What with more than 1 caster=100% chance on failed raid mentality?

[Vellrad]

In most high level pug raids I've noticed that people usually disable wizard/sorc icon from their LFMs when there is one magician. And in almost all others, I'm getting PM 'sorry, we already got 1 caster' and wiz/sorc icon dissapears from LFM.
Whats the reason for this?

[sirgog]

Remember back when Rangers first became the top anti-boss DPS machines in the game? (this was when the cap was 16, they certainly aren't now). They put out hte best damage and were the most survivable melees to boot.

For a while, noone would take them still.

PUG leaders just haven't learned that anything melees can do, arcanes do quite a bit better (except tank Horoth and one or two other bosses).

[samdsherman]

Remember back when Rangers first became the top anti-boss DPS machines in the game? (this was when the cap was 16, they certainly aren't now). They put out hte best damage and were the most survivable melees to boot.

For a while, noone would take them still.

PUG leaders just haven't learned that anything melees can do, arcanes do quite a bit better (except tank Horoth and one or two other bosses).

maybe not arcanes, but favored souls can certainly tank better than melees these days as well. and i'd bet arcanes can actually do it better than melees if they are built for it.

[Therigar]

(except tank Horoth and one or two other bosses).

I'm thinking that built right this isn't going to be true. I've seen a couple of builds that I think might manage now and I'm seeing a lot of ideas on builds meant specifically to accomplish this.

Since most of those quests are run on normal the key elements are evasion and enough HP to live thru to the heals. Getting an holding aggro is the easy part.

[protokon]

Remember back when Rangers first became the top anti-boss DPS machines in the game? (this was when the cap was 16, they certainly aren't now). They put out hte best damage and were the most survivable melees to boot.

For a while, noone would take them still.

PUG leaders just haven't learned that anything melees can do, arcanes do quite a bit better (except tank Horoth and one or two other bosses).

this.

There are still people out there stuck in mod 7 mentality (yes, mod not update) and insist you MUST have a warforged tank or you will fail! nevermind that we've had guild pots for over a year now and hp thresholds making it beyond easier to use a fleshy tank with some healing amp.

last time I did tod with my guild, we had a fleshy sorc tank suulo because he accidentally pulled aggro, and we decided to let him just keep it with his DOTs. the one cleric healing him wasn't even stressed to keep him up during the fight.

there are a lot of misconceptions out there that are the norm for pugging. unfortunately one line kind of sums up most pug leader's train of thought, whether there thought process is logical or not:

better safe than sorry.

[phillymiket]

It's an old mentality that is dieing fast.

It used to be that the view was that arcanes could not put out the sustained DPS needed for a long raid boss fight so there was only one for, essentially, buffing the melee to take down the boss.

Times have changed, though, some group leaders don't realize it yet.

When I've run The Thirteenth Eclipse recently there is usually multiple casters. One run a week ago had only like four melee in it.

[sirgog]

When I've run The Thirteenth Eclipse recently there is usually multiple casters. One run a week ago had only like four melee in it.

I hate part 1 of the Shroud in caster-dominated groups. The one thing a melee excels at is hitting a brick wall over and over.

[Teech]

Was about to jump into the thread and make the requisite whine about 'casters can do everything better than melees', and 'where does all this leave melees nowadays' and 'balance issues, etc etc', but then I read this...

The one thing a melee excels at is hitting a brick wall over and over.

Guess I'm whipped...

[Rumbaar]

I hate part 1 of the Shroud in caster-dominated groups. The one thing a melee excels at is hitting a brick wall over and over.

I love all caster runs, Ice Storms and the Portals don't last seconds. Specially cold/force based builds.

[Vellrad]

When I've run The Thirteenth Eclipse recently there is usually multiple casters. One run a week ago had only like four melee in it.

Well, I didn't though about shroud while making this thread- Shroud lfms were always take 11 first people who clicks LFM.

I was thinking about hound, vod, tod, evon6 etc.

[phillymiket]

Well, I didn't though about shroud while making this thread- Shroud lfms were always take 11 first people who clicks LFM.

I was thinking about hound, vod, tod, evon6 etc.

Really?

I find that people will wait for two healers and an arcane before they start and before the spell pass if there was more then two arcanes you would hear grumbles about "not enough DPS" when the third joined and if there was more then a token rogue or two someone would make a comment about the party looking "a bit squishy".

Maybe I hit the wrong LFMs.

You don't see Shrouds with classes blocked out in the LFMs?

I see them all the time.

[Truga]

You don't see Shrouds with classes blocked out in the LFMs?

I see them all the time.

I don't see them, I have the "don't show parties I'm not eligible for" ticked.

Though, when doing shroud, I usually ask the cleric if he feels he can solo heal once we're nearly full and there's only one in the group. If he says he'd rather not I look for another. More divines for shroud is always awesome though, DP on harry owns.

[phillymiket]

Well, I didn't though about shroud while making this thread- Shroud lfms were always take 11 first people who clicks LFM.

I was thinking about hound, vod, tod, evon6 etc.

Just logged in and checked LFMs. (not to make a point here - was going to play)

One shroud up.



Maybe people should and can just take the first 11 but they often don't.

(at least rogue isn't blocked out ...also note EVON6 on bottom Old habits die hard I guess.)

[killerzee25]

Just logged in and checked LFMs. (not to make a point here - was going to play)

One shroud up.



Maybe people should and can just take the first 11 but they often don't.

(at least rogue isn't blocked out ...also note EVON6 on bottom Old habits die hard I guess.)

To be honest id say that is one of the better lfm's i often see shrouds looking for dps with just a barbarian fighter and pally selected in the classes needed panel.

[stille_nacht]

When I've run The Thirteenth Eclipse recently there is usually multiple casters. One run a week ago had only like four melee in it.

anyone who wouldnt accept more than 1 caster even before sorcs got savant was what i like to term an "elitist noob".

3 casters was perfectly fine for the likes of normal shroud, perhaps even 4. simply put, its not a hard quest, compounded with the fact that non DR breaking, poorly built/geared melees do less damage then spamming casters.... it just doesnt really matter.

really for shroud, all you need for a 1rounder is 6 people doing actual good DPS, the rest are pile ons

[Jiirix]

If i am in an Pug raid early and the leader is excluding casters I try to explain that there is no need to do so anymore. Spread the word....

[sweez]

On Khyber most PuGs still take 1-2 casters for raids, but yeah, Khyber is a bit... slow... with changes like that.

[taurean430]

On Khyber most PuGs still take 1-2 casters for raids, but yeah, Khyber is a bit... slow... with changes like that.

Agreed. I still see a lot of lfm's excluding casters for higher level raids. To be fair however, I've also seen a fair amount of non group friendly newly capped arcanes. The slow speed of change can be attributed to many factors methinks...

[Kovalas]

There is a nasty rumour going around the servers that Arcanes dont want to waste a spell slot on Haste.

[Alektronic]

Question to the masses: do you all still think your standard PUG wizard can keep up in the dps race? I usually take no more than 1-2 wizards in the group, but dont' care if sorcs take up to every slot in the group and run sans melee. I'm not comparing class capabilities here with max gear blahblahblah. Just for your standard PUGger. Would you really trust a wizard to be specc'd and geared to take out the big guns when it comes to nuking?