Help with Free Thinking

[flameninja]

Alright, before I say anything about the actual topic I have to warn every christian person that in this topic, I will have to say a few things that are "Bad" according to your "God." So, unless you can keep an open mind, please close this window.

My girlfriend and I have one argument over and over all the time. Belief.

She was raised as a christian and is scared about everything because of it. She gets into tears every time she even kisses me due to her Fear of the christian god.

I am not an atheist, but I do not believe in any "God" at the moment. I am just trying to find out what really is happening and what will.

She (My gf) only believes in Christianity because she is afraid of what will happen to her if she doesn't. She becomes very sick at the though of said fear, and is even crying in bed as I type this.

I need some help. She only thinks like this because her mom drilled it into her head so much that she can even think to figure out what she needs in life other then this so called "God." She will not think for herself.

I need help teaching her how and why to think freely away from this type of belief. I hate that she is so scared of everything that is simply basic Humanity.

Please, I have no problem with any type of religion, belief, ect., but this has got to stop... she has just cried herself to sleep while "Praying"... Help me.

[Tazar]

I'm not sure if I'm treading on troll ground here or not but what i will say is that belief is a powerful thing.
I wouldn't try to break her of her religion only work within the confines already set out. If you truly want to help her(and she truly wants it) then perhaps focusing on the hope that a religion offers her and slowly coming to see that her God is loving and not anything to be scared of.

As Yeats said
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.

[Simplesimon1979]

Mind you I'm no bible thumper, but I do go to church per the wife.

You said she is a chritian so she believes that christ died on the cross for our sins both old and those to come. The time before christ was the law. You were not to sin and you where judge for your sins but after christ was the glorey. He(christ) payed our deapt. That is what comunion is. Remebering what he did for us. Aslong as she takes jesus into her heart and believes then she has nothing to worry about. She'll still be saved

[flameninja]

I'm not sure if I'm treading on troll ground here or not but what i will say is that belief is a powerful thing.
I wouldn't try to break her of her religion only work within the confines already set out. If you truly want to help her(and she truly wants it) then perhaps focusing on the hope that a religion offers her and slowly coming to see that her God is loving and not anything to be scared of.

As Yeats said
I have spread my dreams under your feet;
Tread softly because you tread on my dreams.

Trust me, I'm no troll. And thank you for not jumping to far to that conclusion.

I'm not trying to break her from her beliefs. I would be glad if she focused on doing good things and helping people as it says in the bible. I just want her alive and not afraid. I don't want her to believe in that "God" out of fear.

[mindlessdrone1991]

I am not an atheist, but I do not believe in any "God" at the moment.

Checked a dictionary lately? You, sir, are an atheist. But that is neither here nor there.

I need help teaching her how and why to think freely away from this type of belief.

Does it count as free thinking if you're imposing it on her?

Religious beliefs rise out of more than just childhood indoctrination: it's ultimately a failing of critical thinking. If someone can't think critically, they will not react well to someone directly challenging their beliefs. From your description, your girlfriend will not be able to handle you directly challenging her beliefs.

Education is the great equalizer though. Try to encourage her to learn about science and why the scientific method is useful. "Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has" (Martin Luther). Once she develops the critical thinking skills required to logically assess her own beliefs, try to challenge them a little more. Why doesn't she believe in Allah? Or Thor, or Odin, or Krishna or Vishnu, or Buddha?

The process will take time, but free thinking is worth it.

[English_Warrior]

You guys can't talk about this topic on the forums (or in game). Sorry.

IBTL

[mindlessdrone1991]

You guys can't talk about this topic on the forums (or in game). Sorry.

IBTL

4 AM East coast time. We have a few hours before the thread gets locked, I think. (Could be wrong.)

[flameninja]

Checked a dictionary lately? You, sir, are an atheist. But that is neither here nor there.



Does it count as free thinking if you're imposing it on her?

Religious beliefs rise out of more than just childhood indoctrination: it's ultimately a failing of critical thinking. If someone can't think critically, they will not react well to someone directly challenging their beliefs. From your description, your girlfriend will not be able to handle you directly challenging her beliefs.

