remove individual death and kill counts

[jwdaniels]

Knowing which of your party members is contributing allows you to group with people who play rather than loaf. Social loafing is just joining a group because you know they will do the work for you.

On the flip side: If you can get 5 time as many kills as the rest of the party, I will invite you to group with me again. If you get killed 4 times and cannot kill 2 mobs, well you need someone to help you review your build. Keeping it all secret is bad. More info is good.


Things I would like to see added to the XP report:
Total damage dealt
Total damage received
Total HP Healed
Totas SP used

So a duo of a pot-chugging, over-healing, inefficient Favored Soul Healbot and a crazed barbarian zerger would be your ideal people to group with?

[Bodic]

If they would parse DPS/HP that would be grand
As in healing done/taken not to exceed actual full HP value.
DPS well I seriously want real numbers not just statical equations.

It would hamper the elitest epeen I am sure as well as enlarge it.

to the death count that is fine the way it is you died your fault or not you died take the shame.

Kill count Caster A knocks 10 mobs to 95% health Barb A cleaves, and get cred for 10 kills. this happens and well some suffer for it as some only count the KC and dotn care about CC or anything else.

[Ugumagre]

What I would really like is a personal kill count, where you can see how many kriters you have killed.
Just like the comand /death count for knowing how much times you died, a /kill count would be nice.

[phillymiket]

I don't see the point of individual kill counts myself but they are here and also don't see the point of removing them.

Sometimes I check, like if there is too much trash spawn in part one of the shroud. I may look and see that, ahh yes, the healer has more kills then the arcane and take a note that that caster doesn't know what they are doing and make sure to explain real, real good the concept of crystals and what to do with them in part two.

Sometimes the kill count has a negative effect of causing a "kill contest" which leads people to not only run ahead to their death but to take out weak mobs first when they should hop on the big bad meanie-pants because a kill is a kill.

/indifferent

[Truga]

So a duo of a pot-chugging, over-healing, inefficient Favored Soul Healbot and a crazed barbarian zerger would be your ideal people to group with?

Hey, if they spend their own pots on it, why not?

Fake edit: I don't care much about the kill count, but never, ever, take my barrel count away.

[Chai]

Make the combat log configurable to display the stuff you want to see and not display the stuff you dont want to see.

Then also make it so the combat log can be exported as a text file.

No need for the game to keep track of anything and display it. If the "elitists" want to poke fun of someone elses apparent lack of contribution, they would have to put some effort into obtaining their information. Those who want the information so they can research build decisions and such, it would be there for them. Its generally these individuals who dont mind putting in that effort to obtain and utilize the information anyhow.

/thread.

[Setin_Myways]

oh, if you could add in sp pots chugged. I think that would be helpful for people to see how expensive they were to the casters :}

[steelblueskies]

yaga, since you have the experience. is it possible to stack death penalties so high that you are helpless on accepting a res? really always wondered.

[Yaga_Nub]

yaga, since you have the experience. is it possible to stack death penalties so high that you are helpless on accepting a res? really always wondered.

All I can say for certain is that I have never been unable to accept a rez. My I'm always researching more about deaths in DDO so I'll add this to the list of unanswered questions.

[Talon_Moonshadow]

I understand why you think they should be removed...

But personally, I like them.
I like to be able to see how my kills compared to others'. Not always, but I like to have it available.

And I like to get all warm and fuzzy when I see that everyone else has died, and I didn't.

But it does concern me that so many people simply use them to see who they think is not contributing as much as they think they should.

[mournbladereigns]

Knowing which of your party members is contributing allows you to group with people who play rather than loaf. Social loafing is just joining a group because you know they will do the work for you.

On the flip side: If you can get 5 time as many kills as the rest of the party, I will invite you to group with me again. If you get killed 4 times and cannot kill 2 mobs, well you need someone to help you review your build. Keeping it all secret is bad. More info is good.


Things I would like to see added to the XP report:
Total damage dealt
Total damage received
Total HP Healed
Totas SP used

how about total characters typed/cps
or better yet, total time talking. So we know who to tell to **** I'm trying play the game.

total spells cast
total pots drank/ what kinds

total keystrokes! w/a/s/d s!

eww he's using a game pad!

cpu speed/connection speed,
all kinds of cool stuff!

/signed

[kernal42]

This is inaccurate though, on my melee I will be right up there kicking butt, on my cleric I will be at the back healing mainly and unlikely to kill many mobs. My arcane caster is an enchantment build, I use hold person / monster, charm, hypnotise etc. My CC enables the melee to kill mobs very quickly but the kills are attributed to the melee not me. The only time I get many kills are mhen I put up firewalls for undead or trolls etc, or put up storm cloud against groups of fire mephits.I sometimes chuck up PK, circle of death, necrotic ray or prismatic ray. But being cc focused my kill count really underestimates the contribution I made to the success of the quest.

