Help with Free Thinking

[bigolbear]

if this is about sex before marriage - my advice to you is respect her wishes calmly and patiently.

if its shall we say more borderline - id advice you to get her to talk to her preist, about what they feel is appropriate behaviour in a modern relationship between 2 17year olds who obviously care enough about each other to be asking for help.

for any one to cry when they pray its is obvious that they truly do have faith, and trust me as she gets older that faith should mellow with life experience.

Id also suggest you go to her church with her, show her family and comunity that you are a part of her life and support her choices, feel free to explain that you dont beleive but say because you love her its important to you to meet them and understand her faith.

If she realy is as afraid as you put it id recomend buying her some presents - gifts of affection as it were. namely books about various faiths and history. your both quite young still and education as other have said is a great way to open minds.

I apreciate that your trying to help her but i think that the solution may lie with you, and your ability to accept her choices.

My advice can be simplified as this: accept her for what she is, dont try to change the person you fell in love with but theres no harm in learning more about a subject and participation in the comunity of your girlfriend will help assuage her fears.

[MartinusWyllt]

Maybe this has been said already...

1. You can't change anyone's mind.

therefore

Get out. If you stay together you'll be miserable all the days of your lives together.

since

You can both find mates with more compatible belief systems and be much happier for it.

(Though given 1. I don't expect you'll change your mind, either, and I would have had just made "I told you so." reservations for some point in the future.)

[johnyBgood]

BREAK UP

you two are unevenly yoked (2 Corinthians 6:14) if You want to open YOUR mind

[flameninja]

BREAK UP

you two are unevenly yoked (2 Corinthians 6:14) if You want to open YOUR mind

I...wow... I wont even give you a rebuttal if you are going to tell me that I am wrong for my beliefs. When you, as a bible believer, know that other people have died for their beliefs. (I.e. Jesus)

[NeutronStar]

Absolutely not, this one I have no doubt about with statistics.

Ahhhh...statistics! Of course! They're always right!

[johnyBgood]

I never said you were wrong for your beliefs, I implied you two are wrong for eachother..I stand by that..

Unless you read over some of the advice given by others and take heed you are going down a painfull road.

[katz]

i have already mentioned the concept of being unequally yoked. this *has* been a relatively civil conversation so far, and surprisingly has not been locked yet... but telling someone so bluntly to "break up" is a bit harsh. perhaps it is good advice, given the situation, but your delivery needs work

Unless you read over some of the advice given by others and take heed you are going down a painfull road.

true. not easy to listen to, but true. and a bit better than the first post

[NeutronStar]

Umm, read most of the posts skimmed others. As much as this maybe more than just a belief issue....I would suggest the simplest solution I can think of first.

Get her to do something she should have no problem with. Read the Bible. But with two rules. She has to read it critically. Not disassembling the message but reading each message/parable with a thought to what her beliefs tell her and what other ideas could be inferred from the story. Second, only read the New Testament. It is vastly less fire and brimstone based and is the basis of Christianity (seeing as it is mainly the story of Christ and his teachings). The old testament is the story of an angry and vengeful god that preceded the coming of Christ....that god is tempered by Christ's forgiveness based teachings. Thus I think if she focuses on the story of Christ she can potentially learn that her understanding of the 'rules' of life based on the Bible are significantly different than those put forward by her mother/current church.

I hope that helps but if not. Just love her as much as you can, but keep true to yourself as well.

awesome post. +1

You guys missed the part where the OP said if she went to a different church, she would be in serious trouble.

No doubt she would also be punished by her mother if she found out her daughter was reading the New Testament with someone else and coming up with different interpretations.

Come on guys, read the OP's posts and really try to see what's going on here.

The girl's in a religious cult. Really.

[bigolbear]

oh and if it helps in any way.

ive always thought of the sentance 'love thy neighbour' to mean love and respect those of diferent cultures, beleifs and ethnicity as your equals.

also the line 'man cannot know all that is in heaven and earth' to mean that even thoise with faith folowing a path are right, but so are those folowing another path in life.

[flameninja]

i have already mentioned the concept of being unequally yoked. this *has* been a relatively civil conversation so far, and surprisingly has not been locked yet... but telling someone so bluntly to "break up" is a bit harsh. perhaps it is good advice, given the situation, but your delivery needs work

Not to mention I was at fault for getting so defensive, so quickly.

