Real differences between Barb and Fighter

[Sakeima]

So, from a simplified perspective what's the real melee difference between a barb and a fighter with a rage pot? Does it really just boil down to AC vs DR?

[jcTharin]

almost no one cares about AC at end game. I have never played a fighter to high levels but from what i can gather fighter has great burst DPS with haste boost, lots of hp and oodles of delicious bonus feats. Barbs have even more hp, faster moment with the static bonus and sprint boost, the ability to use any melee weapon they want just fine (almost no specialization) and better long term DPS with super long rages and endless frenzys. As long as they have healing support a barbarian is pretty much the energizer bunny from hell. key words "healing support".

I would appreciate someone with a fighter saying something for the fighters advantages.

[Sakeima]

So really, there's not a lot of difference when it comes to DPS? It seems to me, seeing how as everybody agrees and says that end game AC is useless compared with hot swapping outfits, that the only difference is the duration of the rage and the distribution of a few stat points.

Just looking for somebody with a bit more experience to comment on the subject.

[efreet5]

Well-geared, they're pretty much the same. Smack bad guys, drink a SF pot, and continue... Barbs will crit higher and can get more maintainable STR, but when mobs are dying really fast, even in epics, it's of little or no consequence.

[Shade]

Due to supreme cleave improvements, barbarians (THF) have MASSIVELY higher aoe dps then a fighter could ever hope for. Supreme cleave is that good, as well as there generally superior glancing blow damage.

Single target, for the first few minutes yea there pretty much even. Once the haste boosts expire? Barb > Fighter even for single target.

Fighters strengths are in there many bonus feats, so they can fit lots of nice stuff barbs otherwise cant easily like:
Improved trip
Hamstring (if you have a rogue splash)
Various pastlives (Barb can afford at most 1)
As well as a few other minor benefits:
More synergy with TWF if thats your plan.. (Haste boost IV + twf khopesh outdps THF single taget at least until ESoS comes into play, and slightly beats twf barbs comparable combo (frenzy+dmg boost)
Full DPS with no self damage can make healing a bit easier.. But honestly these days any decent healer can more then handle barbs minor self dmg, so thats something that really only coutns much in solo cases or groups without dedicated healers. And keep in mind barbs self dmg is purely an at will ability - they still have good DPS just by raging which causes no damage.

So if your crazy and plan on an ultimate completionist build, or like to run without healers (or SF pots..) Fighters pretty good.

If your not so nuts, and not too worried about the bonus feats, barbs the way to go.

[dingal]

While haste boosts are active and power surge fighters and barbs are pretty much even. Once haste boosts expire barbs take the lead by a very wide margin.

That said, after running a fighter now (and a supremely well geared barb) I will say that it's extremely rare to run out of haste boosts (I already have 12 at level 16) between shrines even if I'm trying so that's pretty much a non issue.

The main fighter advantages is flexibility and not relying on rage (which renders you unable to UMD or use clickies).

The main barb advantage is higher sustained DPS for a longer amount of time, much much higher crits (often high enough to one shot most non-epic mobs if you have an ESOS and most importantly they are the absolute best class to use Silver Flame pots for healing due to the fact that they have such an extremely high strength and can continue to hit on a 2 with the -10 to str from the debuff.

[Kinerd]

So, from a simplified perspective what's the real melee difference between a barb and a fighter with a rage pot?

None.

To clarify one thing in your statement, though, the barbarian Rage ability is distinct from the Rage spell found in potions. (There are about 19 million other Rages too, but that's neither here nor there.)

From a slightly more complicated perspective, fighters are much better suited to twitching than barbarians, so if you like twitching you're best served going fighter. Also, fighters can have a respectable Reflex save without too much effort, which can be handy in the survivability department.

[grodon9999]

What Dingal and Shade said. The fighter has more build versatility due to it's feats and splashing potential, a barb is a pure killing machine when properly geared up.

[Shade]

Also, fighters can have a respectable Reflex save without too much effort, which can be handy in the survivability department.

Thats rather wrong (well in the context that you infering that Barbarians cant have a respectable save).

Barbarians get far superior saves in all categories if you have any idea how to play.

Why?
Rage - Huge boost to willsave and fort save

Improved Uncanny dodge - MASSIVE (+6) bonus to reflex saves.

Sure there limited and require some skill and awareness of when to use it, but it's 6 uses at 30 seconds each (and cooldown = duration, so theres no gaps inbetween).. So if your at all aware of what enemies might be lobbing reflex save spells at you, you can indeed maintain thru 100% of encounters in the very longest of quest, I sure do.

And if you otherwise cant handle keeping short boost active, well you wouldn't be a very good fighter anyways, as the class very heavily relies on smart use of haste boost to do well. So you should be playing a barb - as for a barb, all you need to do is remember to rage to perform competantly, and that can last upwards of 4 minutes.

Then don't forget trapsense. +6 to reflex on traps (or fort/will if its a special magic trap) .. Which can be added on top of improved uncanny dodge. Which pretty much means barbarians can survive some deadly elite/epic traps while fighters just plain and simply cant, theres just no way for them to make up a 12 point gap - those 12 points are required to have anywhere near enough to make the saves on some of the more deadly traps.

Other somewhat unknown fact about IUD: Has a passive benefit too: Makes you immune to sneak attacks from rogue enemies, ALL rogue enemies. I didn't even realise this tell I did my fighter life and noticed I was taking all kinds of bonus damage from them I had otherwise never seen in a long time.

Barbarians are plain tougher in all categories. Saves certainly included.

