PSA Haste does not waste a valuable spell slot

[Kovalas]

Lol i'll remember that. "Sorry i have haste but only for soloing so quit asking me for haste"

You get asked to haste on Melee's? No wonder you have got to the point your at with the 'Haaaaaaaaste' me crowd :P

PS: what does blue rep mean!?

[thegreatneil]

Thought:

Scroll it.
Works on the group.
Doesn't take a slot better used for thing you have enhancements/feats for.
Melee will stop crying.

*Note: seems haste scrolls are cheaper than pots.


P.S. (yes SLa's have a diff cooldown, so acid blast on a earth sorc, because whats better than an acid blast? Two of em.)

[Astraghal]

Because rather than use haste clickies to help your party you would rather the whole quest go slower simply to try to force casters into carrying haste.

It's a fact that it's less efficient for me to keep the party hasted with clickies that it is for the arcane to cast it.

Why then, if it's more efficient for a caster to keep the group hasted with the spell, than it is for a melee to do so using clickies, would the caster not do so?

You have to answer that question first, because your question only arises once mine needs to be asked.

[phillymiket]

Thought:

Scroll it.
Works on the group.
Doesn't take a slot better used for thing you have enhancements/feats for.
Melee will stop crying.

*Note: seems haste scrolls are cheaper than pots.


P.S. (yes SLa's have a diff cooldown, so acid blast on a earth sorc, because whats better than an acid blast? Two of em.)

!Failed Action: You are too enraged, unskilled and generally stupid to perform this action.

Oh you meant on my sorc!

I just don't see the point when I can just carry the spell.

GH? There I'm with you. I don't begrudge a sorc who scrolls GH and only passes it out when requested and is reluctant to do so.
There is a lot competing with level 6 spells and scroll buffing all the melee every quest you run one or a few times between shrines gets expensive.
Level 3 spells? Not so much competition IMO.

Plus the scroll GH last long enough to get by with.
Scroll Hasting would seriously cut into a sorcs DPS. (just as much as using Haste pots cuts into a melee's DPS)

[eris2323]

Oh yeah, we had clickies (I really have to get off my butt and make the Chrono goggles).
It was just one of those things, no bard , no wiz, just 2 sorcs, neither of whom happened to have it.
Not a huge issue by any means.
Just something I found odd.

Shoulda brought a bard I guess... They like to haste and buff... sorcerors who are dps might not like to play by your rules.

I'd have asked where your potions were, you too good for potions?

[Chai]

What level 3 spell does more damage or kills mobs and portals more quickly than 6-9 melee swinging 15% faster?

There is no replacement for haste. None.

[Illiain]

What level 3 spell does more damage or kills mobs and portals more quickly than 6-9 melee swinging 15% faster?

There is no replacement for haste. None.

I got it.

They're secretly turning everything into knicknacks and selling them. Crafty devils...

[varusso]

snip

Your first two points are correct. With it spelled out, there is no excuse for you NOT bring what is expected to the party. Past that, you are still expected to bring certain things to the party, even if it isnt spelled out. If you join a group as the only representative of that class, then you know what those things are (unless you are new, in which case it is our job to help you learn -- nicely of course).

If you are the only fvs/cleric in a group, and it doesnt say BYOH, you KNOW you are expected to heal. If you are a bard and there are no cleric/fvs, you may be asked to heal.
If you are the only player in the group with rogue levels, you KNOW you are here for the traps.
If you are an arcane, you KNOW you are expected to cast rage/haste.
Etc.
If there are multiple toons in a party capable of performing a given role (based on class abilities) then you work out who is doing what.

If you join a party expecting NOT to fulfill your expected role, then you need to be up-front and honest about it, so they can either save a spot or replace you. No one is telling you how to play your toon. They are telling you what they need while you are in their group. You are free to either provide what is needed as part of the TEAM or to leave and go form your own group/solo with your chosen playstyle.

I personally like to run around with a big honking sword and smack stuff, saving my spell points for my death auras and CCs. I keep the party rage/hasted and only nuke large groups that the melees arent already tearing through like tissue paper, FOD for those frigging light-casting bastards. I only ever had ONE person complain that i wasnt lobbing firewalls every second step, and he was promptly told to stuff it by half the group before I even responded. Moral of the story: rage/haste, always

[zwiebelring]

Because of egomainiac Sorc.s I crafted myself a haste clicky. As a Sorcerer I'd take one as well to give haste for critical situations.

If you are pugging a lot and want to contribute to a maximum then take haste. Otherwise replace the used spellslot and slap a raidleader for not having a Bard as the hagebot .

It seems too many people are not willign to adapt to their current group setup even if they have the right bases to do so. You have the opportunity to take swap spells so do it, don't tell me, high lvl. raids won't make up enough with money gained vs. money spent on your Haggletoon.

@varusso
exactly.

[varusso]

We dont actually need Haste personally, so I can understand if that is their reason.
Any way, levels 1-3 are all buffs for me.


