Advice to melees in Shroud and other mass healing situations

[somenewnoob]

Oh I know the feeling of being that melee......hp's dwindling.......imminent death........wondering when the mass heal will come.........good times!!!

My usual reaction is to chug a couple csw's if it gets too close to call......but running out of the huddled group is definitely bad!

Still I can understand the reaction to get out of there.

[Iaga]

Theres actually potential for MORE damage to be taken by the individual, and MORE chance of wipe with people who get skittish and move around.

That's why you hot key your grease clicky right beside the mass cures. Silly melee steps out, BAM! Drop em on their butt so they don't outrun the heals!!!

[Illiain]

That's why you hot key your grease clicky right beside the mass cures. Silly melee steps out, BAM! Drop em on their butt so they don't outrun the heals!!!

+1 for raid hijinx + healing efficiency

[mournbladereigns]

That's why you hot key your grease clicky right beside the mass cures. Silly melee steps out, BAM! Drop em on their butt so they don't outrun the heals!!!

Puts that down in his Cleric Notes. yelling 'Spartans NEVER RETREAT" while doing so for extra win.

[Elegorne]

That's why you hot key your grease clicky right beside the mass cures. Silly melee steps out, BAM! Drop em on their butt so they don't outrun the heals!!!

Don't forget the extra fun when Harry's DBF lights said grease up

[Jonny_D]

Never focus on anyone other than a barbarian, fighter or paladin - you know they will have a lot of HP and are going to be in melee. Ideally, you have to take the time to figure out about how many HP the melees have using cure moderates during parts 1 - 3. Then, and this is important, LET YOUR ANCHOR KNOW YOU'RE ANCHORING

This

Also any healer worth his/her salt can change Targets before anyone dies. Rogues and some Rangers/monks don't have the HP to take 2 failed meteor swarms in the face aswell as the blades. In that case they are used to tactically playing their character and surviving. It's counter intuitive to 6 man quest strategies commonly used. Never target a lesser base hit point class without letting them know.

[transtemporal]

Curious, how many HP do you think is enough to do that?

Without evasion at least 400, 450 is better, 500 you're golden.

Here goes one tip if you're going to stand with the melees and use aura/bursts though: for harry, shadowmaster, horoth and sulu, you can block with a shield and you'll be fine. For the Reaver, DQ and Velah, do NOT block with a shield. Any mob that trips/overruns seems to get a vastly increased chance to knock you over when you have a shield equipped. It doesn't hurt to equip a balance item too in case you do get knocked over (I use hobnail boots).

[justagame]

When you are getting your ass handed to you, the first instinct is to back away from whatever is doing it, stop taking damage, and give yourself/the healer a chance to get ahead of the damage. This is, unfortunately, something that is actually LEARNED in game at low lvls and also in other MMOs. At low lvls, the healer doesnt have mass healing abilities (other than a cleric with radiant servant bursts -- and its not much). If you want to live through something, you have to back out of it and let the healer catch up -- assuming you arent the actual tank. This is also common in other MMOs -- its all too common for healers to gripe at Player X to get out of the boss's AOE so they dont have to sink all their mana into keeping you alive.

This is something that has to be unlearned mid-game when healers' mass-cures are effective enough to be used in this manner.

I was thinking about this exact same point. I often think that many many players lack good awareness of mass cures, that's the only explanation for what I see in game. People in need of healing totally ignoring auras, pleas to group for a quick heal, etc. Players group all the time for haste, but simply don't seem to get the enormous value of grouping, or staying grouped, for mass cures. But by level 10 at the latest (even earlier in the case of a well-specced RS), mass cures start becoming very handy. I think it's a combination of:

a) people are doing more and more solo-ing, or solo-with-a-cleric-hireling. The concept of a mass cure is foreign to someone who only plays this way.

b) at mid levels, many new clerics themselves haven't utilized mass cures to their fullest. An empower-healed MCLW with an ardor item is very efficient healing, but if clerics you group with aren't taking advantage, you may never see that benefit

c) while there are plenty of clerics out there, there aren't many PLAYERS playing them (a minority of players with lots of divines, and many more players who have no concept of what they can do). I have no data to back this up, just the countless times I've watched or listened to someone in a quest and thought to myself "this person has NEVER played a divine before."

d) people just don't pay attention. Some players are ignorant of what's happening to other toons, and lack simple situational awareness such as who else is taking damage, how it's being healed, how much mana the healers have left, etc. It takes remarkably little attention to know this, but it's clear in many cases that some people just aren't doing it.

Irrespective of the reason, when the healer makes it clear at the start "I'm centering heals on <name> -- stay grouped on <name> if you want to stay alive", and people STILL jump out...

[DMCain]

Back in a previous life when I was an old and decrepit FvS, I just targeted the boss. That way all the melees would get the Mass Heals. And it's a LOT easier to press tab to reacquire the heal target after tossing a cure at a stray that needs it than it is to bang on the 'F' keys hoping you tag the right one.

Also, I would pile in with or near the melees with just shy of 400 HP. And only once in all my shroud runs did i die, and that was from a stupid mistake. Forgot to Fire resist/protect myself and got nailed with a stupid comet. :/

[sirgog]

God, I had scenario two happen to me once, was healing a pally, even said so in group chat, thinking a pally wouldn't run away. Well, he did...

