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  1. #41
    Community Member fartlord's Avatar
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    "So there I was,Standing by the tree....

    Waiting for you......

    But you never showed up.........

    and I was arrested.......





    Man you sure have changed.....



    quote:Random guy yelling from a cell in san quentin.

  2. #42
    Community Member Zaviticus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by fartlord View Post
    "So there I was,Standing by the tree....

    Waiting for you......

    But you never showed up.........

    and I was arrested.......





    Man you sure have changed.....



    quote:Random guy yelling from a cell in san quentin.




    Zaviticus | Trawn | Minithra | Drislara | Gwinyth | Overdrive | Buttermylk | Karrisa | Thundyrcat

  3. #43
    Community Member fartlord's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Zaviticus View Post
    lol nice.

  4. #44
    Community Member Oakianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emili View Post
    And to all of you thinking one person takes blame for a part 4 failure like that? Whatever it be - I may remind you it such is a team effort. The team called it wrong, yes Cary jumped in early but a dead Mts bares little meaning in role after that point... there were eleven other peoapl there I assume? Besides that if Harry was half-dead and people were left why would people bail?
    One person? Probably not. Three people? Definitely more questionable. That's a pretty decent chunk of the party. When you factor in the chaos of realizing that a quarter of the party has just died and people going in half-cocked themselves, it's definitely enough to put a fair bit of blame on that quarter of the party.

    Unless I'm completely misreading the situation, of course. But yeah.

  5. #45
    Community Member Mts's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakianus View Post
    One person? Probably not. Three people? Definitely more questionable. That's a pretty decent chunk of the party. When you factor in the chaos of realizing that a quarter of the party has just died and people going in half-cocked themselves, it's definitely enough to put a fair bit of blame on that quarter of the party.

    Unless I'm completely misreading the situation, of course. But yeah.
    I should note that the three of us that went in, were still alive at the point where we were calling it and were beating the **** out of Harry. (read, we had his aggro minus the occasional random swap)

    A few folks came in and died, and the other healer refused to come on through alongside half of the party which also recalled. It was an easily avoidable wipe had they just gone on through and started beating on harry.
    TR'd: Mty | Mtp | Mts | Mtc | Mtn | Mtz
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  6. #46
    Community Member Oakianus's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Mts View Post
    I should note that the three of us that went in, were still alive at the point where we were calling it and were beating the **** out of Harry. (read, we had his aggro minus the occasional random swap)

    A few folks came in and died, and the other healer refused to come on through alongside half of the party which also recalled. It was an easily avoidable wipe had they just gone on through and started beating on harry.
    It's pretty understandable that the party would be a bit upset to find out that all of the 'devil advance party' or whatever has been done and people are already killing Harry while we're still sitting around buffing. I mean, I wouldn't allow it to completely waste the time I'd already spent on a shroud, but I'd definitely be snippy and I can understand why folks would want to just throw in the towel and not bother.

    If you have the star, sure. If you're openly communicating the whole time, mayyyybe. If you're just the second coming of Leroy Jenkins, don't be surprised when no one's impressed with the fact that you decided to be lone wolves in a partycentric raid. :P

  7. #47
    Hero LordPiglet's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladiun View Post
    incite or insight?

    If you are looking to incite we both know a better place, my slinky friend.

    As for insight, vets need to remember that there was a time when this stuff was hard for them too and realize that the leader may not have 400 shrouds in their pocket. That Axer package and swim to refill is a confidence booster for that leader because it's a script they understand and they do not yet have the experience to improvise. Making things difficult for them is not helping them to grow as a leader. Rather than zerg their shroud and wipe it; invite them to your Shroud and show/teach them there is a better faster way. However, besides that they have the star so stand their be buffed and zip it or run your own.
    I might have swam to refill once on my fvs. I realized it was a ton faster to just shrine after part 2, buff everyone and then go shrine. The fact that I need one divine favor, divine might and some of the masses help alot. Even with a bad group Harry is sub 1 round with me using divine punishment, meleeing and tossing quickened mass heals.

