PSA Haste does not waste a valuable spell slot

[KillEveryone]

We don't need to bring useless casters who won't cast haste.

We don't need to bring the useless melees.

They can't cast haste anyway.

[Missing_Minds]

rush through the next quest to rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

and then what?

Where are you going in such a hurry? What do you do when you get there?

tsk. tsk. tsk.

You forgot to queue the Benny Hill music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P_5a4itxB8

[R0cksteady]

A caster without haste is a fighter sword and boarding with a dagger.

As someone with a Wizzy and a sorc, I can say I'd never run without haste. I don't have extend anymore, but I just cast more haste. Because as much damage as you think you're doing, you're adding more DPS to the party keeping the Melee hasted than you are with the few spell points it costs to cast haste and the weak spell you'll replace it with.

[Aashrym]

tsk. tsk. tsk.

You forgot to queue the Benny Hill music.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=2P_5a4itxB8

I was expecting a link to an Alabama song.

[Missing_Minds]

I was expecting a link to an Alabama song.

Well I figured that you could always paraphrase the beginning to be "Bringing Hastey back."

[furbyoats]

They can and should. But SP still lasts longer and doesn't hamper the melee's damage with chugging pots or hitting clickies. More actions are required. Conversely, casting haste and/or rage increases the sorc's damage output simultaneously with less interruption by additional actions.

bingo

[furbyoats]

If you have your own pots, what does it matter?

And if you think casters without haste are "useless", well....

...they are

[R0cksteady]

Stopping melee on every melee toon every 30 seconds to pop a haste pot is stupid when a caster can easily throw a 2 minute one every 2 minutes for the entire party.

I've yet to run with a caster without haste, but next time I'm on my fighter or Barb and I have a caster like that, I would definitely go out of my way to follow the caster around, not attack anything, and tell the caster to do the damage until I get a haste.

[zwiebelring]

Is this still alive?

People, there are just a few options:
Either you play your toon the way you want without adapting to group and face consequences which may end in dismissal in melee heavy parties...

...or you adapt and are willing to take certain roles as your classes allow.

Further on, regular Haste clickies and pots are no valid option for high level. 30 seconds is just not long enough. If you do not have access to Shroudcrafting you cannot rely on this. But more important is, pots are insanely expensive.

Finally, you enter a group of people. Act accordingly. If the leader didn't ask you for Haste but you do it in advance shows more skills and brain than just click easy button nuke spell. Communicate with people. That is all. Yes, that may end in dismissal but since here are people who claim to play the way they want to even in groups they have to accept this attitude by others as well.

It doesn't matter if you can contribute without that spell, the fact is, you do not have it in case it is demanded.

[Fenrisulven6]

Stopping melee on every melee toon every 30 seconds to pop a haste pot is stupid when a caster can easily throw a 2 minute one every 2 minutes for the entire party.

Oh please. If its taking you more than 30 secs between encounters, you're doing something wrong. I've run with zergers who down haste pots continuously without missing a swing.

I've yet to run with a caster without haste, but next time I'm on my fighter or Barb and I have a caster like that, I would definitely go out of my way to follow the caster around, not attack anything, and tell the caster to do the damage until I get a haste.

Be careful what you ask for. These days, you need them more than they need you.

[Oracle_Gil]

I was recently trying to make a first pure melee character and so reading this just made me curious.

Although i do carry haste a lot on my sorcerer and use it a lot(i dont care about its bonus and all I just like to give speed to myself and group to make quests and combats quicker), I was wondering if same fuss is made about melee abilities.

For e.g. if I take barbarian ability of sprint boost instead of damage boost. I am frankly curious how much these kind of questions are asked to melee, or are things more lenient to them?
Because giving sprint boosts to hasted barbarian looked really fun and fast, but i wonder if it can ever contribute to team...

And if they are lenient, does that mean that casters are so important to group that they are screened more than melee? Like should be few but should be best?
And if same questions are asked, arent we restricting the builds too much(ah that sprint boost was so fast I dont want to miss it)?

[azrael4h]

Oh please. If its taking you more than 30 secs between encounters, you're doing something wrong. I've run with zergers who down haste pots continuously without missing a swing.

If you're stopping melee to do anything while there's a mbo around, you've done something wrong. I drink haste as I'm charging, don't need it between encounters.

Be careful what you ask for. These days, you need them more than they need you.

Indeed. I know I'll join a caster-heavy raid 99% of the time vs a melee heavy one now on my FvS.

