure of what you mean there, power surge uses an attack boost 'charge', and fighters don't have damage boosts unless they're human or half-uglies.

Pure human/half-ugly thf fighter w/ esos might become the best burst dpser around, albeit with less boosts than a horc so it's probably going to run out of them sooner.

[Viisari]

You people do realize that a pure fighter is leading in Shade's dps challenge atm on the giant? With a rather significant margin too. So significant that all the past lives he has don't really account for it.

Both barbarians and fighters are heavy dps classes, but anyone who thinks barbs are more than a little bit ahead in pure damage is fooling himself. Fighters also get *much* more utility from their feats.

[eulogy098]

Assuming the same gear

A level 20 Barbarian will have more DR/- (7 to 9 generally), more hp (due to 12 per level over fighters 10 and due to rage bonus to CON and con enhancements), vastly superior AOE dps due to supreme cleave and higher glancing blow damage, higher strength and thus better odds at staying on his feet when tripped, more options when it comes to weapon use (due to not being limited by kensai over specialization).

Fighters supply very good dps, and arguably a little bit higher then a barbarian while Haste Boosted, however haste boost has limited charges and it can not be fully maintained due to a 20 second duration and 30 second cooldown. Also the gap here will be closing further next patch as the Barbarian Damage boost (that all barbs have maxed anyhow) is being significantly buffed. At the end of the day, the barbarian really does contribute more over-all dps.

A fighters benefits are feats. lots of feats. these feats can be used to get some nifty clickies such as Improved Trip and more easily fitting Stunning Blow or multiple Past-Life feats into a build. A fighter that builds taking nothing but toughness as his normal feats and kensai or twf feats as his bonus will just end up a underpowered mini-barb with still less hp, dr and dps. dont do this. Use those fighter feats for utility. Fighter benefit is utility.