  8. #48
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakianus View Post
    It's pretty understandable that the party would be a bit upset to find out that all of the 'devil advance party' or whatever has been done and people are already killing Harry while we're still sitting around buffing. I mean, I wouldn't allow it to completely waste the time I'd already spent on a shroud, but I'd definitely be snippy and I can understand why folks would want to just throw in the towel and not bother.

    If you have the star, sure. If you're openly communicating the whole time, mayyyybe. If you're just the second coming of Leroy Jenkins, don't be surprised when no one's impressed with the fact that you decided to be lone wolves in a partycentric raid. :P
    hahah, yep, a **** move was pulled, but if everyone had just been as impatient as Leeeroy, everything would ahve been ok. Fail.

  9. #49
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    That pause at the end of part 3 before part 4 makes me as impatient as anything... it's the slowest part of a pug shroud and I wait there just wanting to GO!!!! I would totally be guilty of following Mts in! I *hate* the wait there. Like Em I shrine end of part 2 not 3 (and I do at 4 also) and can see no reason why fom and fire can't be given out at the water chests even before the last fountain is done so we can rush into the next bit. Loot 'n scoot!

    Mithran, the sense of entitlement or just a lack of courtesy you describe in your OP are you ascribing it to a generational thing or a F2P DDO influx thing? Or a now-we-have-ship-buffs-there-is-always-going-to-be-a-wait thing..? To me this is a very similar comment being made as the ship buffs thread.

  10. #50
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    Quote Originally Posted by MeliCat View Post
    That pause at the end of part 3 before part 4 makes me as impatient as anything... it's the slowest part of a pug shroud and I wait there just wanting to GO!!!! I would totally be guilty of following Mts in! I *hate* the wait there. Like Em I shrine end of part 2 not 3 (and I do at 4 also) and can see no reason why fom and fire can't be given out at the water chests even before the last fountain is done so we can rush into the next bit. Loot 'n scoot!
    Same here, as soon as someone hits that altar i go thru the portal, been yelled at a few times, but couldn't care less.
    Necalli (spellsinger), Boofy (warchanter), Bowlcrusher (retired enchanter), Krunchface (barb), Tlilectic (Arti) - ITS HUGE SON (R.I.P.) - Cannith Server,

  11. #51
    Community Member NXPlasmid's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by mournbladereigns View Post
    hahah, yep, a **** move was pulled, but if everyone had just been as impatient as Leeeroy, everything would ahve been ok. Fail.
    You aren't gettin it.

  12. #52
    Community Member Mithran's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Sweyn View Post
    What do you plan on accomplishing from this post? You really think this is going to change anything? lol...
    It made me feel better. To be fair, nicotine withdrawal can make me less patient than usual but to have the Jamsticks member tell everyone else in the group that I was behaving like a twelve-year-old (as I Recalled) was irritating.
    The victorious strategist only seeks battle after the victory has been won, whereas he who is destined to defeat first fights and afterwards looks for victory. - Sun Tzu

  13. #53
    Community Member Maugrim101's Avatar
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    I seem to recall many of the same people here who are complaining about slowness offering the advice of "Make your own group" to people who complained about Zergers or people who wanted to move at a faster pace.

    I like fast moving groups myslef, but when I click on an LFM, I move at the pace dictated by the person running it.

    Sometimes it's a little faster than I'm used to and I do my best to keep up, other tmes it seems very slow, but if it's clear (3 repulls in part 2 shroud being a good indicator) that the group can't handle a speedy Gonzalez production, I just go with it simply because I don't want the responsibility of being the leader and dealing with people who want to do their own thing.
    Calvet ~ Ghalnem ~ Noobforged ~ Sorgant ~ Gimpsong

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  14. #54
    Community Member Eladiun's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Oakianus View Post
    It's pretty understandable that the party would be a bit upset to find out that all of the 'devil advance party' or whatever has been done and people are already killing Harry while we're still sitting around buffing. I mean, I wouldn't allow it to completely waste the time I'd already spent on a shroud, but I'd definitely be snippy and I can understand why folks would want to just throw in the towel and not bother.

