PSA: Pug shrouds on Cannith should be better

[seobanio]

Hmmm wish I could change title. getting over the PSAs. Oh, well.

Decided to edit what I think based on feedback. I'm sure no one cares, but I'm at work so... of course this is best use of my time.

This is a thread about things I think should be done in PUG shrouds to speed up completion times, show respect for your group-mates, and to have a good time. The previous iteration of this post was more annoyed-xexa wishing that PUGS were not only better but more like guild raids. This iteration is less ranty and more thoughtful about things every group could do to make Pugging shroud a better experience for all.

In general Cannith is a great server and has fun people to group with. But I think sometimes people lack respect for others time. I'm not complaining about lack of beaters, hp, fort, skill, or whatever. I think the majority of shroud flagged people on the server are fine, do good enough dps, etc.

A laundry list of things to consider:

1. Completion time. The thing to understand about completion time is that if you care about the game you will probably do shroud A LOT. Whereas you start out with those 20 completions in mind, you will soon get to the point where your shroud completions can be measured by the hundreds, instead of by 20 at a time. So while the game is a great social experience, and shroud is a great place to meet like-minded new friends, a little bit of understanding that many just want to get in and get out of shroud is nice. At the same time understanding that there are new players, who may not be as geared or as knowledgeable but are probably willing to learn is good on the part of shroud veterans.

2. Buffs. Bring your own. Even if people are going to pass them out, it is just common courtesy to carry poison pots and resist fire 20 pots. I think part of this is knowing the capability of your toon. If no one hands out gh, but your toon has evasion and low hp or will have trouble hitting, asking for one is a good idea. But if you aren't squishy, and aren't going to have trouble hitting, why ask for it? You can (and should) get a gh clickie. The amrath neckie is easy to come by if you have the pack and there is also the planar gird that is ML:9 from xorian cypher which is F2P. Also, another note that Braegan reminded me of: people with sp they have but don't really use should be the ones to do buffing, e.g. rangers and paladins.

2.5 Barkskin. Barkskin is not a useful spell in shroud (or anywhere really, but thats a rant thread for another day.) It does however make everyone's toon ugly, which is why i especially hate this buff. LOL I can see much barkskin coming my way in future.

3. Going through the portal. Really, this one should be called not going through the portal. With the caveat that you should know shroud well enough to know whats going on before doing this: You too CAN hit the altar, and be the first one through portal. It is okay, just be aware of what is going on around you. One problem I see is everything is done and people just stand around for awhile.

3.5 Shards. Shards take a very long time in a lot of PUGS. An approach I have seen often is this, say in chat/mic w/e: Shard roll d100. Wait 30 seconds. Either pass or loot unless people are asking you to wait or you have some indication that you should be waiting longer. Mainly because people who want shards are usually paying attention at chest time, and if they aren't then your chat has already reminded them, so if they don't roll or say something, just loot and move on.

4 Puzzles. I don't think it matters if you don't know how to solve the puzzles, just use solver. My strategy on the circle puzzle for example is to run around on it for awhile till it is solved. Then, if it isn't solved, I pull up the solver. Even a 5x5 you can do, there are plenty of puzzle guides on forums and ppl are always happy to link them if you ask in your next shroud pug. Doing a little research on how to do the most run raid in the game is a good thing. If your computer can't handle shroud and solver, you need to learn how to do it by hand.

5. Not completing. If you don't want to complete, recall out when harry at 5% (unless you are sole healer) or /death when he dies. DO NOT CAST A DD. People might accidentally take it and be screwed out of chest.

6. Not Completing, part Two. Just Complete. I get that on your new toon it is really hard to get the ingredients for your first greensteel. But it is a better use of your time to complete, always get a large, and do other things to improve your character (such as lvl'ing up in crafting) than to not complete shroud. You could also spend the time leveling another shroud farmer. Roll a cleric or fvs, you won't need much gear to do shroud and you will always be welcome. Or, if you don't want to complete, only do so when you are definitely going to do shroud again within the next three days, and always complete once you are on ransack (unless farming for Shard I guess.) I have seen so many times people in chat say "i got no ingredients." group: are you on ransack. Person: yes. Us: ok well time to complete. Person @ end of part 5: dd plz.

