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  1. #1
    Community Member Chrasch's Avatar
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    Lightbulb Special Prestige Enhancements for Multiclassers

    Becomes available at level 10 and grants special bonuses related to the classes

    5 levels in Cleric + 5 levels in Wizard or Sorcerer = Mystic Theurge
    5 levels in Ranger + 5 levels in Cleric = Druid
    5 levels in Fighter + 5 levels in Wizard or Sorcerer = Swordmage

    I'm sure there are others but i can't think of them right now. Also there could be a much more powerful version available at level 20 for those that are 10 and 10.

  2. #2
    Community Member Zachski's Avatar
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    They would have to be powerful to justify a half split.
    The guy who likes to experience every class. Except Fighter >:[ I don't like you Fighter.
    Hey Devs! Let's give Warpriests and Eldritch Knights some loving, kay? :<

  3. #3
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    I like the idea a lot. The system could cover many class compositions. Such as

    <> - Barb + rogue
    <> - Barb + bard
    <> - ranger + wizard/bard/sorc (more powerful or versatile aa?)
    <> - Fighter + cleric

    etc. Many possibilities. Not all possibilities should be buffed tho. Only those that could use it. Most are currently.. non-existent

    Some 5-5-5 (or 6-6-6 or 4-4-4 or sumthin) splits could be added too. Guess this is one of (maybe many) great ideas I hope the devs would someday get to For me, multiclassing is perhaps the most fascinating thing about d&d/ddo.

    Hmm. Guess I'd like it more to be more incremental. Such as 1st at 3-3, 2nd at 6-6 etc. Wouldn't need to be so.. influential.

  4. #4
    Community Member Chrasch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by phum View Post
    I like the idea a lot. The system could cover many class compositions. Such as

    <> - Barb + rogue
    <> - Barb + bard
    <> - ranger + wizard/bard/sorc (more powerful or versatile aa?)
    <> - Fighter + cleric

    etc. Many possibilities. Not all possibilities should be buffed tho. Only those that could use it. Most are currently.. non-existent

    Some 5-5-5 (or 6-6-6 or 4-4-4 or sumthin) splits could be added too. Guess this is one of (maybe many) great ideas I hope the devs would someday get to For me, multiclassing is perhaps the most fascinating thing about d&d/ddo.

    Hmm. Guess I'd like it more to be more incremental. Such as 1st at 3-3, 2nd at 6-6 etc. Wouldn't need to be so.. influential.
    I chose the ones i did because those are actual classes: Mystic Theurge, Druid, and Swordmage. The idea is to create pseudo-classes that are in D&D and not DDO. Fighter and Cleric kind of equals Paladin or Favored Soul. For example i thought of another one I thought of just now: Wizard + Sorcerer + Chaotic alignment = Warlock.

  5. #5
    Community Member Lyzern's Avatar
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    How about this:

    6+ Levels of Bard (Virtuoso Prestige required) + Y levels of Rogue
    Silent Charmer
    Passive: Your songs do not alert you of your presence, instead they emit sound through echoes and monsters aren't alerted by them, making them vulerable to any song effects without notice. (This would be good if you were in Stealth and wanted to cast Fascinate/Enthral)
    Active: A single attack that sleeps one enemy and reduces its AC by X, the monsters have Y% chance to wake with an attack, the sleep lasts for N seconds.

    Just something I thought of cause I like this combo for some reason.

    Spellsinger + Wizard prestiges would also be good for the metamagic feats I suppose.

  6. #6
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Leaving the mechanics of this to the experts, but at first glance this sounds like a good idea. It would make the 'flavor' builds so much more viable, and the game could certainly use more flavor.

    mmmm, donuts...

    what were we talking about again?
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  7. #7
    Hero Arlathen's Avatar
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    Hmm, good idea, potential for abuse like any offered 'extra' abilities though - who remebers every multiclass having Ranger 6/Tempest1 with the +10% Competence Attack Speed bonus? However, that depends on implementation by the Devs, I guess.

    Some multiclass love would be nice though
    Quote Originally Posted by twinstronglord View Post
    Up to this point we've all been beating around the bush. Lolth has a very small box in which you can hit her.

  8. #8
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    Quote Originally Posted by Chrasch View Post
    I chose the ones i did because those are actual classes: Mystic Theurge, Druid, and Swordmage. The idea is to create pseudo-classes that are in D&D and not DDO. Fighter and Cleric kind of equals Paladin or Favored Soul. For example i thought of another one I thought of just now: Wizard + Sorcerer + Chaotic alignment = Warlock.
    Yep Many possibilities. To what extent they should be based on D&D prestige classes is debatable, but I guess it would be a bonus Anything they add about mc prestiges could pretty much be a bonus for me tho.