    If you have the star, sure. If you're openly communicating the whole time, mayyyybe. If you're just the second coming of Leroy Jenkins, don't be surprised when no one's impressed with the fact that you decided to be lone wolves in a partycentric raid. :P
    I'm the opposite. I'd break and reform on principle. I've been in a group where we broke on Part 3 because someone called a pet after explicitly being told not to in Part 1. I would rather run 3 parts over than complete with someone who isn't listening. Call that what you will. It's how I was taught. When I was a noob way back in August of 06 or further back in EQ or AO, I learned you listen to the party leader. I don't know how some self proclaimed vets seem to forget this.
    “If at first you don't succeed, keep on sucking till you do succeed.”

  15. #55
    Community Member Emili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Eladiun View Post
    I'm the opposite. I'd break and reform on principle. I've been in a group where we broke on Part 3 because someone called a pet after explicitly being told not to in Part 1. I would rather run 3 parts over than complete with someone who isn't listening. Call that what you will. It's how I was taught. When I was a noob way back in August of 06 or further back in EQ or AO, I learned you listen to the party leader. I don't know how some self proclaimed vets seem to forget this.
    Which is and is fair and reasonable.

    The issue was however, either leading by a script or callin' off the top of their head - seems to me there was no star. Noone made any decision for the group, even though Cary bloody jumped in gun-ho and a few people after him my impression noone opted to grab the group pull 'em together and move on, instead they all took whatever action each party member wished to take.

    Quote Originally Posted by Oakianus View Post
    One person? Probably not. Three people? Definitely more questionable. That's a pretty decent chunk of the party. When you factor in the chaos of realizing that a quarter of the party has just died and people going in half-cocked themselves, it's definitely enough to put a fair bit of blame on that quarter of the party.

    Unless I'm completely misreading the situation, of course. But yeah.
    The people Mts normally runs with treat shroud norm like any ww or reavers anyway. Most so gear heavy they typically they run into part four and Harrys dead within half a kensie surge - blades barely an quarter or eight the way in sometimes they barely even started to circle. His zurging here though seems to me he forgot 'bout his company.


    Last edited by Emili; 06-22-2011 at 12:54 PM.
    A Baker's dozen in the Prophets of the New Republic and Fallen Heroes.
    Abaigeal(TrBd25), Ailiae(TrDrd2), Ambyre(Rgr25), Amilia(Pl20), Einin(TrRgr25), Emili(TrFgt25), Heathier(TrClc22), Kynah(TrMnk25), Meallach(Brb25), Misbehaven(TrArt22), Myara(Rog22), Rosewood(TrBd25) and Sgail(TrWiz20) little somethings with flavour 'n favour

  16. #56
    Community Member Maugrim101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emili View Post


    Which is and is fair and reasonable.

    The issue was however, either leading by a script or callin' off the top of their head - seems to me there was no star. Noone made any decision for the group, even though Cary bloody jumped in gun-ho and a few people after him my impression noone opted to grab the group pull 'em together and move on, instead they all took whatever action each party member wished to take.



    The people Mts normally runs with treat shroud norm like any ww or reavers anyway. Typically they run into part four and Harrys dead within half a kensie surge - blades barely even quater the way in. His zurging here though seems to me he forgot 'bout his company.



    If someone ruins a quest for the other 5 (Or 11), it doesn't matter how Ubarz they are. Even if someone can solo Harry naked with a club of the silver flame it doesn't really alter the whole "Respect the star" thing either. In all fairness to Mts, he said he was in error and I imagine if in the same scenario again with a group that ins't up to his usual standards, he might pause before rushing in on his own. Not sure why you're trying to promote this kind of play really when in the majority of cases, Leeroying isn't going to be cheered on by the rest of the group.
    Calvet ~ Ghalnem ~ Noobforged ~ Sorgant ~ Gimpsong

    All on Khyber.

