20 Melee/Heal Spellsinger - TWF or THF?

[BoBoDaClown]

So,

My CC/Healing Bard doesn't feel as useful since the latest update, so I'm thinking of turning her into Heal/Melee Spellsinger, who still retains some CC through OID.

My options: 20 Human Spellsinger
TWF

Str: 17 + 5 levels
Dex: 14 (+3 tome)
Con: 15
Cha: 13

THF
Str: 18 +5 levels
Con: 16
Cha: 14

Feats:
Toughness
Quicken
Maximise
Improve Crit
Power Attack
TWF THF
ITWF ITHF
GTWF GTHF

I'm thinking TWF will be the better choice (better dps), but I'm sick of dual-wielding, and am therefore contemplating THF.

Any thoughts?

Cheers

[Nysrock]

I guess some of it depends on if you have any GS made already and, if so, what. If you have none then do you want to craft 2 weapons or just 1? Also, what kind of weapon are you looking at for TWF? IMHO I prefer using a Greataxe on my Warchanter Bard and so far I have little to no problems. Just decide how much ingredients you want to invest and go from there.

[BoBoDaClown]

I guess some of it depends on if you have any GS made already and, if so, what. If you have none then do you want to craft 2 weapons or just 1? Also, what kind of weapon are you looking at for TWF? IMHO I prefer using a Greataxe on my Warchanter Bard and so far I have little to no problems. Just decide how much ingredients you want to invest and go from there.

She has good healing/CC/hp equipment - nothing in the way of weapons.

Could make two lightning strikes - but I think rather get epic weapons; for something different (my other characters use GS) - especially as the epic weapons might be reviewed.

[BoBoDaClown]

I'm wondering if the THF will allow for a better stat spread, and 'to-hit', which could offset some of the loss damage from not doing TWF.

[maddmatt70]

I think thf is easier to implement. It is less stat/gear intensive. That would be my recommendation for someone new to melee/healing bards in general.

[BoBoDaClown]

I think thf is easier to implement. It is less stat/gear intensive. That would be my recommendation for someone new to melee/healing bards in general.

Not new to melee or healing bards.

I'm a bit worried that by going twf that the build will play too much like my 14/5/1 TWF bard, except with a few more 'bardie' options (and less dps). In fact I've never played a level 20 THF character.

However, I'm worried that going THF will result in to big a hit to dps, on what will ultimately be a moderate dps character (it seems to me that songs synergise with TWF).

[maddmatt70]

Not new to melee or healing bards.

I'm a bit worried that by going twf that the build will play too much like my 14/5/1 TWF bard, except with a few more 'bardie' options (and less dps). In fact I've never played a level 20 THF character.

However, I'm worried that going THF will result in to big a hit to dps, on what will ultimately be a moderate dps character (it seems to me that songs synergise with TWF).

If you have epic sos components laying around that works basically. If you do not have epic sos components laying around and you feel pretty strong in your capabilities and the character has a bunch of gear go twf.

[Samadhi]

I find it difficult to maintain TWF on a bard due to the feat requirement. Even on my old TWF bard, when I TR'd to a HOrc, I left my GS in the bank and switched to mauls. Just my personal preference, cause skipping things like extend I am not a fan of, whereas skipping THF feats is virtually meaningless.

[Emili]

Remember also that all the good weapons which fall under the THF lines are martial and fall outside bard proficiencies unless added by master's touch, feating or splash. It is far less stat and gear intensive yet need be made up somewhere else in scope of the character. THF does provide decent damage output and as a bard we're really in scope of line with mid-term melee... let's face it the songs are our main increase as it also applies amply to everyone around us.

Matt is correct that statwise THF is less intensive... may mind however need to consider what and how you intend to THF with.

I've tendancy to stick with bardic or racial weapons unless I truely and aiming for managing to toss a khopesh or two on it. You're asking for a pure melee spell singer and balancing such is often difficult wo taking a splash due to tightness of feats and scope of weaponry. I know my singer pretty much sticks with rapiers because of it. Am still running extend and max and even after spell pass it's hard to give up extend on the shorter buffs... people look at you strange passing out baby haste and displace.

To be quite honest spell pass had hurt the singer despite it's intention of openning spells up all they did was create focus change what be more easily applicable.

I find it difficult to maintain TWF on a bard due to the feat requirement. Even on my old TWF bard, when I TR'd to a HOrc, I left my GS in the bank and switched to mauls. Just my personal preference, cause skipping things like extend I am not a fan of, whereas skipping THF feats is virtually meaningless.