[flameninja]

You guys missed the part where the OP said if she went to a different church, she would be in serious trouble.

No doubt she would also be punished by her mother if she found out her daughter was reading the New Testament with someone else and coming up with different interpretations.

Come on guys, read the OP's posts and really try to see what's going on here.

The girl's in a religious cult. Really.

I think its just her mom mainly...but thinking about it...you might be right.

If her mom found out she was playing D&D and ddo with me...it wouldn't be pretty...

[katz]

You guys missed the part where the OP said if she went to a different church, she would be in serious trouble.

No doubt she would also be punished by her mother if she found out her daughter was reading the New Testament with someone else and coming up with different interpretations.

Come on guys, read the OP's posts and really try to see what's going on here.

The girl's in a religious cult. Really.

having a strict mother does not a cult make

[johnyBgood]

@katz..ya'know, yer right I am very unpolished in my delivery, but its direct and to the point..its how I am ..I dont intend to be mean or cruel.

sorry flame if that is how I came off to you as well.

[NeutronStar]

ive always thought of the sentance 'love thy neighbour' to mean love and respect those of diferent cultures, beleifs and ethnicity as your equals.

According to the Gospels (Jesus), yes. According to the book of Isaiah, not really. How much you want to bet, the girl's "pastor" (leader) is more old-school, Old Testament (Isaiah), fire & brimstone than the Gospels. It was also established by the OP in an earlier post the girl's "church" also believes in "extra stuff" that the leader has given the congregation.

also the line 'man cannot know all that is in heaven and earth' to mean that even thoise with faith folowing a path are right, but so are those folowing another path in life.

See Harold Camping as proof of this. The girl's church "leader," by virtue of the fact he's "adding" stuff to the teachings of the Bible, probably does not adhere to your statement.


Seriously guys, I don't think you really know what this poor girl is dealing with.

[flameninja]

@katz..ya'know, yer right I am very unpolished in my delivery, but its direct and to the point..its how I am ..I dont intend to be mean or cruel.

sorry flame if that is how I came off to you as well.

its k

[NeutronStar]

having a strict mother does not a cult make

I wasn't referring to her mother. See my post (#94) above. Also, re-read the OP's posts.

[johnyBgood]

oh ya...If she goes to the Westborough Baptist Church....or anything like it..well....runaway

[sebastianosmith]

Belief is completely unimportant. If a thing exists, it does so not because of any belief in it. If a thing does not exist, no amount of belief will make it do so. Whether one believes in a god or not has nothing whatsoever to do with its existence. It either is or it is not.

All the other trappings of belief are there to discourage believers from questioning their beliefs.

[Teech]

According to the Gospels (Jesus), yes. According to the book of Isaiah, not really. How much you want to bet, the girl's "pastor" (leader) is more old-school, Old Testament (Isaiah), fire & brimstone than the Gospels. It was also established by the OP in an earlier post the girl's "church" also believes in "extra stuff" that the leader has given the congregation.

See Harold Camping as proof of this. The girl's church "leader," by virtue of the fact he's "adding" stuff to the teachings of the Bible probably does not adhere to your statement.

Seriously guys, I don't think you really know what this poor girl is dealing with.

Neither do you honestly. Neither does the OP.
He 'thinks' that the girl's church is 'adding stuff'. Does he know? Or assuming? How much does he know about her beliefs? Or Christianity in general? Pls don't assume anything in a relationship. That's what leads to communication failure and the slow death of many relationships.

Either way, starting from the position that she is in a cult is a huge assumption to make and trying to 'help' her from that as a starting point is probably not a good idea.

My advice? Go seek out a real professional. Counsellor, pastor, whatever. Stop looking for professional advice in a gaming forum where you do not know the background, character, or qualifications of the people handing out 'advice'.

[flameninja]

Belief is completely unimportant. If a thing exists, it does so not because of any belief in it. If a thing does not exist, no amount of belief will make it do so. Whether one believes in a god or not has nothing whatsoever to do with its existence. It either is or it is not.

All the other trappings of belief are there to discourage believers from questioning their beliefs.

I didnt like it when the bible guys started saying stuff according to their beliefs... I have to be fair.