7. Leading. Do not be afraid to post your own shroud and lead even if you don't know everything there is to know about shroud. (actually, that goes for everything in the game imo.) There are plenty of how to do shroud guides, I would probably check out one of those first. But you do not need to be the encyclopedia of everything that is shroud to lead a fun successful run, so if you don't like the offerings available, go ahead and post one. Just be ready to learn from your group-mates. Most people know shroud so well it doesn't matter if the leader is a first timer anyway.

[sirgog]

At 20, GH is more for the +4 Reflex save than the +4 To Hit, IMO.

Anyone with a Reflex save significantly under 28 should ask for GH for part 4. It's less stressful to heal ungeared PUGs when DBF does 95 damage most of the time, rather than doing 220 damage. (28 is, on Normal, the point that you save on a 2 against DBF. Meteor Swarm has a higher DC but usually people make 2-3 of the saves against it).

[seobanio]

I mean, I guess. Really GH at lvl 20 is for people with planar girds, amrath clickies, or scrolls. But in terms of the reflex save thing: groups don't wipe part 4, or if they do, it is rare. So worrying about GH for DBF is IMO a waste of time. But plenty of new rogues/ monks I have met seem to have trouble hitting, so for them it might be good.

[TheIvanovFamily]

Xexa wouldn't help me solve my 4x4 in shroud so I put her in my bio :<
(yes I know they autosolve)

[seobanio]

Yeah well Vasska is the star of the MOTD. I may or may not have started that. **whistles and looks innocent**

[TheIvanovFamily]

Yeah well Vasska is the star of the MOTD. I may or may not have started that. **whistles and looks innocent**

Uh oh, what does it say now? :v

[seobanio]

lolz, you are trying to get me banned for typing it on forums! lmao

[Daim]

2.5 Barkskin. Barkskin is not a useful spell in shroud (or anywhere really, but thats a rant thread for another day.) It does however make everyone's toon ugly. Even if someone is one of the very few that has high enough AC to matter, who cares? They'll get mass healed whether they need it or no.

After that mass camouflage nerf you better believe I am going to barkskin everyone. 90% of the time it's an improvement on your characters looks.

[Demeron]

How about just say ZERG QUICK FAST in your LFM?

Maybe you moaning b/c no one join you lfm then?

I am here for the fun, my fun and peeps have a different view on those things. For me it is a Fantasy MMO not a race game.......

Just make you owen LFM and say what you want, go whit guild or even go undermanned and your problem is solved.

[seobanio]

How about just say ZERG QUICK FAST in your LFM?

Maybe you moaning b/c no one join you lfm then?

I am here for the fun, my fun and peeps have a different view on those things. For me it is a Fantasy MMO not a race game.......

Just make you owen LFM and say what you want, go whit guild or even go undermanned and your problem is solved.

Lolz I was wondering how long it would be for people with whom I have done shroud recently to cry in the thread. For the record, I recall shrouding with gimpo and questing with cheeky people in general, and don't recall having any bad experiences.

I do make my own lfms for shroud... quite a bit. And people join my zerg lfms all the time for all kinds of things. But just because you haven't yet realized that ddo = mario kart does not mean your shrouds should be taking forever. All it takes is some common courtesy, instead of disrespect for other peoples time.

[Demeron]

Lolz I was wondering how long it would be for people with whom I have done shroud recently to cry in the thread. For the record, I recall shrouding with gimpo and questing with cheeky people in general, and don't recall having any bad experiences.

I do make my own lfms for shroud... quite a bit. And people join my zerg lfms all the time for all kinds of things. But just because you haven't yet realized that ddo = mario kart does not mean your shrouds should be taking forever. All it takes is some common courtesy, instead of disrespect for other peoples time.

Hey i nevers did say anything about bad expiriences:-) Just say your lfm your rule say Zerg and all should Zerg if it`s not in the LFM be prepared for a more slow run:-)

[arjiwan]

*snip*

Should be better... At first, I thought, really? Do Pugs in Cannith still fail Shroud? Then I read the rest of the rant.