The tfh feats do poise meaning with the increase glancing but you may pass on them without too much severity... My chanter for instance is twf - Valenar... mostly using scimis yet she carries around a few flachions too cause lucked into some nice ones and x2 on pa with a boss who has fort you notice a difference over the scimi even though you're getting less attacks.

[Samadhi]

The tfh feats do poise meaning with the increase glancing ...

Prior to the change "no glancing blows while moving" I would have agreed with you. Since that change? There are about 3 places in the game I'm not moving; definitely not worth a feat.

[BlargneyTheSecond]

Having played both THF and TWF bards to level 20, my personal preference is definitely for THF. It's much less feat-, gear-, and stat-intensive, and the difference in dps is not worth the cost in my opinion.
-blarg

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

THF all the way.

You can argue till dooms day about the THF feats, but its secondary to your decision anyway.

TWF is a pain-in-the-a$$ in the to-hit dept... and without taking the twf feats, well 4get that, your doomed. If you cant hit it, the dps math stops, nothing else matters.

You've got your Quicken & Maximise for heals, so you can (and I would personally, at least initially) include the THF feats. Glancing blows are nice. It takes but a moment to stop, get your hits off, and move again. It only makes sense to set yourself to best utilize a two handed weapon. I love my THFs and although I still swear that they changed it, it makes sense.

If you dont take the THF feats, and they certainly aren't necessary, you can of course boost your healing and/or CC.

My final decision would depend on two things, how I'd like to play my spell singer, and gear. If you have torc/con op combo already, I'd seriously consider taking the Empower Healing feat. Set it on and forget it exists.

Well, good luck on your final decision!

[Aashrym]

Welcome to the new way club.

I went THF too but could go either way really.

[BoBoDaClown]

Yeah. Sad.

Has been a CC/Heal toon for years...

But doesn't seem worthwhile now.

[Aashrym]

I was still running CC for a bit and I think we might see changes going back that way eventually. Just not in the immediate future.

There`s not really much point in even trying to compare casting in epics now. We would need to have some unique and competitive bard spells that require a reasonable DC and be able to make that DC in order to do it. Or a reason to need a high CHA on a bard might do it too. If there were a good incentive to have high CHA the spellcasting would complement that.

[NaturalHazard]

She has good healing/CC/hp equipment - nothing in the way of weapons.

Could make two lightning strikes - but I think rather get epic weapons; for something different (my other characters use GS) - especially as the epic weapons might be reviewed.

I would say go 2hf, easyier on your stats, save that +3 dex tome. And most of the good epic weapons are 2 handers, I heard they will be upgrading the epic antique great axe. And yeah you just need 1 weapon, if you go greensteel only 5 LDS instead of 10.

[Miahoo]

Honest question, I just wonder, why do you wanna stay Spellsinger and not change to Warchanter?

[BoBoDaClown]

Honest question, I just wonder, why do you wanna stay Spellsinger and not change to Warchanter?

Fair question.

-Main reason: I already have a deep splash, melee Warchanter.
-I seem to be playing with a lot of casters at the moment, so while I recognise the value of +2 damage, the +1 DC and sp regen is pretty useful.
-I want to be able to maintain heavy healing duties - I realise this is possible with a WC, but I still prefer a Spellsinger for this aspect.

[Valindria]

Given that you already have a TWF WC and the information available I would go with THF. Personally I still like extend for haste/rage/displacement. You could drop the THF feats to pick up that feat + another two feats.

Feats:
Toughness
Quicken
Maximise
Improve Crit
Power Attack
Extend

2 other feat ideas:
- Cleave/Great Cleave
- Extra toughness
- Combat feats (stun, sap, etc)
- Skill Focus Perform - Probably a waste but SP on songs endging effect based on perform.

[LeslieWest_GuitarGod]

Fair question.

-Main reason: I already have a deep splash, melee Warchanter.
-I seem to be playing with a lot of casters at the moment, so while I recognise the value of +2 damage, the +1 DC and sp regen is pretty useful.
-I want to be able to maintain heavy healing duties - I realise this is possible with a WC, but I still prefer a Spellsinger for this aspect.

My vote? I'd definitely ditch the THF feats. Always on empower healing, and quicken/maximize when needed would allow you to heal any quest or raid up to your maximum personal ability. Lots of juicy healing options here. Empower healing not necessary but it stacks with maximize and can get you through certain quests without the need to turn on the more expensive maximize (and avoid overhealing).