PSA Haste does not waste a valuable spell slot

[NaturalHazard]

I guess im lucky my melees have some form of haste for themselves, my bard casts his own, and its extended, and my ranger has epic time sensing googles, only last 1.30 minutes and 5 clickies, I have everything I need to make another pair....... if we are going to get so many people not casting it, I guess I will craft it.

[BangsLiekWhoa]

It's an RPG. It's all about personal customization.


When (if) you guys played PnP, did you tell the other players how they had to build their characters also?...

When I play PnP I try to make decisions that help the party as a whole not just myself since if they all end up dead I am likely to follow.

...Sorry guys, you will never be able to control other players no matter how loud the forum threats of 'blacklists' become.

Well...nobody ever said they can completely control how people play...but they can control if that person gets in their groups or not, which does somewhat control how/what they get to play with groups...

40 page plaid here we come!

[grodon9999]

Page 39! We can do it!

[Truga]

I ran a shroud yesterday on my FvS. Since I did what I do every time and just accepted the first 12 people, we ended up with no arcane or bard. Apart from some... difficulties in part 3*, it was a smooth and fun run, and by no means slow. That is all.

* The two dudes in north 5x5 "couldn't" solve it, and we had noone to open locks, so we had to shatter crystals in the end. Doesn't matter much, since mediums are plentiful anyway.

[KillEveryone]

Well...nobody ever said they can completely control how people play...but they can control if that person gets in their groups or not, which does somewhat control how/what they get to play with groups...

Pffffff...who cares.

I'll be zerging quests while the ones that expect me to haste them are still interviewing potential haste clickies.

[BangsLiekWhoa]

Pffffff...who cares.

I'll be zerging quests while the ones that expect me to haste them are still interviewing potential haste clickies.

I was just saying that it does control them in a way... since they will not be grouping with certain groups.

[KillEveryone]

I was just saying that it does control them in a way... since they will not be grouping with certain groups.

Really, though, someone that doesn't carry haste isn't going to care.

They know what their character can do. They know they will contribute to the party and most likely the rest of the party will end up piking in the casters dust.

They know that when they find a party that doesn't care if haste is not loaded, that party is full of good players that are prepared for the quest, otherwise it is easier to zerg solo a quest instead of draging along a bunch of people moaning for haste.

[grodon9999]

We have bard hirelings, *** do we need casters for?

[stille_nacht]

now moving on to a rational argument-
I have two premise:
A- Helping a party you are in to the farthest reasonable extent is expected of everyone who joins a party. it is implicit when people group that the function of the group is do to a quest more efficiently and safely (and also perhaps to socialize, but that is irrelavant). Otherwise there would be no point in the group
B- Making a more effective character is a widespread goal that many many players aspire to within reasonable limits. if you purposely want to use an noneffective build, well, slotting haste is not really an issue of contention, but this is a small fraction of players.

so. Does haste cause an unreasonable sacrifice to a build or playstyle? no. there are precisely 4 good dps spells 3rd level for a given savant (i assume displace is slotted in the 5th spot), and using even 3 in a spell cycle would lower dps. Hasting the party every now and then represents an insignificant amount of sp usage. Haste is a nonexistant sacrifice.

does haste cause an unreasonable sacrifice in terms of grinding? no. haste is easily acquired

is haste a benefit to the party? yes. a 15% increase to melee and/or ranged damage is significant. many fighters would kill for a claw set, which represents less than 15% of almost any melee's dps. a 32% increase in run speed is an added benefit for the whole party.

does haste make for a more effective character? yes. explained above.

in conclusion: assuming characters are like those of the vast majority of ddo players (desiring to help the party/build a more effective character, but not making unreasonable sacrifices), there is no reason not to take haste, but good reasons to take haste. Therefore, sorcs should take haste.

what to do with players who choose not to take haste is a matter of entirely different contentions, as is whether or not telling players that haste is a good idea is right or wrong. these can be moved to a different thread.

Note- there are certain very specific instances where you might want non-dps 3rd level spells (halt undead, waterbreathing) might be wanted. All i can say about these is that sorcs are not made to be able to adjust to very specific quests quickly, and it is debatable if spells like those should be slotted 4 days at a time, considering that halt may be scrolled for the mindless undead in the only truly challenging undead quest, tomb of the wiz king, and waterbreathing is barely ever necessary, i feel safe in disregarding these spells, there are other nifty spells, but they all have better versions.)
(page 37, almost plaid!)

this.

also to the whole "rushing" post, replace "haste" with "any high dps spell" why do you need it? so you can rush through quests? stop getting high dps spells!
invalid logic.

i didnt say i need to completly control them, i said the decision (for reasons expounded above) is totally inane. it doesnt contribute to the playstyle (nuking), and it effectively detriments the party.