First of all, I do understand where are you coming from. After a lot of Shroud completions, you will get tired and bored of it. You will want to get out of the Shroud as soon as possible. I also get annoyed when people are waiting too long to loot, or when they don't want to run water on part 3.

But the thing here is, you can't rant that people should play the same intensity and speed that you vets / experts have learned and mastered. There is a big chance that Pugs are casual players, noobs or simply has no clue.

Fire resists from a cleric is way better than the potions of 20. The 10 point difference will really matter on PUGS.

Your other points, I agree, such as not completing, puzzles. I just can't agree on the completion time for Pug zerging.

Cheers.

[nerdychaz]

Do it your way when you have the star next to your name.

Otherwise... When I have the star in my guild runs that PUG out the extra spots:

We may be teaching a guildie or four, sorry for taking too long explaining things to the new players who don't have a clue, but it is not for you.

You may not like to go in with full buffs, but we do. We prefer to take every advantage we can. Not all of us have the gear, pots, etc.

We are a social crew and that is why we play the game. If our socializing while we regen manna is too much to bear for you, ignore us and wait.

The DDOOR is not for you, it is for our slow guildies. DON'T TOUCH MY ALTAR

Lastly, if you want to do it your way, set up your own group and add "Fast Run" to it. I have no problems joining fast runs and abide by their rules and expectations. If you see "Be Chill" in the LFM, abide by my rules and be chill.

[Braegan]

Pug shrouds should be better on Cannith. I agree 100%.

Really it's the mini-breaks folks take between parts that slows it all down. I mean really do you take a break between each stage of Tangleroot or CO6? No. So push on lil soldier it'll be over soon.

[wolflordnexus]

After that mass camouflage nerf you better believe I am going to barkskin everyone. 90% of the time it's an improvement on your characters looks.

You know We all hate you right:P if you've ran with me you know Goldbug is hella sexy and your denying my greatness to the rest of the group is made of fail

[~jradnut]

1. Completion time. If shroud takes more than 30/35 minutes (in a bad dps group) something is wrong. People think that since shroud has 5 parts btwn each part it is like break time or socialize time.

Sometimes it is a social moment. Crack a joke, say Hi to people you may not have seen in a while. Honestly, I wont join a grp unless I have the time to spare for slow or funny or chatty or w/e. If I dont, then I do slayer or inventory maintenance.

Regardless, you state that you want to rush through and that's fine. But consider that this really is a social game and try not to get too cranky when other people treat it that way.

[wolflordnexus]

Sometimes it is a social moment. Crack a joke, say Hi to people you may not have seen in a while. Honestly, I wont join a grp unless I have the time to spare for slow or funny or chatty or w/e. If I dont, then I do slayer or inventory maintenance.

Regardless, you state that you want to rush through and that's fine. But consider that this really is a social game and try not to get too cranky when other people treat it that way.

I don't understand. Couldn't you be social while killing things and taking their stuff? crack a joke while your in auto attack mode that would be most of the raid. That's why I like parties with voice I can do stuff, AND we can socialize it's win win baby.

[seobanio]

I get that its a social game, but 30 minute completion times are pretty slow, plenty of time to be friendly and chat while still getting things done.

[Vyrn]

Hmmm wish I could change title. getting over the PSAs. Oh, well.

This is a rant thread. If you don't want to read a rant about annoying things people do in shroud, then you should move on.

I recently decided to level some people to get a few more shroud farmers. This has had the unfortunate consequence that I have been pugging a lot of shrouds and things have not been great. So I decided to make a thread about what things could be done better.

In general Cannith is a great server and has fun people to group with. But I know some of my complaints will be interpreted as me having no desire to help my fellow cannithite, and that I am being mean, or selfish because I don't need to not complete but other people do. I don't think that is the case. I'm more than willing to help out the people around me, I just expect respect for my time in return. I've noticed that a lot of people seem to think mutual respect means mutual abillity to waste everyones time. I do not agree. I think my complaints really address lack of respect for the group on other peoples part, not my own.