Education is the great equalizer though. Try to encourage her to learn about science and why the scientific method is useful. "Reason is the greatest enemy that faith has" (Martin Luther). Once she develops the critical thinking skills required to logically assess her own beliefs, try to challenge them a little more. Why doesn't she believe in Allah? Or Thor, or Odin, or Krishna or Vishnu, or Buddha?

The process will take time, but free thinking is worth it.

I said this "Type" of belief. Like I said, I do not mind ,or care, if she is a christian.

I just dont want her to be scared for the rest of her life.

[AMDarkwolf]

I think this thread is about fear controlling you, and not your beliefs or religion.

Now fear is a very VERY powerful thing. But knowledge will trump it every single time. The problem with this is that the only knowledge we have of Christ is what we read in the bible, and I personally think the bible was written by man, over time, to try to 'explain' what morals are, in a way that was best understood by people of days past.

The bible alone has made much of civilization possible, just because of the morals it tries to instil in us.

The problem is that if u follow something too literally, you lose focus of what really matters. Look at what the bible tries to teach us, now look at all the wars that have resulted from people with VERY similar beliefs with one slightly different 'fact'


My only suggestion would be to get her to learn all she can about Christianity. Not just what u learn in church, but ALL of it. (IE: Go to a non-religion library and do a little reading)

In the end its not so scary.

[Simplesimon1979]

You guys can't talk about this topic on the forums (or in game). Sorry.

IBTL

Think this post is ok. The only thing I can find in the code of cunduct about religion is this

13.You may not form or participate in groups whose ideology is based upon or resembles anti-religious, anti-ethnic, anti-sexual orientation, racist or sexist philosophies.

We arn't talking about anti-religion just regular religion

But in the end
Note: Turbine has final say over what constitutes a violation of this Code of Conduct. Turbine reserves the right to change the Code of Conduct at any time. Check the Dungeons&Dragons Online website (ddo.com) periodically for updates to the Code of Conduct.


So we'll see if the cube eats it or not

[flameninja]

I think this thread is about fear controlling you, and not your beliefs or religion.

Now fear is a very VERY powerful thing. But knowledge will trump it every single time. The problem with this is that the only knowledge we have of Christ is what we read in the bible, and I personally think the bible was written by man, over time, to try to 'explain' what morals are, in a way that was best understood by people of days past.

The bible alone has made much of civilization possible, just because of the morals it tries to instil in us.

The problem is that if u follow something too literally, you lose focus of what really matters. Look at what the bible tries to teach us, now look at all the wars that have resulted from people with VERY similar beliefs with one slightly different 'fact'


My only suggestion would be to get her to learn all she can about Christianity. Not just what u learn in church, but ALL of it. (IE: Go to a non-religion library and do a little reading)

In the end its not so scary.

Thank you for that... However I dont think that she would listen to this without...eh...worrying to much.


To the guy that said that I am an atheist- I believe there is something, I just dont know what it is. I believe in ghosts, for that matter, and both of those points are things that atheists do not think are real.

[Nysrock]

Personally I don't think there is anything you can do to "change her mind". People will believe, for good or bad, what they want to believe. If this is such a powerful belief that she is constantly crying about it then I think if you try to change her you will only drive her away.

After 18 years of marriage I have learned that the best way to avoid a bad argument is to not attack her thoughts on subjects but rather to try to talk them out. Now this is not always easy and we have about a half dozen topics that we have placed on the "Do Not Talk About" list.

You might try reading, if your so inclined, the book by Richard Dawkins called "The God Delusion". It is a pretty good read and explains the difference between atheist's and agnostic's without totally jamming his own beliefs down your throat.

Either way I wish you good luck. But the best advice I could give you would be to try and love her the way she is, perceived flaws and all, rather then trying to change her to how you want her to be. When she is ready, or willing, she will make any changes on her own. just be patient.

[mindlessdrone1991]

13. Discussion of religious or political topics is prohibited on the Community Sites.

Oh well.

[flameninja]

Think this post is ok. The only thing I can find in the code of cunduct about religion is this

13.You may not form or participate in groups whose ideology is based upon or resembles anti-religious, anti-ethnic, anti-sexual orientation, racist or sexist philosophies.

