PSA Haste does not waste a valuable spell slot

[caberonia]

You must spread reputation around before giving it to philymiket again

here i'll rep him for ya :P

but i still think That if the effects of something are so great that you EXPECT someone else to have it.. then you should have a clicky or pot form of it as well (if one is available of course.. haste is very available in clicky and pot forms). That way you don't have any issue when someone doesn't have it.

[svinja]

Comparing haste pots and clickies which are readily available to Kundrak boots (raid gear) is a fair comparison how?

Why not? The option is there. Many melees haven't had the chance to create haste clickies yet. It is not a reasonable expectation. Pots are terrible, and both clickies and pots are less efficient and convenient than me just casting haste.

I am all for casters throwing haste at tactical points for dps boost, at the same time if they are cc, instakilling or however they want to play that is making getting through the quest easier I am happy for it, at the end of it I will have an opion of them based on how well they managed it not by if they kept me hasted or not. If that PM has wailed all but 2 mobs in the group I will happily drink a pot and take out those last two. If the enchanter AM has mass held the mobs cool I drink a pot and kill etc. Is haste more sp efficient? yep, but in either of these cases as an example I would rather them do that then provide a haste. Of course doing that and haste would be great But if needed I can provide the latter.

If you get a kick out of buffing etc great. On a caster I can guarantee (particulary epics) GH, blur and the required resists. Rage and haste at key points though these last two are not essential.

I don't get a "kick" out of buffing, I doubt anybody does. But I also don't get a kick out of intentionally making the quest more difficult or less enjoyable for other members of my group.

If you are an arcane and don't haste, you are not as efficient as you could be. It doesn't matter if you do well, as you could do better. It is not complicated - it is easy to haste, it is probably the highest DPS per SP spell in the game in most groups, also helps move faster, don't be a baby about it, haste your melee.

[Esserbe]

I believe that SLAs have different cooldowns than regular spells. That would allow you to cast more Frost Lances per minute - especially considering the Frost Lance Spell's crazy fast cooldown.

Doesn't make for a good spell rotation, in my opinion. Polar Ray is so cheap now, does more damage and offers no save so I'd much rather cast SLA + PR than SLA + FL.

[Astraghal]

Me I tend to recognise the ones who prefer to complain about others then actually get in and play. Its not rocket science really, if you are not getting what you perceive as what you need from xyz then don't group with them in future. There are key buffs that it can't be argued that make things go smoother and anyone who says that getting a 4 min haste is not more convenient than a 30 second or 90 second clickie haste is lying. At the same time anyone who says that that using clickies or pots is little more than an inconvenience is stretching it.

Anyway you and I pretty much disagree on most things so I will try and avoid responding directly to you in future.

Ya I've noticed you are a pretty disagreeable guy. The comment you responded to wasn't even directed at you. Go figure.

It's not just an inconvenience to drink a Haste and Rage pot every 30 and 130 seconds, it wastes time that could be used doing DPS when other short term clickies and boosts are ticking. It's just slower and less efficient, you can't argue with that.

[noinfo]

So wait you do carry Haste?

Ok, so you don't argue that there are better spells for level three then Haste.

Do you argue that Haste isn't a good damaging spell for the SP used?
I would counter that argument if you did.

Are you just being contrary because you don't like the "HJASTE ME!!" attitude of some people?

What is your argument again?

Before quoting me, think you better go read my posts first. But just in case let me recap:
1. Haste is good, my casters will use it tactically as I see it needed or the leader of the group requires it.
2. It is so good infact that if your melee decides he needs it at whatever time he better have a pot for it, they are cheap.
3. I can't think of a better spell to have but if the caster is performing by reducing mob numbers, cc or whatever I don't care if I am chugging haste pots on my melee. This is not the case with my caster but I am sure as hell not going to keep extend just for that.
4. Caster haste is NOT required to complete a quest, nor are most things people consider a MUST.

[sweez]

Btw, you guys are seriously comparing remove poison pots, that last 7 minutes, to haste pots, that last 30 seconds? Seriously?

Are we gonna have a "PSA: time is relative" thread going up soon?

[Kovalas]

That if the effects of something are so great that you EXPECT someone else to have it.. then you should have a clicky or pot form of it as well (if one is available of course.. haste is very available in clicky and pot forms). That way you don't have any issue when someone doesn't have it.

I have no problem on my Ranger buffing resists, jump and FOM, to save SP for the casters to nuke/have fun....

I have Shroud haste clickie, and pots, but I still EXPECT the caster to haste me, full stop!

[Ironforge_Clan]

Hi,
I just wanted to let aspiring Sorcs of levels 18-20 know, that the Spell Haste (Haste). does not indeed take up a spot better used for DPS spells.

I don't want to be rude and point out how annoying it is during a Shroud run when neither Sorc has it, and when questioned, one replies that it is a waste of a Spell slot for a Sorc, so I won't.

I also won't point out how many of your Sorc SP's could -perhaps- be put to better use than you casting Lightning Bolts at the portals. ( I know I know, you threw a polar ray or two as well, I don't want to suggest you're a one trick pony)


Seriously though, 2 Sorcs neither carries Haste. Is this a new thing? is my Haste (and forgive me, extend) carrying Sorc breaking some new optimal design build? Am I missing out on some better than haste level 3 DPS spell?

You're not being rude but you are essentially telling other people how to play their characters. Gkar has pointed out that haste can be cast by others and it comes in post. Is it a Sorc's fault that you don't have pots and think you need haste?