Now I have more than enough HP to stand in the middle and just mass cure myself. If you run out of the circle, you most probably will die.

/this.

[varusso]

Irrespective of the reason, when the healer makes it clear at the start "I'm centering heals on <name> -- stay grouped on <name> if you want to stay alive", and people STILL jump out...

Then they deserve the ignominious death they are about to suffer. You either trust your healer or you dont. If you dont, then one of you doesnt belong in the party.

[Jiirix]

1. If we're lucky, YOU lose out on the mass cure/mass heal, and you die
2. If we're not lucky, and you were the mass cure target, then EVERYONE ELSE misses the cure, and we risk wiping.

And that's why I stand right behind Harry in Shroud Pugs with mass heals and bursts centered on myself. You have to be verry squishy to die with that amount of healing.

[NexEverto]

Sorry man, but we've got some squishy barbs running around Sarlona lately. Even some sub 400 hp 18+ fighters. People who can't survive the cool down on a quicken mass heal. That's all I throw in 4&5 is quickened mass heal, because I'm swinging and using divine punishment.

I'm the same on my FvS, all I'll do is DPS, Mass Heal and Divine Punishment. Cures shouldn't be needed in Shroud or most other raids (Most, I'm not saying all. Part 2 ToD with a dead Kiter and Shadows closing in on you as you try to squeeze the most DPS out you can in the last few seconds of either your or the Shadowmaster's life is obviously a different story.), and if they are, its likely because someone doesn't have enough HP to last 3 - 4 seconds, or because a person, or people, are lagging and the heals are delayed trying to confirm on that person/people. Most wipes I've found are because of the one or two lagging people, and because of that, I'll simply let them die to make sure I can keep the rest of the group going strong. Although I know that's a horrible thing to do.

I'm probably slightly off topic to the OP, however just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

[Elaril]

I suppose no one carries a shield to block with when getting low on hp and taking loads of damage anymore. Turtle up until your comfortable with your hps, then go to town.

[justagame]

I agree with those who say to simply stay in the group and center heals on yourself -- I prefer to do it that way on shroud runs with people I know. I can also contribute meaningful dps that way. However, sometimes I'd rather just not take the grief from the not-so-occasional pugger who freaks out at that prospect. I've had folks insist "we will wipe, I know that for a fact." (actual quote)

So, knowing I will be blamed for ANYTHING going wrong at that point if I am in the melee group, and not wanting to fighting it out -- I just need a completion, I have no need to prove a point to anyone -- I stay out.

[justagame]

I'm the same on my FvS, all I'll do is DPS, Mass Heal and Divine Punishment. Cures shouldn't be needed in Shroud or most other raids (Most, I'm not saying all. Part 2 ToD with a dead Kiter and Shadows closing in on you as you try to squeeze the most DPS out you can in the last few seconds of either your or the Shadowmaster's life is obviously a different story.), and if they are, its likely because someone doesn't have enough HP to last 3 - 4 seconds, or because a person, or people, are lagging and the heals are delayed trying to confirm on that person/people. Most wipes I've found are because of the one or two lagging people, and because of that, I'll simply let them die to make sure I can keep the rest of the group going strong. Although I know that's a horrible thing to do.

I'm probably slightly off topic to the OP, however just thought I'd add my 2 cents.

Not OT at all. Whether in the group or not, I think any divine should be hitting Harry with DP in between heals. By the way, I'm using the term mass cure in the generic sense. Whether I use mass cure ____ or mass heal depends on the party makeup, lag conditions, etc. But I'd never rely solely on mass heal, as every once in a while, you may need a quickie during that cooldown to be safe.

[morticianjohn]

Too true and not just Sarlona, I was in a Shroud the other day, where 3 Barbs and a Fighter all died in part 4 and my Rogue was still at 1/2 health.

I tried not to gloat too much.

I failed.

The other day after a lag spike only the evasion toons were left standing. 2 rogues, and a monk. At least 4 lvl 20 fighters/barbs died. Granted 2 of them were WF and due to the lag I was spamming mass cures rather than mass heal. I should have thrown a mass heal every third cast to top them off because the cures weren't doing anything for them.

[transtemporal]

b) at mid levels, many new clerics themselves haven't utilized mass cures to their fullest. An empower-healed MCLW with an ardor item is very efficient healing, but if clerics you group with aren't taking advantage, you may never see that benefit

Wurd. I never really appreciated how useful mass cures could be until I started healing vod and shroud. Before that, I'd used mainly individual heals.

c) while there are plenty of clerics out there, there aren't many PLAYERS playing them (a minority of players with lots of divines, and many more players who have no concept of what they can do).

Yeah, and if you watch the LFM's, you'll notice it's always the same people on their healers too. I feel sorry for some players, as they seem to be the only healer in their guild.

Some players are ignorant of what's happening to other toons, and lack simple situational awareness such as who else is taking damage, how it's being healed, how much mana the healers have left, etc.

Agree, though there's a difference between players who haven't learned yet and are willing to learn, and players who should know better but are willfully stupid. Most melees who've played for a while at epic levels know to move in a group about a mass-heal-width apart, and not to doggedly chase down that single archer while the rest of the group moves on. And some never seem to learn that, lol.