Hello. I see you are new to the game. Please, meet Fire Shield, Protection from Elements, and our old friend Stone Skin.

Protection vs energy is ****. It gets beaten off of you too quickly. It is too SP-intensive to be truly effective. It is only useful as an augmentation to resist.
The majority of REAL damage comes from spells and special attacks. And most of THAT comes from elemental-based attacks. SS is useless for that. Whats more, it is also beaten off of you quickly. I seldom even bother with it anymore past low lvls.
Fireshield/Coldshield is actually a good spell. It reduces fire/cold damage AND has a damage guard component. However it is low-duration and takes up a valuable lvl 4 slot, which is already crammed (especially for PMs/sorcs). Maintaining it is very SP-intensive. It is also self-cast only.

Resist energy on the other hand -- plenty of room on your bar; only a few useful lvl 2 spells. It has the full duration timer, so you dont need to recast it ever couple of minutes. It doesnt get beaten off of you (dispels dont count) so yo uget the full effect until it expires normally. It reduces EVERY attack of the appropriate elemental-type. It is actually 5 spells, one for each element. Add up all of the damage blocked of every elemental type in a given quest, and it FAR outstrips any other damage-mitigating spell, especially if you factor in SP cost and spell slots (5 spells for one slot).

I can (and very often DO) run without the other spells. I would never consider running without resist energy -- once I leave my abashai set behind that is

[licho]

Why then, if it's more efficient for a caster to keep the group hasted with the spell, than it is for a melee to do so using clickies, would the caster not do so?

You have to answer that question first, because your question only arises once mine needs to be asked.

True, final and only answear:

If Sorcerer spend its time & SP for Buffing melees its less time&SP for killing stuff, and rising my killcount.

If melee have to spend time for self buffing its good since they are behind in killcount olympics.
The fact that hastle pots and clickies have shorter timer works great here.

Since offensive sorcerer want to kill mobs by himself there is no use of making melee more competive in killcount olympics.

You cant say that game is not about killcount olympics, since its my gameplay and im happy with it.

/sarcasm off ;-)

BTW Savants from lv 18+ have 5 lv3 slots.

[varusso]

1. my blue bar is for me to pew pew with, not to increase your kill count
2. they sell haste potions at the vendor so if its that important to you there is no excuse not to have it
3. there are tons of haste clickies in the game that let you buff the whole party, in fact it is more efficient for a melee to be the haster because you are acutely aware of when haste wears out and have a better chance of catching all the hitters together

3.a. a t2 greensteel has 3 charges at level 16 which is about 90 seconds a pop
http://www.iro.umontreal.ca/~delalle...lectric_abs_10

the morning star is the cheapest blank using no horn and only 1 funk

make 2 of those and that is 9 minutes of haste per shrine, no arcane needed

4. all my 6 mans are byoh which also stands for "bring your own haste"

(1) Dont join a group. Group play expects group players. Even in 'self-sufficient zerg' groups, arcane is still expected to caste rage/haste. The whole point of those is to complete faster/more efficiently. Rage/haste contributes significantly to that goal.
(2) SP is free, the spells last longer, and they dont fail to trigger when you are moving like pots often do. Spells also do not takeup inventory space. Casters have plenty of room in the lvl 3 spell slots.
(3) Most haste clickies last 30 seconds. Thats **** and you know it. Cast your SPELL haste/rage at choke points, such as doors or when the group is clumped up fighting a group. No need to even tell everyone constantly to huddle up. There are plenty of places in every dungeon where the group will pause naturally. Use them. On occasion, you may need to call for a huddle. If they dont want to group up, they dont get it; drink pots. Use the buffs on YOU as the timer. If they want it, they need to do their part and hug the caster on occasion.
(4) Your group, your rules. Groups work better and finish faster though, when the arcane pulls his head out . See point #1.

[varusso]

It always helps to be more specific in LFMs. If you need a Haste bot put it in your LFM. At least then the casters who actually read the LFMs will know what they're getting into. (people ACTUALLY reading LFMs is a diff. subject..) People have diff builds.. and people assuming every caster is going to have the build they want or expect is the root of this issue.. not that people have diff builds. Simply being specific of what sort of build you want in your LFM would help alleviate any problems you have with people not having the cookie cutter build you expect.

I personally would take haste.. but i'm not gonna be an arse if i invite someone and they don't have it unless i specify in my LFM thats what i need.