[Kovalas]

We have bard hirelings, *** do we need casters for?

None of these No Haste Casters are on Ghallanda anyways dude...

[grodon9999]

None of these No Haste Casters are on Ghallanda anyways dude...

The OP is from my Guild . . . yes, these no-haste casters WERE from our server

If I could use hirelings in raids I would.

[BangsLiekWhoa]

Really, though, someone that doesn't carry haste isn't going to care.

They know what their character can do. They know they will contribute to the party and most likely the rest of the party will end up piking in the casters dust.

They know that when they find a party that doesn't care if haste is not loaded, that party is full of good players that are prepared for the quest, otherwise it is easier to zerg solo a quest instead of draging along a bunch of people moaning for haste.

Actually, most casters that don't know how valuable haste is to DPS won't be able to solo heyton's rest at 20... It generates WAY more DPS per SP than any other spell. If people want to stick their head in the sand and say it doesn't, that still won't change the facts. My arcanes carry it because: 1- I like to help the TEAM, 2- it helps me.

Crazy thing about haste: I can give it to the party to help them do more DPS and have faster run speed... and I am STILL able to do plenty of killing and can solo stuff just fine without needing some other level 3 spell to replace haste...

EDIT: Oh good, someone willing to neg rep me but not admit it. Glad to see that. Heh.

[Kovalas]

The OP is from my Guild . . . yes, these no-haste casters WERE from our server

If I could use hirelings in raids I would.

Doooooooooooooooooooooooooooom!!

Page 40 yet!?!

[Aashrym]

None of these No Haste Casters are on Ghallanda anyways dude...

Yes, they were. D'oh

[azrael4h]

The only people who don't carry haste generally are not coming here. They are newbies and noobs, just the same as all the melee players in here who are are crying that wizards and sorcerers don't like being abused and considered a hireling; being threatened for doing anything other than buffing said melee players.

It is sheer jealous rage that a Sorcerer or Wizard is now a viable dps class. It is anger that a Favored Soul or Cleric can melee alongside the best Barbarian and still keep a raid group standing. If the arcane does anything but buff and mass hold, if the divine does anything but heal, they are subjected to abuse, threats of blacklist, cursing and insults. It is a desire to control and dominate others, in an environment safe from repercussion.

Why? I don't care why you are like that.. Abuse me on my Sorcerer and I'll dispel the buffs that melees require to survive. Abuse me on my Favored Soul and I'll refuse to heal you. My Paladin will seek to grab too much aggro and get you killed, and my Ranger will kite just to annoy you, even though I'm a Tempest. Abuse others while I'm watching, and I'll do the same. And my blacklist is as public as my characters' names; I list it in every bio on every character.

I've never had any trouble getting into groups, as one run and they know I'm good. The nearly unending /tells I get asking me to come to this raid or that raid or into vale quests for GS mats, or whatever it is proves this. Melees? A dime a dozen, I can pick and choose from players who are good to play with, and those who think they're good; the abusive ones, or the ones I'd actually be glad to run with.

You can cry all you want, you can neg rep me all you want, since you like doing that to anyone who doesn't stand for the abuse. You can lie all you want and try to twist this into what you want. Good players will read the real words, and know you for what you are.

[Missing_Minds]

We have bard hirelings, *** do we need casters for?

You want to hit page 40 don't you?

[grodon9999]

You want to hit page 40 don't you?

Of course, but in no way would I needlessly BUMP a thread just so it can hit the glorious mark of 40 pages . . .

[grodon9999]

This weekend in my TRing pugs i ran with both some casters who didn't haste and some Divines who didn't heal . . .

I decided heck, I'm not gonna "meatshield" and didn't interdict any mobs coming their way.

Oh . . . the DINGS were glorious . . .

[BangsLiekWhoa]

I can't believe we haven't hit 40 pages yet. This thread really is starting to lose steam...

/HASTE

That should speed things back up!

[Postumus]

The OP is from my Guild . . . yes, these no-haste casters WERE from our server

If I could use hirelings in raids I would.

Pretty sure you can still use pots in a raid though...