When to start epics?

[Vyrn]

Irony is that when I first started playing. I ran my shrouds/hounds/vods and worked up some basic gear (leviks bracers, spectral gloves, min2 falchion, bloodstone, GS HP item etc) BEFORE I even attempted my first epic. Even still, a prominent member of your guild refused to group with me for the longest time, although he has since changed that position .

The OP has earned no raid items and he is thinking about jumping into epics. Many of you are encouraging him to do it.

I personally think he should go do some raids hound/vod/shroud, TOD flag himself, do a TOD. Once he can do all those things then he can start running epics. Freshly capped characters do not belong in epics, not even house P or D laugh fests.
Do TOD first, then do epic.

Not my server, and I havent myDDOd him, just making that clear. Just want to say, myDDO is horrible, and doesnt work half the time. If I looked at my own myDDO sheet, I see a char thats complete trash. In truth though, I have exactly 3 items from that page that I still use. Soon to be 2.

Just saying, trusting myDDO is a bad idea.

[MeliCat]

My clonk helf sorc dili is gearless except some TOD items and T2 GS goggles. She is however built for things like VON6 (dili cold shield and just stand there and take it on the bases while healing). She has no problems with house p and k. She's much easier that my full cleric who is much better geared. Helps if you know the epics too. While you are trying to epically gear up other chars, a healer is a good option.

[Vallin]

There is some good advice in this thread and people have already listed out the 'easier' epics - but I think in general that many people who commented are not considering the full range of actions that a cleric or FvS might bring into an epic quest. These classes do a lot more than just heal - here are some examples.

1. Dropping a BB and kiting mobs while a party groups/regroups.
2. Using DoT spells.
3. Other CC via greater command, cometfalls, summons.
4. Insta kills via implosion or destruction when needed.
5. Debuffs including symbols.
6. Swapping between harm/heal for PMs.
7. Other party buffs as needed.
8. Melee support (Energy draining, melee).
etc...

In order to effectively fulfill this broader list of activities you will be better off improving your gear and getting minimal items like:

1. Amrath clickies including:
Ardor
Jump
Invis
GH

2. Shroud HP and SP items.

3. Necromancy and evocation boosting gear

4. Raid gear and raid experience

5. Farm a bauble you won't regret it. Get Twisted Talisman and Spell Storing Ring too if possible.

This is just a start to some advice. Yes - you can contribute to some basic epic quests just by healing - but you will accomplish more by striving to do more and by preparing yourself appropriately.

Vallin.

[MeliCat]

There is some good advice in this thread and people have already listed out the 'easier' epics - but I think in general that many people who commented are not considering the full range of actions that a cleric or FvS might bring into an epic quest. These classes do a lot more than just heal - here are some examples.

1. Dropping a BB and kiting mobs while a party groups/regroups.
2. Using DoT spells.
3. Other CC via greater command, cometfalls, summons.
4. Insta kills via implosion or destruction when needed.
5. Debuffs including symbols.
6. Swapping between harm/heal for PMs.
7. Other party buffs as needed.
8. Melee support (Energy draining, melee).
.

Yes well you can do all this without gear... if you're starting off fairly gearless *and* not knowing the epics then just jumping in with mainly just a healing mentality is not a bad thing... and then you can work up to this.... Knowing where and when (and when *not*) is kind of key here... most likely the OP is doing all this already just while out questing that it's not a big deal to incorporate this into epics...

(and drat the caster who fingers the mob *i've* just drained to destruct!!!!)

[Khellendros13]

PM me your name so I can not group with you ever.

I don't think that will be much of an issue for Diedie...lol

I am actually pleasantly surprised when I see a Cleric or FvS with over 400hp.

Maatogaeoth, feel free to join any raids or epics lead by a CE member, and just shoot them a tell.

My biggest tip, is use and abuse Holy Aura. It makes healing a lot easier, the incoming damage is much more manageable. The +4 to saves DOES make a difference when there are casters around. It makes a massive difference in Epic quests when the caster is struggling with DC's.

However if this is your main toon, you should be focused on running these raids into the ground: VoD, ToD, DQ, Abbot and Shroud. Hound is good for the shields, but the other items are pretty meh.

[phalaeo]

432HP 2372 SP

Basically you are an ungeared fvs that doesnt belong in epics. You have zero raid/shroud items and zero epic items.

You can compensate for this by willingness to use scrolls/Pots.

Some epics are laughably easy. You can be carried through by stronger characters if you choose to sit in the back and heal (and contribute nothing else).