    The more they try to stick to D&D the harder it might become imo.. Didn't the divorce happen already? (just joking any additional reference to actual D&D is definetly a plus for me too^^)

  9. #9
    The Hatchery bigolbear's Avatar
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    this is a concept i and many others asked for a long time ago (when prestiges started to appear). that post was aknowleged by eu admin and passed to devs at the time, im sure there was a similar thread on the us servers too. The result was the current incarnation of arcane archer and warchanter both of which are highly suited to many multiclass builds.

    Unfortunately the capstones have negatively impacted both of these prestiges when it comes to multiclassing. When warchanter was released for example at cap 16 a multiclass bard warchanter could have better songs than a pure bard - with a detriment to spellcasting of course. arcane archer on the other hand gave an elven mage a serious option for if they wanted to conserve mana which due to SLA's etc is no longer a problem.

    Id be all for both of these getting a fresh look with the eye to make them multiclass freindly again and the same goes for the planned 'warpriest' and 'acolyte of the skin'
    Ex Euro player from devourer: Charaters on orien(Officer of Under Estimated & Nightfox): Wrothgar, Cobolt, Shadeweaver, TheMetal, Metaphysical, Allfred, Razortusk and many more.
    stuff by me: http://forums.ddo.com/showthread.php...02#post4938302

  10. #10
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    Quote Originally Posted by bigolbear View Post
    this is a concept i and many others asked for a long time ago (when prestiges started to appear). that post was aknowleged by eu admin and passed to devs at the time, im sure there was a similar thread on the us servers too. The result was the current incarnation of arcane archer and warchanter both of which are highly suited to many multiclass builds.

    Unfortunately the capstones have negatively impacted both of these prestiges when it comes to multiclassing. When warchanter was released for example at cap 16 a multiclass bard warchanter could have better songs than a pure bard - with a detriment to spellcasting of course. arcane archer on the other hand gave an elven mage a serious option for if they wanted to conserve mana which due to SLA's etc is no longer a problem.

    Id be all for both of these getting a fresh look with the eye to make them multiclass freindly again and the same goes for the planned 'warpriest' and 'acolyte of the skin'
    Thx for info^^ Really hope they are going for more multiclass friendly enhancements..

  11. #11
    Founder Aesop's Avatar
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    I like the concept, it has been brought up before. If it does happen it likely will be after all the pure class PrEs are finished.

    Druid however is a Class not a PrC and so would not be included. Not if Turbine wanted to avoid a group of angry nerds rampaging all over them.


    Other potential additions

    Eldritch Knight (Fighter/Wizard)
    Arcane Trickster (Rogue/Wizard)
    Ultimate Magus (Sorcerer/Wizard)
    Rage Mage (Barbarian/Wizard)


    Aesop
    Rule 1: Don't sweat the small stuff
    Rule 2: Its all small stuff
    Rule 3: People are stupid. You, me everyone... expect it
    more rules to come in a different sig

  12. #12
    Community Member Gauthaag's Avatar
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    and True necromancer - wizzy/cleric

  13. #13
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    The major problem I can see with this idea is twofold:

    1. It railroads builders; When building a multiclass toon, not just the enhancements are important but the core abilities of the classes, if you implement some super powered PrE that you can only get by losing out on core feats then you're going to force feats to be less important and also make multi-classes that don't get a PrE resentful or more likely to pick that multi-class to get hold of the PrE, which brings me to problem #2

    2. If you want to please people with this idea you have to plan for every eventuality, there has to be a good variety or you will kill interesting or flavour builds, people will only build towards getting their sweet-ass PrEs.

    One of the beauties of DDO's system is the level of flexibility, building your toon specifically around a PrE can be kind of a bad idea (and a great way to gimp yourself when they change the PrE)

    Besides this, many PrEs in the game are already ones you'd need to take a combination of classes to get, A ranger can't just become an arcane archer without levels in an arcane class.

    Mystic Theurge is a particularly bad idea (and probably a monster to implement) as it gives you spells from both schools of magic, it's perhaps /too/ overpowered for DDO, it's probably far simpler to give cleric a PrE that gives them access to some arcane spells or a wizard access to some divine spells instead...alternatively be a half elf of either and select the other as your dilettante ;p

    I can say that I LIKE the idea of multi-class based PrEs (as that's what the majority of prestige classes are anyhow), I just can't see how they could be implemented into DDO without being awful.

  14. #14
    Founder Aesop's Avatar
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    One thing I've always wished was that the Enhancements were less tied to Classes.

    If PrEs weren't tied to the 6/12/18 of classes and instead were tied to Feats Skills and Features then there could be more variety of builds.

    If Enhancements themselves were tied more to the build and less the class then we could see vastly different build choices and options open up.

    Then again people gravitate towards the most "optimal" and thus maybe we wouldn't see much difference. I would play different things... then again I try to now anyway... though less so with the power of some high tier PrEs

    Aesop
    Rule 1: Don't sweat the small stuff
    Rule 2: Its all small stuff
    Rule 3: People are stupid. You, me everyone... expect it
    more rules to come in a different sig

  15. #15
    Community Member Pingshot's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Aesop View Post
    One thing I've always wished was that the Enhancements were less tied to Classes.