A laundry list of complaints:

1. Completion time. If shroud takes more than 30/35 minutes (in a bad dps group) something is wrong. People think that since shroud has 5 parts btwn each part it is like break time or socialize time. I feel like I am dragging groups through shroud because everyone wants to spend five minutes between each part. All my other complaints really go back to this main one, hurry up people.

2. Buffs. Bring your own. No one should be passing poison, or fire resist, or sonic or whatever. Don't tell me that your inventory is full, clean it out. My melees reserve a page of inventory for pots, so can yours. The only buffs worth throwing are FOM, mass death ward, rage, and haste. MAYBE GH, maybe, and that is only to ungeared toons who might have problems hitting. I know people run out of things, or roll new toons and forget to get some things. Its okay not to always have everything, but realizing that you should try for everything is good.

2.5 Barkskin. Barkskin is not a useful spell in shroud (or anywhere really, but thats a rant thread for another day.) It does however make everyone's toon ugly. Even if someone is one of the very few that has high enough AC to matter, who cares? They'll get mass healed whether they need it or no.

3. Going through the portal. Really, this one should be called not going through the portal. Before part 1: rage/haste go. Before part 2: deathward rage haste go. Before part 3 DO NOT SHRINE (why would you shrine for puzzles?) maybe a haste and go. (no everyone does not need jump.) Before part 4 drink a poison pot, a fire resist pot, maybe get fom, go. Part 5: drink a poison pot, a fire resist pot, maybe get fom, KILL ALL 5. The only time you don't kill all 5 is when you have like a multiclassed noncapped cleric and a poor dps group.

4 Puzzles. I don't care if you don't know how to solve the puzzles, just use solver. Yes, even if it is a 5x5. Doing a little research on how to do the most run raid in the game is a good thing. If your computer can't handle shroud and puzzle, you need to learn how to do it by hand.

5. Not completing. If you don't want to complete, recall out when harry at 5% (unless you are sole healer) or /death when he dies. DO NOT CAST A DD. People might accidentally take it and be screwed out of chest.

6. Not Completing, part Two. Just Complete! I get that on your new toon it is really hard to get the ingredients for your first greensteel. But it is a better use of your time to complete, always get a large, and do other things to improve your character (such as lvl'ing up in crafting) than to not complete shroud. You could also spend the time leveling another shroud farmer. Roll a cleric or fvs, you won't need much gear to do shroud and you will always be welcome.

6. Shroud "Experts." Just because you have completed shroud 10 times does not mean you know everything there is to know, and should give a play by play over mic when the party leader has everything firmly in hand. When you are doing this just know that the people in the group not saying anything that have done it more than a hundred times are just rolling their eyes at you. Just stop talking and do your job, we will all get loot, things can be happy, etc.

/rant over

Nope. Im just going to ignore your logically thought out answer, snarfle at how Ive ran shroud 10 times so far so I know what Im doing, then promptly DD and start ranting when someone hits the altar in that time.

Thats literally the attitude of most puggers btw :/. On a more serious note, ungeared PuGs dont add amazingly well to the DPS anyway. If you cant survive through the battle like everyone else, you have a free Pike Pass, use it and no one will know . The DPS who dont get 1-shot are doing all the meaningful DPS anyhow.

[nerdychaz]

A random friday night on cannith. It was a dark and stormy night. I worried about my surge protector and it's country of origin being relative to it's effectiveness. In one of my guild shrouds we PUGged out a few spots left over. Just before part 4....

Who needs FOM?

I do! I do!

Who needs FR?

Me! Me!

Who needs... Wait, who opened the portal? Wait? Who is in there? What are you doing?

YOU ONLY NEED FR, COME IN!!

Why is your hp and sp draining? Are you fighting? Are you soloing Harry?

YES, I COULD, BUT IT WOULD BE A STALEMATE, COME IN, ONLY NEED FR!

Why would you do that? We tend to make sure that the clerics have full SP before (cut off)

COME IN NAOWWW!! JUST DRINK A POT!1!!!!!

How rude, well, we better go in if it is just going to be a stale mate.

I FOUR MANNED THIS!!!!@!@!@!!!!

Gah, just add to friends list with a happy little note

True story