  17. #57
    Community Member Emili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maugrim101 View Post
    If someone ruins a quest for the other 5 (Or 11), it doesn't matter how Ubarz they are. Even if someone can solo Harry naked with a club of the silver flame it doesn't really alter the whole "Respect the star" thing either. In all fairness to Mts, he said he was in error and I imagine if in the same scenario again with a group that ins't up to his usual standards, he might pause before rushing in on his own. Not sure why you're trying to promote this kind of play really when in the majority of cases, Leeroying isn't going to be cheered on by the rest of the group.
    I did nothing to promote his play, I said he he apprently forgot where who he was with... still one person jumping into PART four is not a wipe nor near a wipe. My point is there was NO Star... if there was a "Star" people would not have taken the actions they did after Mts jumped on in. Yes Mts jumped in and the dominoes tumbled ... but Mts being in part four alone is little bearing on the raid or the results in part four. Sure Harry is down ... hop in together and remove him was the next task at hand. Mts in a penalty box does not matter ...

    Last edited by Emili; 06-22-2011 at 01:06 PM.
    A Baker's dozen in the Prophets of the New Republic and Fallen Heroes.
    Abaigeal(TrBd25), Ailiae(TrDrd2), Ambyre(Rgr25), Amilia(Pl20), Einin(TrRgr25), Emili(TrFgt25), Heathier(TrClc22), Kynah(TrMnk25), Meallach(Brb25), Misbehaven(TrArt22), Myara(Rog22), Rosewood(TrBd25) and Sgail(TrWiz20) little somethings with flavour 'n favour

  18. #58
    Community Member Maugrim101's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Emili View Post


    My point is there was NO Star... if there was a "Star" people would not have taken the actions they did after Mts jumped on in.

    Just so I understand this correctly. You think that in a group where there is no clear leadership and that has a lot of trouble in part 2, the shizzle for a smooth completion is for someone to jump into part 4 on their own and aggro Harry while everyone else is still doing the slow dance from shrine to portal in part 3.

    I'm fairly certain if you tried that idea out in the guides section, it wouldn't receive a lot of positive feedback.
    Calvet ~ Ghalnem ~ Noobforged ~ Sorgant ~ Gimpsong

    All on Khyber.

  19. #59
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    I dont like it when people rush through the quest and cant stick together, especially when it causes exp loss or a fail, but when 11 people are in to start the shroud and one guy (with no shame/apologies) mentions over speaker that he came to meridia and saw he had a quest to hand in so he did that and sold first is a real **** off. Get with the program.

    The quest completion can wait, why should 11 other players have to wait for (already the last) one guy to do his business from another quest.

  20. #60
    Community Member Emili's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maugrim101 View Post
    Just so I understand this correctly. You think that in a group where there is no clear leadership and that has a lot of trouble in part 2, the shizzle for a smooth completion is for someone to jump into part 4 on their own and aggro Harry while everyone else is still doing the slow dance from shrine to portal in part 3.

    I'm fairly certain if you tried that idea out in the guides section, it wouldn't receive a lot of positive feedback.
    I'm saying they that failed because noone bothered to make a team out of them at any point. Mts hopping in early was silly and ignorant on his part but all twelve there caused fail.

    Last edited by Emili; 06-22-2011 at 01:17 PM.
    A Baker's dozen in the Prophets of the New Republic and Fallen Heroes.
    Abaigeal(TrBd25), Ailiae(TrDrd2), Ambyre(Rgr25), Amilia(Pl20), Einin(TrRgr25), Emili(TrFgt25), Heathier(TrClc22), Kynah(TrMnk25), Meallach(Brb25), Misbehaven(TrArt22), Myara(Rog22), Rosewood(TrBd25) and Sgail(TrWiz20) little somethings with flavour 'n favour

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