If your melee requires 2-4 mins of haste to function, then you need to reroll. You are GIMP. The only time haste is really needed is boss fights; trash are steamrolled if there's a competent melee group about, with or without. A melee who requires haste is a melee who requires a dedicated nanny bot following them around keeping them alive. Which means they are a waste of a party slot, and can't be a good raid leader.

And this is from someone who went human on his sorc so he could keep extend and has haste, rage, and displacement in his level 3 slots. It isn't needed. It is wanted.

[Burradin]

I am notorious for not hasting on my PM. If I remember, I will cast it for boss fight. As a PM, I am expected to CC and Nuke and keep myself healed. So hasting you every so often is not on my priority list. I also did not have blur mem'd for a few days, I wear the Wretched twilight, I was blurred permanently. Chances are my sorc will not haste you either, but I do carry it.

Just expecting another player to do something because you think it is the way it should be is a failure on your part, not theirs. As some have said, different play styles or agendas. I don't expect a cleric or FVS to always heal me, thou if I am on my Barb, they do I spend a lot of time in a corner hitting a lot of pots. But to expect it is to fail, be self sufficient for the win.

[Burradin]

It doesn't matter if you can contribute without that spell, the fact is, you do not have it in case it is demanded.

Go ahead and demand anything. Good way to guarantee I wouldn't give it. Ask nicely and I probably will/might, but demand and I am liable to find my greater dispel scrolls and take care of the rest of your buffs for you.

[Burradin]

Stopping melee on every melee toon every 30 seconds to pop a haste pot is stupid when a caster can easily throw a 2 minute one every 2 minutes for the entire party.

I've yet to run with a caster without haste, but next time I'm on my fighter or Barb and I have a caster like that, I would definitely go out of my way to follow the caster around, not attack anything, and tell the caster to do the damage until I get a haste.

Kewl, the caster can stand in the middle of a fight, and carry your stone around with them after you die. I find most healers will not heal you if you are not fighting. Should be interesting run for you.

[Burradin]

We don't need to bring the useless melees.

They can't cast haste anyway.

It is funny that the fastest Shrouds now are usually caster laden and you know, a haste may never be cast since spells have no need for a haste.

[Burradin]

hai again guys...you seem to miss the point...so let me spell it out for you

1) haste provides a 15% attack speed increase to all melee based attacks. this means things die faster...mmkay?

2) even if you do not have extend, a 2 minute haste is still extremely useful and rather cheap on the sp cost....if you doubt me, provide me with evidence of a spell that is cast for the same amount of sp as a non-extended haste vs. the dps increase of 4 melee toons (and im being very generous) with haste.

3) yes, you are sorcerer, you are mighty, but i will blacklist you in a heartbeat if you dont carry haste...the same way i won't bother with you if you dont carry recon

why? (pertaining to #3) if you join my party, you are expected to contribute to the overall success of the raid/quest. if i am looking for an arcane for vod, i want someone to be able to recon/backup in canse something goes wrong. lvl 6 spells are a bit more understandable for not carrying recon, i dont like it, but i can at least understand.

so...again, carry haste or get blacklisted yes, i am telling you how to play your toon (if you want to run in a raid)

as i said before, you may choose not to carry it, but i hope you enjoy soloing your raid gear grind.

Hmm, guess you better blacklist, I don't heal toasters. Definitely don't waste a high level spell on toasters.

The only fight that last long enough for a haste to make a difference is boss fights, otherwise you have weak melee in your group and that boss fight is going to be much more interesting.

[Vellrad]

By the way, a question about that 15% increase of attack speed.
Does it affects melee only, melee and ranged only (bow/xbow/throwers) or melee, ranged and wands?

[Pewf]

I am notorious for not hasting on my PM. If I remember, I will cast it for boss fight. As a PM, I am expected to CC and Nuke and keep myself healed. So hasting you every so often is not on my priority list. I also did not have blur mem'd for a few days, I wear the Wretched twilight, I was blurred permanently. Chances are my sorc will not haste you either, but I do carry it.

Just expecting another player to do something because you think it is the way it should be is a failure on your part, not theirs. As some have said, different play styles or agendas. I don't expect a cleric or FVS to always heal me, thou if I am on my Barb, they do I spend a lot of time in a corner hitting a lot of pots. But to expect it is to fail, be self sufficient for the win.

Thanks Burradin.

+1 - You share the same opinions I do on this matter by 100%.

[grodon9999]

38 pages of stupidity . . . can we hit 40? Heck yeah!