(On a side note.. some people irk me with haste.. begging for it every time it wears.. as if my whole existence is to walk around hasting them.. this is why some people don't take haste.. cause they don't wanna walk around spamming haste all day. I don't mind giving out buffs.. but don't demand it every 2 mins.. carry some pots or a clicky rather than shouting in party chat. HASTE. HASTE PLZ. HASTE. HASTE. Because you know I might actually be busy doing something OTHER than being your personal haste bot)

There isnt enough room in the LFM for all of the qualifiers we would need to put into the notes, if we had to 'pre-educate' every person clicking the LFM -- even assuming they read it. The notes are really for highlighting what is DIFFERENT about that group from others. BYOH, zerg/no-zerg, TR speed runs, know the quest, need a guide, all-orc, need a WF tank. Stuff like that. If yo uhave to predefine every single role for every single player/class that joins -- no, everyone needs to be aware of their expected role, and if they CHOOSE toplay something outside the norm, thats fine. But its up to THEM to tell the party. You shouldnt have to interrogate or pre-qualify every person who joins your group.

[grodon9999]

Nope, no one is really defending the practice, it actually started as an attempt to inform new sorc players that the melee like it, but wasn't done very politely. It has since then devolved into a shouting match of who can be more inconsiderate, with the melee's winning overwhelmingly by turning on their aura of entitlement.

The OP's main is a caster BTW . . .

It's not an "aura of entitlement," there are just certain best practices that are expected of people. Divines are expected to heal and caster certain buffs (Deathward, it's shocking how often people need to be reminded about this), melees are expected to have enough survivability and damage output to do what they need to do, and casters are also expected to provide certain buffs. Haste is a given. As other posters pointed out there is no 3rd level spell that provides more DPS than giving the melees 15% more swing speed, especially in a raid group.

[EddieB_TBC]

This really isn't so difficult. If arcanes not having haste in a shroud party is an issue for people forming shroud parties then they should ask before they open the instance. No haste, buh bye. If you join a shroud party formed by an arcane and you really feel you need haste to have fun then you should ask. No haste, buh bye.

Personal opinion only, if you build your toons w/o perhaps the most group friendly spell there is because you find it less useful when soloing... go solo something.

[varusso]

If you have a specific need then you should post that in the LFM. If your specific need need can be met by buying pots then you should definitely post it in the LFM. "Caster needed" should not be interpreted by everyone as "Haste-bot" needed; it should and likely will be interpreted to mean the party is looking for a wizard or a sorcerer, primarily for offensive support.

The assumptions of the person posting the LFM are not the responsibility of the person responding to the LFM. Part of the fun is working with the group you have. Maybe you are short on tanks, or short on casters, or short on healers - who cares? That is part of the game, and the game is fun. Deal with it and enjoy yourself while doing so.

Or you could start a guild and set out strict requirements for all players regarding what spells they must have, what skills they must have, what gear they must carry, etc... That way when you group with them there won't be the issues of players not having the spell/gear/skills they are "expected" to have.

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask a sorcerer at the start of a quest, "Can you haste me?" If he or she does, that's great. Some people even thank them. If they can't or won't Haste you, chug a pot and move on, or get a hireling that casts Haste. That seems more reasonable to me than telling every sorcerer in the game that they should carry Haste and that it is a mandatory function for them to cast it on everyone in the group.

An LFM that says 'caster needed' is actually more complex than that. It actually reads like this:
Need caster who can haste/rage, and possibly may need resists/blur.
If Wiz: Bring CCs/death spells and situational nukes.
If Sorc: bring nukes and situational CCs. Death spells may be optional.
If Bard: Bring songs and CCs. Wish you had resists. You may be called upon to spot heal.

Thats alot of stuff crammed into one little phrase, I know. But it *IS* the standard. A caster is expected to be much more than just a rage/haste bot. This is just the way groups work. If you want to be part of a group that is just 6 people soling the same instance, thats fine. But that is not the standard.

[phillymiket]

Nope, no one is really defending the practice, it actually started as an attempt to inform new sorc players that the melee like it, but wasn't done very politely. It has since then devolved into a shouting match of who can be more inconsiderate, with the melee's winning overwhelmingly by turning on their aura of entitlement.

Apparently no one took the Entitlement Aura line so I guess I gotta drink a crappy Entitlement pot.
Nice "teamwork" guys.

Oh wait, nvm. I forgot I went into troll form.
I'm self-entitling while in form. (and immune to crits)

[varusso]

Answer in Gold

Agreed, every melee at least should carry haste pots -- for when they missed the caster's haste or when there isnt a caster in the party. I often even carry haste/rage clickies on my CASTERS, so if my SP runs out, I can at least drop them on the group until we get to the shrine.

[grodon9999]

Did you mean "not enough words in the English language....?"

Because there are definitely words in the English language to describe how stupid it is.

But none could quite capture the essence of stupidity, this is beyond full-******.

[theboatman]

Apparently no one took the Entitlement Aura line so I guess I gotta drink a crappy Entitlement pot.
Nice "teamwork" guys.

Oh wait, nvm. I forgot I went into troll form.
I'm self-entitling while in form. (and immune to crits)

Yep, that aura is one of the top buffs, but its always better when someone else gets it; my build is too important for something like that, even though it really makes or breaks the build. So make sure you have it when I play, please. :P