Minimum requirements to group with me: GS HP/SP Item. Tier3 GS weapon for melee. Depending on the class (Monks) i will require TOD rings and other gear.

You are missing SP item, bauble, abbot staff, vile blasphemy, TOD heal belt clickies, eardweller, festival dagger, noxious embers and a bunch of other equipment.

What these do is extend your mana so you can contribute other things Buffs/DPS/CC/Spell dps besides sitting in the back and healing. As I said, you can compensate for lack of raid/shroud items by using scrolls/SP pots.

HOWEVER, if you were to group with 6 ppl geared as poorly as you, you will fail, so in essence you will be heal botting a group of stronger characters that carry you through the quest until you get better gear.

Gimme a break. My Clerics heal epics with 1625 and 1815sp respectively. Do you really think that just because a piece of gear doesn't show on someone's MyDDO that they don't wear it? I'd be more worried if I did see a Bauble in someone's trinket slot.....matter of fact, I can't remember the last time I logged out with my Noxious Embers in my neck slot and Abbot Staff locked firmly in my hands. Good thing I don't wear my Amrath clicky belts to bed, either... would really interfere with my CON....

If you're going to use MyDDO, at least acknowledge it's uses and faults. Just because someone wasn't wearing something when they logged out, doesn't mean they don't have it.

[Attropos]

Mine are listed below, please take note.

Gear is good, brains are better. Well at least you have some gear

This: gear is definitely good, but being a good player is even better.

Crazydamage is giving both good advice and bad advice because with more raid gear comes more play time meaning (hopefully) more skill. Easy epics will be easily done, but honestly, I've found running easy epics tends to create some lazy habits, especially while healing.

Stick to easier epics and you should be able to run them; just be aware that it is very easy to get stuck in the "I'm a healbot" type of thinking. Divines are so much more than heal bots.

[Attropos]

I don't think that will be much of an issue for Diedie...lol

I am actually pleasantly surprised when I see a Cleric or FvS with over 400hp.

Maatogaeoth, feel free to join any raids or epics lead by a CE member, and just shoot them a tell.

My biggest tip, is use and abuse Holy Aura. It makes healing a lot easier, the incoming damage is much more manageable. The +4 to saves DOES make a difference when there are casters around. It makes a massive difference in Epic quests when the caster is struggling with DC's.

However if this is your main toon, you should be focused on running these raids into the ground: VoD, ToD, DQ, Abbot and Shroud. Hound is good for the shields, but the other items are pretty meh.

Fantastic advice, and advice I always forget to give. On my favored soul, I generally wing in first, hit em all with Holy Aura to blind them, then start swinging.

Unless your arcane is keeping 24 hour displace up, the 50% miss chance helps alot, and the blinded mobs will go down more quickly.

[Alternative]

To run epics a healer only needs a basic ability to heal and not overheal if lowish sp, note 2300 is not lowish, 1500 is. I once invited a new guildie with a 17clr 2mnk 1rog with something around 1,5sp to come heal epic DA for us, I was on my wizard and promised him he won't use a potion, and he didn't.

Epics are a caster show and test of dps quality. The more you have to heal the more it means the CC or DPS is failing.

[MeliCat]

Epics are a caster show and test of dps quality. The more you have to heal the more it means the CC or DPS is failing.

I like this summary. It's true of questing in a more general way too.

[kingcom]

Okay as a PM wizard who just hit level 20 (still got lots of raiding for gear to do), what are the requirements for someone like me before I start epic quests? I hear the main concern is just getting DC 40 for my cc's but any other stat requirements? Any particular skills I need to learn?

[seobanio]

432HP 2372 SP

Basically you are an ungeared fvs that doesnt belong in epics. You have zero raid/shroud items and zero epic items.

You can compensate for this by willingness to use scrolls/Pots.

Some epics are laughably easy. You can be carried through by stronger characters if you choose to sit in the back and heal (and contribute nothing else).

Minimum requirements to group with me: GS HP/SP Item. Tier3 GS weapon for melee. Depending on the class (Monks) i will require TOD rings and other gear.

You are missing SP item, bauble, abbot staff, vile blasphemy, TOD heal belt clickies, eardweller, festival dagger, noxious embers and a bunch of other equipment.

What these do is extend your mana so you can contribute other things Buffs/DPS/CC/Spell dps besides sitting in the back and healing. As I said, you can compensate for lack of raid/shroud items by using scrolls/SP pots.