[Mister_Peace]

Other somewhat unknown fact about IUD: Has a passive benefit too: Makes you immune to sneak attacks from rogue enemies, ALL rogue enemies.

and here I thought the passive benefit from IUD was to avoid pregnancy

[gyerv59]

What i'm gathering here is the OP is a new player, so while there was some good feedback in this thread, i dont know how much of it the OP is going to get.

Both are excellent first toons, there not that difficult to build, can get buy with average gear(till you build yourself alittle plat) are pretty easy soloable at lower levels.

As some people said the main difference is versatility/burst dps(damage) vs killing machine/long term dps.

My advise would be to roll up either, or search the forums, there are some excellent guides to fighters, and barbs.

more important than build(at early levels) is learning the game, just remember con is not a dump stat.

[Khanyth]

The biggest difference?

As I've written before:

If you do not go barb (pure barb, btw) your biceps will not be frequently mistaken for overlarge slabs of ham.

Forget stats, gear, epics, buffs, DR breakers, GS items, Epic gear, TOD sets and all of that. Forget spreadsheets, videos, numbers, twitching, attack speeds, crits and anything like that. Forget it all.

Having your biceps be recognized for the overlarge slabs of ham, is the single most important thing to have, as you play and level up in DDO. Anyone who tells you otherwise is lying to you and trying to deceive you.

It cannot be overstated and overemphasized just how important this is beginning, middle, and end game.

It cannot.

Overlarge slabs of ham.... ftw and profit!!!!

[Rogann]

Barbs swing slow where fighters swing fast

[Ngha]

AC pointless at endgame.

DR unless its really high, also pointless.

A raging pure Barbarian vastly outpreforms a pure fighter. rage pots/spells don't even come close to the HP and DPS of a full raging barb with similar buffs. Fighter Haste only lasts 20 seconds, so unless you're specing for maxed amount of action boosts and haste boost. Barbarian dominates.

Conan is king.

[Rogann]

AC pointless at endgame.

DR unless its really high, also pointless.

A raging pure Barbarian vastly outpreforms a pure fighter. rage pots/spells don't even come close to the HP and DPS of a full raging barb with similar buffs. Fighter Haste only lasts 20 seconds, so unless you're specing for maxed amount of action boosts and haste boost. Barbarian dominates.

Conan is king.

Actually no, a twf fighter will beat a barb hands down

[sigtrent]

Aside: AC is not pointless (outside of epics), its just more a go big or go home kind of thing. I see it used to good effect every time I play DDO.

That aside...

Fighter: You have lots of options for defense and offense and different combat styles, tactics etc... more freedom in build styles. It is also more fault tolerant build wise. Fighters multi class well.

Barbarian: A more focused character that really only has a couple truly great build directions but is super reliable at smashing bad guys and surviving while doing it. Barbarians multi class poorly (for the most part).

Barbarians are more one trick ponies but that doesn't mean boring or mindless. Its just as challenging/easy to play either, its just a different kind of mentality.

[dingal]

Actually no, a twf fighter will beat a barb hands down

By a teeny weeny little margin and then haste boosts are gone and the fighter goes to hide in a corner.

I've got both, TWF Fighter and pure barb (was 18/2 ftr ) and the barb is more reliable.

[Therigar]

Biggest reason to play fighter is for the +1 to attacks & +1 to tactics DCs that comes with the automatic past life feat. It stacks 3 times.

Monk gives +1 damage and that also stacks 3 times.

Then you play a barbarian.

[Forzah]

Thats rather wrong (well in the context that you infering that Barbarians cant have a respectable save).

Barbarians get far superior saves in all categories if you have any idea how to play.

Why?
Rage - Huge boost to willsave and fort save

Improved Uncanny dodge - MASSIVE (+6) bonus to reflex saves.

Sure there limited and require some skill and awareness of when to use it, but it's 6 uses at 30 seconds each (and cooldown = duration, so theres no gaps inbetween).. So if your at all aware of what enemies might be lobbing reflex save spells at you, you can indeed maintain thru 100% of encounters in the very longest of quest, I sure do.

And if you otherwise cant handle keeping short boost active, well you wouldn't be a very good fighter anyways, as the class very heavily relies on smart use of haste boost to do well. So you should be playing a barb - as for a barb, all you need to do is remember to rage to perform competantly, and that can last upwards of 4 minutes.

Then don't forget trapsense. +6 to reflex on traps (or fort/will if its a special magic trap) .. Which can be added on top of improved uncanny dodge. Which pretty much means barbarians can survive some deadly elite/epic traps while fighters just plain and simply cant, theres just no way for them to make up a 12 point gap - those 12 points are required to have anywhere near enough to make the saves on some of the more deadly traps.

Barbarians are plain tougher in all categories. Saves certainly included.

You are right here. I splashed my barb into rogue and he has really reliable saves. It works very well in stuff like epic chains of flame (or any epic quest with traps, for that matter). With buffs and uncanny dodge the reflex save vs traps is in the 50's.

[Khanyth]

Actually no, a twf fighter will beat a barb hands down

Actually no. The fight will be close until the fighter runs out of haste boosts. Once those are gone, the barb will only need their thw for swatting the flies away from the rotting corpse of the fighter. Or a shield. Or a halfling. Or a halfling shield.

Barbarians are more one trick ponies but that doesn't mean boring or mindless. Its just as challenging/easy to play either, its just a different kind of mentality.

Agreed... and +1 for you

Then you play a barbarian.

And a plus 1 for you.

Conan is king.

And a plus 1 for you too