Nobody is suggesting that kill count is a perfect or even good indicator of contribution.

And if people don't understand that, I probably won't group with them again, either.


-Kernal

[DoctorWhofan]

/disagree.

I think it should list how many points of healing were dished out by whom.

[Lyzern]

Knowing which of your party members is contributing allows you to group with people who play rather than loaf. Social loafing is just joining a group because you know they will do the work for you.

On the flip side: If you can get 5 time as many kills as the rest of the party, I will invite you to group with me again. If you get killed 4 times and cannot kill 2 mobs, well you need someone to help you review your build. Keeping it all secret is bad. More info is good.


Things I would like to see added to the XP report:
Total damage dealt
Total damage received
Total HP Healed
Totas SP used

+1, not much for the growth of my e-peen, mainly for self-information AND proof that a Bard can be a healer. I would also like to point (In my contradiction) that these things don't always define a good/bad player and even if they do, it's just part of the learning process for a newbie and I don't think people should judge unless they just stand afk in a dungeon.

[Uska]

individual kill counts yes take out death counts I think need to be left in

[Robai]

Every experienced player knows that kill count doesn't represent your contribution to the party at all.

We have interesting things:
- some healers use damaging spells instead of healing
- some casters waste their spell points on the mobs which are almost killed by melee anyway (in order to steal kills) and later they can't rebuff you with Haste, GH, Res, Blur or Displacement, etc.
- some melee risk to die to get that kill count at all costs (and if they die then blame healers for not healing in time)
- some players rush to kill that weak Kobold first instead of Kobold Shaman to keep as high kill count as possible
- etc.


Despite that I still sometimes look at kill count (that depends on the quest) to see how good or bad I was (for example melee dps vs other similar melee dps, but not caster or healer).

Damage done (excluding over damage) would be much better measure of your dps than kill count (this way kill steals would be pointless).

Other interesting stats:
Damage taken
Damage avoided by saves (or evasion)
How much you were healed
How much you healed others (excluding over heals)
How many monsters and how long time you fascinated/hold/paralyzed/etc
How many members you buffed (it's very hard to measure this, for example casting haste or displacement at the entrance while waiting for others are pointless buffs)

Of course, knowing those stats still won't tell your actual contribution to the party.

[Vilhelm_der_Toller]

What I would really like is a personal kill count, where you can see how many kriters you have killed.
Just like the comand /death count for knowing how much times you died, a /kill count would be nice.

I thought that this was already in place.

/kill counton
/kill countoff
/death counton
/death countoff

[Talon_Moonshadow]

/disagree.

I think it should list how many points of healing were dished out by whom.

Sadly, about 90% of non-cleric players would receive zero HP of healing from themselves.... (and at least half of the clerics in the Harbor.)

[justagame]

I think we can all agree that kill count doesn't tell the whole story, but I don't see how the alternative suggestions do any better.

Take total points healed. The assumption here is that this is the healers' contribution. So, a cleric or FVS who greater commanded half the mobs allowing them to be killed without taking damage, would get nothing. A divine who buffed and reduced / eliminated much of the incoming damage, and thus helaed less would look worse than one who did not.

In both cases, someone who piked behind the group and simply healed after the fact, would show up on the "scoreboard", and someone who properly used CC and buffs would not. Yet, by measuring 3, 4, 5 metrics instead of just 1, we would kid ourselves into thinking that we had a better measure of contribution. But we wouldn't. We would just have the illusion of better scoreboard. In the above example, the better cleric, the one who was helping the party avoiding damage, could instead stop using CC, stop buffing, and simply heal the now greater damage the party was taking, and thump his chest proclaiming that he made a better contribution.

The better answer, IMO, is to stop pretending that kill count is an epeen scoreboard. It's mostly an artifact of total kills needing to be tracked against quest objectives (e.g., conquest) -- why not then break it out. Why does it have to be more than that? You want to tell who is contributing and who is not? Simply pay attention, it's usually pretty easy. If you want a truly accurate dps, comparison, there are tools for that -- don't ask Turbine to do it in quest -- because there's no way you're going to be able to control for situational variables. Like the monk or barbarian getting more damage in becuase they ran way ahead all the time, and got to many mobs first. Or the melee toon who had puzzle responsibility while the others were killing.

Any scoreboard that tries to capture everything is going to miss a ton of important stuff. But trying, and building an more expansive but incomplete one, will only give false fuel to those who want to point to something, thump their chest, and proclaim "I'm better."

[Lifeblood]

I can't agree with this.

I need to have visual proof that I died the most in each quest or raid. In fact, I wish they would bold, or highlight is some other way, the person who dies the most. My name always looks better in bold type.

An angel gets his or her halo each time I die.

Reminds me of when they used to server announce when you failed/completed the Reaver Raid

Ahh the good old days