My simple solution...my charater's bio simply states..."I don't buff". People can read it and realize that, on my sorc, I don't waste my time. Given the fact that there are ship buffs, posts, wands, clickies, etc. there is very little reason for me to waste my time and blue bar.

Oh and FYI I do carry haste and do cast it (on occassion) :P

[noinfo]

Ya I've noticed you are a pretty disagreeable guy. The comment you responded to wasn't even directed at you. Go figure.

It's not just an inconvenience to drink a Haste and Rage pot every 30 and 130 seconds, it wastes time that could be used doing DPS when other short term clickies and boosts are ticking. It's just slower and less efficient, you can't argue with that.

Well it was directed in a quote however I will appolgise for being disagreeable

I did say it was less efficient in other posts, but not dramatically. 1 spell hitting everyone is nice, but I will drink a haste pot/clickie as I am closing on my targets since they don't seem to last that long, its just a matter of timing, ballancing it vs other clickies can be a pain I will give you but though it is less efficient I don't think its that big of deal.

[Astraghal]

here i'll rep him for ya :P

but i still think That if the effects of something are so great that you EXPECT someone else to have it.. then you should have a clicky or pot form of it as well (if one is available of course.. haste is very available in clicky and pot forms). That way you don't have any issue when someone doesn't have it.

No, I think I'll just turn autoattack on and resign myself to the fact that the quest is going to take 'x' times longer or the the chances of wiping or using resources has just gone up for a factor of 'x', then mindlessly whittle away at the closest mob.

I will stop wasting time, resources and effort trying to make up for the shortcomings of others.

I will be sure to mention in the post mortems of failure, which buffs could have sped up the DPS or prevented the healer from running out of SP.

They will eventually learn.

[caberonia]

I have no problem on my Ranger buffing resists, jump and FOM, to save SP for the casters to nuke/have fun....

I have Shroud haste clickie, and pots, but I still EXPECT the caster to haste me, full stop!

And if you end up in a party with a caster who doesn't have haste (or a party without a caster)? DO you use your clickies on the party or pots on yourself and go on with the run? Or do you spend your time complaining that he doesn't have haste and decide to post a PSA on the subject?

The first option is what I expect of people.. the second one.. is why this thread is even here.

[ddoplayer064]

I carry it on my Sorc and Bard.
I cast when I deem it appropriate. I, not you...
If you don't like it, then like what the FvS told me one time, suck a pot.

[taurean430]

here i'll rep him for ya :P

Fair enough

Some people are just plain rude about common expectations regarding other classes. On my first toon, I repeatedly ran into folks who felt my only function was to provide buffs to the group. I love Update 9 in the sense that I can still do all the buffing I did before - but still contribute in a much bigger way in groups. I find myself from time to time wishing I had just a bit more mana for another cast. So the search for more gear continues along with the multiple TR's of that toon.

People get the buffs that make them better from my bard/wiz/cleric/fvs's. Not because they bellowed, hemmed and hawed for them, but because we do much better as a group with them. People who behave like a horse's patootey and are just asinine I make note of and avoid. The extreme cases of negative treatment learn quickly not to mess with me. Your support giveth, and your support can taketh away.

Besides, it seems to me to be the right thing to do. A melee group doing 15% less is that much or more of a strain on other support in a raid setting. I felt really bad for a couple of new capped clerics that simply ran out of sp to support the group through part 5 of the Shroud recently. All through that fight people were asking for haste/rage.

[stille_nacht]

As more guilds get higher level and better airships, I am considering dropping resist energy. I'll give you a ship invite if you really want them.

dropping resist energy for a level 2 spell that wont make it into the spell cast cycle because some parties might have a person with a guild airship with every single resist isnt something i'd do.

haste is not a must, but its a cost/benefit thing. i mean, polar ray isnt a MUST on an ice savant, but its also good. similarly, haste is good. besides, you have 4 other spell slots for level 3 spells, and as a sorc, youd get the main damaging one as an SLA anyway.

[Ironforge_Clan]

i Carry It On My Sorc And Bard.
I Cast When I Deem It Appropriate. I, Not You...
If You Don't Like It, Then Like What The Fvs Told Me One Time, Suck A Pot.

Qft!

[Yaga_Nub]

dropping resist energy for a level 2 spell that wont make it into the spell cast cycle because some parties might have a person with a guild airship with every single resist isnt something i'd do.

This.

Plus what happens if you die in the quest/raid?

[Ironforge_Clan]

This.

Plus what happens if you die in the quest/raid?

-10P what else!

[Astraghal]

And if you end up in a party with a caster who doesn't have haste? DO you use your clickies on the party or pots on yourself and go on with the run? Or do you spend your time complaining that he doesn't have haste and decide to post a PSA on the subject?

No, you let the quest take that much longer, then over time people will start to realise that quests with that caster in them always take longer, then they will stop grouping with them and group with the casters who DO keep the party hasted.

JUST LIKE THEY DID IN ORDER TO ARRIVE AT THE POINT WHERE HAVING HASTE WAS THE STANDARD.

[noinfo]

here i'll rep him for ya :P

but i still think That if the effects of something are so great that you EXPECT someone else to have it.. then you should have a clicky or pot form of it as well (if one is available of course.. haste is very available in clicky and pot forms). That way you don't have any issue when someone doesn't have it.

Exactly and even more importantly they will realise that a quest can be done without xyz class in many cases.

[DevHead]

I will happily take it on my Drow sorc if there are no other spells I'd rather she have. This is considering that she will NOT be taking Extend due to feat famine, but I will do my best to take Haste. I want my meat shields up and running, and Haste helps a lot with that.