We arn't talking about anti-religion just regular religion

But in the end
Note: Turbine has final say over what constitutes a violation of this Code of Conduct. Turbine reserves the right to change the Code of Conduct at any time. Check the Dungeons&Dragons Online website (ddo.com) periodically for updates to the Code of Conduct.


So we'll see if the cube eats it or not

I'm afraid (For safety of the company) that this will get locked, and that is why I am trying to get all of the info I can now.

[mournbladereigns]

Get a new GF /thread

[Narmolanya]

Is she happy in her faith or not?

Some people do best with that fear of god in them, some people thrive believing there is a just reward after life.

I for one believe in no afterlife or god, we are here now and gone tommorow. In time the stars and galaxies themselves will die out and the universe will become dark and cold. I find solace every time I look at the moon and think of all the lives that have shared that same bond. I am part of this tapestry of life.

Neither religion or science can answer for sure if there is a divine had at work so if any person is happy in their individual beliefs why would you try to change them?

[blkcat1028]

I was in an similar situation once. The only real solution I can, or could, think of is education, not only centered on critical thinking (which is sound advice) but on Christianity itself. It's amazing to see how an entire philosophy can be spun by someone else's interpretation. Religion is a personal thing. Encourage a self directed study on both Christianity and Science. Learn as much as possible and the fear will, eventually, subside.

You, by the by, are agnostic

[flameninja]

Get a new GF /thread

I'm just not like that. Leaving her is just something I WILL not and CAN not do. I cant run away from someone just because they need help.

[Buggss]

Ahhh... the source of more wars and deaths than anything else man has started.

Personally I hope and pray (odd word I know) that there's nothing whatsoever after I pop my clogs (die). An eternity of anything must get boring at some point. I think the closest we've got is the part during an operation between "Count to 10...." and ".....Welcome back, how do you feel?".

Having a gf who's also into questionable religious practices (avoiding a name on forum rule grounds, nothing dodgy ) I always try to point out the massive inconsistencies in every religion in existence (again being intentionally vague and none-specific) but to her belief is more important than fact so I kinda gave up long ago.

The only being in existence I/we can prove is ourselves so the most likely situation is that only I exist in all "creation" and you lot are all being dreamt up by me. With some people I know that's a hell of a scary thought but it takes all sorts, ya know!?

Now as far as the gf in the OP is concerned from vast personal experience I'd recommend what others have said and not try to force anything. From the sounds of it you're looking to maintain the relationship and making her choose between you and religion would probably come out badly for you. Therefore my suggestion if you're at the point that you're looking at choosing to split if nothing changes, try simply pointing out things that conflict with her beliefs without drawing any conclusions yourself. Allow her to do so if she's going to at all. As has been said if she's completely beyond any kind of logical questioning to allow this then I'd have to say you might be wasting your time. If there's enough of an issue for you, you may just want to think of calling it a day before things get more complicated.

Hope any/some of that helps, as has been said religion is a complicated setup and not all these various beliefs can be right, you can only show proof that argues with them and go from there.

Good luck either way!

I'm just not like that. Leaving her is just something I WILL not and CAN not do. I cant run away from someone just because they need help.

Well in that case you need to pick between your happiness and hers, if you think you can cope with a gf who's in tears as often as you say then all power to you, I honestly don't think I could. You're likely to end up growing old alone as any body can only take so much of that kind of stress. There's something to say for thinking of your own needs and wants as well as others'.

P.S. If I may ask, (and feel free to decline to answer) but how old (approximately) are you both?

[Nysrock]

One question myself and others have failed to ask. Just how old are you and your girlfriend anyways? The reason I ask is because a lot of your beliefs and ideas from when you are younger change as you grow older and experience more that life has to offer. It may be that all she needs is time to grow up some more. Or maybe not.

Also, whether you believe in it or not, I would suggest you find a priest/rabbi/minister to talk to. Not all of them are the "Fires of Damnation" type and you could probably find one that could help her with her fears. Just one suggestion among many.