What with more than 1 caster=100% chance on failed raid mentality?

[Vellrad]

In most high level pug raids I've noticed that people usually disable wizard/sorc icon from their LFMs when there is one magician. And in almost all others, I'm getting PM 'sorry, we already got 1 caster' and wiz/sorc icon dissapears from LFM.
Whats the reason for this?

[sirgog]

Remember back when Rangers first became the top anti-boss DPS machines in the game? (this was when the cap was 16, they certainly aren't now). They put out hte best damage and were the most survivable melees to boot.

For a while, noone would take them still.

PUG leaders just haven't learned that anything melees can do, arcanes do quite a bit better (except tank Horoth and one or two other bosses).

[samdsherman]

Remember back when Rangers first became the top anti-boss DPS machines in the game? (this was when the cap was 16, they certainly aren't now). They put out hte best damage and were the most survivable melees to boot.

For a while, noone would take them still.

PUG leaders just haven't learned that anything melees can do, arcanes do quite a bit better (except tank Horoth and one or two other bosses).

maybe not arcanes, but favored souls can certainly tank better than melees these days as well. and i'd bet arcanes can actually do it better than melees if they are built for it.

[phillymiket]

It's an old mentality that is dieing fast.

It used to be that the view was that arcanes could not put out the sustained DPS needed for a long raid boss fight so there was only one for, essentially, buffing the melee to take down the boss.

Times have changed, though, some group leaders don't realize it yet.

When I've run The Thirteenth Eclipse recently there is usually multiple casters. One run a week ago had only like four melee in it.

[sirgog]

When I've run The Thirteenth Eclipse recently there is usually multiple casters. One run a week ago had only like four melee in it.

I hate part 1 of the Shroud in caster-dominated groups. The one thing a melee excels at is hitting a brick wall over and over.

[Vellrad]

When I've run The Thirteenth Eclipse recently there is usually multiple casters. One run a week ago had only like four melee in it.

Well, I didn't though about shroud while making this thread- Shroud lfms were always take 11 first people who clicks LFM.

I was thinking about hound, vod, tod, evon6 etc.

[Jiirix]

If i am in an Pug raid early and the leader is excluding casters I try to explain that there is no need to do so anymore. Spread the word....

[Teech]

Was about to jump into the thread and make the requisite whine about 'casters can do everything better than melees', and 'where does all this leave melees nowadays' and 'balance issues, etc etc', but then I read this...

The one thing a melee excels at is hitting a brick wall over and over.

Guess I'm whipped...

[Rumbaar]

I hate part 1 of the Shroud in caster-dominated groups. The one thing a melee excels at is hitting a brick wall over and over.

I love all caster runs, Ice Storms and the Portals don't last seconds. Specially cold/force based builds.

[phillymiket]

Well, I didn't though about shroud while making this thread- Shroud lfms were always take 11 first people who clicks LFM.

I was thinking about hound, vod, tod, evon6 etc.

Really?

I find that people will wait for two healers and an arcane before they start and before the spell pass if there was more then two arcanes you would hear grumbles about "not enough DPS" when the third joined and if there was more then a token rogue or two someone would make a comment about the party looking "a bit squishy".

Maybe I hit the wrong LFMs.

You don't see Shrouds with classes blocked out in the LFMs?

I see them all the time.

[sweez]

On Khyber most PuGs still take 1-2 casters for raids, but yeah, Khyber is a bit... slow... with changes like that.

[Truga]

You don't see Shrouds with classes blocked out in the LFMs?

I see them all the time.

I don't see them, I have the "don't show parties I'm not eligible for" ticked.

Though, when doing shroud, I usually ask the cleric if he feels he can solo heal once we're nearly full and there's only one in the group. If he says he'd rather not I look for another. More divines for shroud is always awesome though, DP on harry owns.

[phillymiket]

Well, I didn't though about shroud while making this thread- Shroud lfms were always take 11 first people who clicks LFM.

I was thinking about hound, vod, tod, evon6 etc.

Just logged in and checked LFMs. (not to make a point here - was going to play)

One shroud up.



Maybe people should and can just take the first 11 but they often don't.

(at least rogue isn't blocked out ...also note EVON6 on bottom Old habits die hard I guess.)

[Kovalas]

There is a nasty rumour going around the servers that Arcanes dont want to waste a spell slot on Haste.

[Alektronic]

Question to the masses: do you all still think your standard PUG wizard can keep up in the dps race? I usually take no more than 1-2 wizards in the group, but dont' care if sorcs take up to every slot in the group and run sans melee. I'm not comparing class capabilities here with max gear blahblahblah. Just for your standard PUGger. Would you really trust a wizard to be specc'd and geared to take out the big guns when it comes to nuking?

[taurean430]

On Khyber most PuGs still take 1-2 casters for raids, but yeah, Khyber is a bit... slow... with changes like that.

Agreed. I still see a lot of lfm's excluding casters for higher level raids. To be fair however, I've also seen a fair amount of non group friendly newly capped arcanes. The slow speed of change can be attributed to many factors methinks...

[Jaid314]

big difference between "casters can be awesome DPS for a long enough time to matter" and "the caster in YOUR group IS awesome DPS for a long enough time to matter".

sure, i'll accept that a good caster will actually speed up the slaying of raid bosses. but i've ran with a lot of really bad casters lately too... ones that i wouldn't welcome to a korthos favor run, let alone end-game raids.

[Darkrok]

I find if you send a tell to a lot of those people they'll welcome you to the group.

[Kalari]

Even with our new dotting abilities its no gaurentee if you bring more then a wizard or two that the raid will go smoothly.

I remember before many changes how debuffing then nuking harry with force and ice was a good strategy but if I was one of two casters in a raid most of the time once the other caster threw up a fog they were standing around scratching their nethers acting like they did so much and waiting to finger the gnolls (yeah that sounds dirty dont it? ) I know they would look at my caster like she was nuts because I was actually casting on the bosses instead of standing around doing nothing and many of these types are still playing that way. Last pug shroud I did neither of the casters did any dotting of Harry they ran out of sp on trash and by the time Harry dropped they were running around I think one even had a crossbow that he was not really utilizing.

So until some casters get the amazing boosts we got with new spells and the like there will continue to be people who rather not risk a spot with someone who may help with dps.

[dingal]

In most high level pug raids I've noticed that people usually disable wizard/sorc icon from their LFMs when there is one magician. And in almost all others, I'm getting PM 'sorry, we already got 1 caster' and wiz/sorc icon dissapears from LFM.
Whats the reason for this?

People are dumb as rocks. OHNOES!!!! Can't do Epic Chrono with 5 casters! Either that or we can do it in 50% of the time.