    If PrEs weren't tied to the 6/12/18 of classes and instead were tied to Feats Skills and Features then there could be more variety of builds.

    If Enhancements themselves were tied more to the build and less the class then we could see vastly different build choices and options open up.

    Then again people gravitate towards the most "optimal" and thus maybe we wouldn't see much difference. I would play different things... then again I try to now anyway... though less so with the power of some high tier PrEs

    Aesop
    Something like this:
    Eldritch Knight Require All: Power attack; Require One of: Wizard 5, Sorcerer 6, Bard 7
    Divine Champion Require All: Weapon Focus; Require One of: Cleric 1, FvS 1, Paladin 4, Ranger 4
    Sacred Fist Requre All: Stunning fist, Combat Casting; Require One of: Cleric 1, FvS 1, Paladin 4, Ranger 4
    Last edited by Pingshot; 06-20-2011 at 08:04 AM.

  16. #16
    Community Member Chrasch's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxson View Post
    The major problem I can see with this idea is twofold:

    1. It railroads builders; When building a multiclass toon, not just the enhancements are important but the core abilities of the classes, if you implement some super powered PrE that you can only get by losing out on core feats then you're going to force feats to be less important and also make multi-classes that don't get a PrE resentful or more likely to pick that multi-class to get hold of the PrE, which brings me to problem #2

    2. If you want to please people with this idea you have to plan for every eventuality, there has to be a good variety or you will kill interesting or flavour builds, people will only build towards getting their sweet-ass PrEs.

    One of the beauties of DDO's system is the level of flexibility, building your toon specifically around a PrE can be kind of a bad idea (and a great way to gimp yourself when they change the PrE)

    Besides this, many PrEs in the game are already ones you'd need to take a combination of classes to get, A ranger can't just become an arcane archer without levels in an arcane class.

    Mystic Theurge is a particularly bad idea (and probably a monster to implement) as it gives you spells from both schools of magic, it's perhaps /too/ overpowered for DDO, it's probably far simpler to give cleric a PrE that gives them access to some arcane spells or a wizard access to some divine spells instead...alternatively be a half elf of either and select the other as your dilettante ;p

    I can say that I LIKE the idea of multi-class based PrEs (as that's what the majority of prestige classes are anyhow), I just can't see how they could be implemented into DDO without being awful.
    But.... but Mystic Theurge is the one I want most Well that and Swordmage It's not that broken. I mad a Wiz/Clr yesterday and it seems interesting but not any near broken as say, a Warforged Wizard.

  17. #17
    Community Member Chrasch's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by Aesop View Post
    I like the concept, it has been brought up before. If it does happen it likely will be after all the pure class PrEs are finished.

    Druid however is a Class not a PrC and so would not be included. Not if Turbine wanted to avoid a group of angry nerds rampaging all over them.


    Other potential additions

    Eldritch Knight (Fighter/Wizard)
    Arcane Trickster (Rogue/Wizard)
    Ultimate Magus (Sorcerer/Wizard)
    Rage Mage (Barbarian/Wizard)


    Aesop
    Those are AWESOME! Except I think the Eldritch Knight would be Fighter/Sorcerer since Swordmage is really close to Fighter/Wizard.

  18. #18
    Hatchery Hero BOgre's Avatar
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    Quote Originally Posted by Maxson View Post
    2. If you want to please people with this idea you have to plan for every eventuality, there has to be a good variety or you will kill interesting or flavour builds, people will only build towards getting their sweet-ass PrEs.
    I would tend to disagree with that. As it is, most players grav towards established builds, with flavor builds being vastly inferior and non-viable. A 10/10 split would have little chance of survival nearing end-game. ADDing value to 10/10 splits or 7/6/7's or whatever, would make flavor builds MORE attractive, I'd think.
    Quote Originally Posted by Towrn
    ...when the worst thing that happens when you make a mistake at your job is someone complains on the internet, you probably care a little less!

  19. #19
    Community Member andbr22's Avatar
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    I would see this more like special Enchantments for certain multiclassses.

    Barbarian and divine caster -> divine casting while raged (it is accualy more undertable than arcane casting while raged).
    Barbarian and Wild Mage -> arcane casting while raged.
    12 Fighter Kensai + Monk Adept of Element (lv 7) -> weapon of choise is considerated as Ki-Weapon
    Monk and Wizard (PM) -> Bonusses to unarmed fighting.

    Probably you could think of more.

  20. #20
    Community Member Chrasch's Avatar
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    Thumbs up

    Quote Originally Posted by B.Ogre View Post
    I would tend to disagree with that. As it is, most players grav towards established builds, with flavor builds being vastly inferior and non-viable. A 10/10 split would have little chance of survival nearing end-game. ADDing value to 10/10 splits or 7/6/7's or whatever, would make flavor builds MORE attractive, I'd think.
    Thank you. This is the exact reason i want this. The character I'm currently using is half cleric and half wizard.

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