HOWEVER, if you were to group with 6 ppl geared as poorly as you, you will fail, so in essence you will be heal botting a group of stronger characters that carry you through the quest until you get better gear.

Laugh. Out. Loud. Didn't read a word after this post, just had to say something.

First of all, after you get all the gear that crazy would "require" you are going to realize that there are no hard epics. Even epics that seem hard when starting out (dq1, chains of flame, etc.) become super easy in a very short amount of time. Abbot, tod, and any amrath quest is probably harder for a fresh lvl 20 than all of the house p epics except a small problem.

And the fact that crazy thinks you will just be carried through or have to use pots says more about his lack of ability than yours. Sounds to me like crazy had some trouble when he first hit 20, which is his problem, not yours.

I would recommend start with like Under the Big top. Super easy and fast. Just make sure to get in a group with people who know what they are doing. An epic quest with someone who knows it is easy, an epic quest with people who don't is not so easy. Doing an epic you don't know the strategy for can be quite fun... later. Starting out you want to just get an experienced leader. Make sure to tell them you have never done an epic before.

As far as heal scrolls go, I can't remember how much plat I had when I hit lvl 20 the first time. So if the heal scrolls begin to be a huge drain on your plat pool, make sure to pay attention to whether you are overhealing, grouping with particularly bad groups, etc.

I checked out your myddo. 100% fort, over 2k sp, 400ish hp. Sounds good. Have fun.

[sirgog]

Epics are a caster show and test of dps quality. The more you have to heal the more it means the CC or DPS is failing.

The biggest causes of needing to heal a lot are having a sole Arcane get Disintegrated in intense fights (no more Discoball), losing a Mass Heal to interruption (mostly Cometfall), or having Displacements wear off.

Usually the third one.

DPS output is almost totally irrelevant to healing requirements. 450hp melees without Displacement that deal 400 DPS will need a lot of healing, maybe even mana pots. 650hp melees with Displacement that deal only 300 DPS will see you hit every shrine with 3/4 of your SP left.

[cheever77]

PM me your name so I can not group with you ever.

Sorry crazy here ya go... Should actually put my names in my sig....

So toons for crazy not to group with are.....

Diedie, Diediie, Eddddiiieee, Eddwina, Jukeboxer, Ceetrepeeo and Dreamstealer.

You may remember the last name from your wiz king farming runs...

You said be self sufficent and don't die...... While I managed to do 2 towers while you were dead in one tower twice


But hey thats fine man you know what Please feel free to Squelch me.

[crazydamage]

Sorry crazy here ya go... Should actually put my names in my sig....

So toons for crazy not to group with are.....

Diedie, Diediie, Eddddiiieee, Eddwina, Jukeboxer, Ceetrepeeo and Dreamstealer.

You may remember the last name from your wiz king farming runs...

You said be self sufficent and don't die...... While I managed to do 2 towers while you were dead in one tower twice


But hey thats fine man you know what Please feel free to Squelch me.

I'm at the point in the game where I no longer require many quests. The ones I do require I can often solo or group with a few people that I regularly run with anyway. I'm sure its the same way for you so it really doesnt matter for either of us.

I'm not here to carry anyone through any quests, and I dont expect other people to carry me. If you want to carry a freshly capped lvl 20 that's your choice and I respect that, but that is not the way I play. I have nothing personal against you, we just play the game differently.

As for wiz king, I honestly dont remember grouping with you, and I may well have died. However, people that have lvled with me know that I rarely die and can zerg with the best.

[Terebinthia]

Eddiee you are the best.

<3

[cheever77]

I remember, I came in on my Sorc and saved the day on that one... you guys had already been in over 2 1/2 hours and had a list of over 10 people with deaths, so a lot had come in prior to me.. Sometimes it's fun saving a trainwreck

Yep it was a bit that way boldrin. Fun tho :-)

[cheever77]

Eddiee you are the best.

<3

Awwwwe shucks TY....

<3 YOu too Darl

[Boldrin]

Yep it was a bit that way boldrin. Fun tho :-)

I almost fell out of my chair when I saw the 200+ minute completion time, lol.. Definitely good times though...

[ddoplayer064]

Sorry crazy here ya go... Should actually put my names in my sig....

So toons for crazy not to group with are.....

Diedie, Diediie, Eddddiiieee, Eddwina, Jukeboxer, Ceetrepeeo and Dreamstealer.

You may remember the last name from your wiz king farming runs...

You said be self sufficent and don't die...... While I managed to do 2 towers while you were dead in one tower twice


But hey thats fine man you know what Please feel free to Squelch me.

toppie