PSA Haste does not waste a valuable spell slot

[curboUS]

I think if you post an LFM asking specifically for a healer and a cleric joins, only to later admit he is a "battle cleric" and only has minimal healing skills, that is rude on the part of the cleric.

If you post an LFM "need a trapmonkey" and a rogue joins, only to later admit he is not specced to do anything but the most basic traps, that is rude on the part of the rogue.

.

We can always start to LFM like this then : '1 spot Caster (with Haste and using it) 1 spot ...'

Previously 'caster' implied have haste and the use of it, at least it did in Europe. Ofc the changes to extend impacts the game now. But lets be honest - when you see '1 spot caster' don't think that group want's one that carries haste and uses it ?

Do we now need to add a 'haste' qualifier in LFM's ? Really hope not.

[phillymiket]

Caster usually is not in meele range, together with meeles, so ho can't see when haste runs out. Not to mention, that casters usually got more buffs than meeles, and you can have only 27 1/2 buff displayed.

Well true but...I cast a Haste at the start of a fight. It lasts a while and we are usually grouped when it is cast. I can easily see when it runs out and cast a second.

IF we need a third (and not too many fights except some raid bosses last that long) then i can guesstimate or someone will usually say "fresh haste please".

The 27 1/2 buffs displayed used to be an issue but now with the newest buffs on the right it isn't anymore unless you have 27 1/2 buffs you cast on yourself AFTER casting haste.

And really that is all just a whole lot of nothing.
Casting Haste has nothing to do with the ease or difficulty of casting the spell.
It is a choice of wanting to or not.

[somenewnoob]

My fighter carries clickies and potions. Try it if you need haste.

[phillymiket]

My fighter carries clickies and potions. Try it if you need haste.

So do mine. However, if the caster doesn't cast Haste how many in party will use pots and clickies? Some sure but most will not.

I just feel, when I'm on my casters, that 15% of all of the party's melee damage for 6 or 12 seconds per caster level is a dang good use of my SP.

Also, cutting down on quest completion times by moving faster means more XP for my caster while leveling.

[boomeranky]

What comes next? Bards tired of singing songs? Barbs and fighters too lazy to carry a weapon or to fight?

Rogues not picking locks/disabling traps? (oh well, got that in masses already)


To those arcanes who think resist is unnecessary now because of shipbuffs - everybody can die once in a while, ever done shroud without a single death? xD How bout doing harry without fire resist?

Also not everybody with a blue bar can cast resists - bards don't have the spell and at best can carry a resist wand casting lvl 11 (if they got lucky drops/bought it in ah) with a 10 minute buff ... not even enough for a reavers round.

Haste increases attack speed and gives a stacking to hit bonus. Clickies dont last long enough to be replacements except in worst case scenarios. And my inventory is already overcrowded without them, thanks! (though as bard i am happily casting an extended haste myself all the time, so does not really count, but my cleric is overcrowded too and has definitely no space left for more clickies)

If you think your blue bar is for your personal enjoyment alone and not to help the group accomplish the current task, go solo the game and don't group!

The fact that sorcerers now have a difficult time fitting extend into their build doesn't make haste obsolete, I was a long time without extend on my bards first life and know that it is enough to keep the group going.

That's all from me here.

[Gkar]

It's "Khurse" (although I admit I wish I thought of "Mr Superior" when I made the account)
That aside.

I was speaking in general, I wasn't calling you names. If the wave of "PSA" posts were all yours I missed that fact...I guess I just didn't pay enough attention to them

[Gkar]

ever done shroud without a single death?

I offer a FRD to the first person that can post a completed shroud with zero deaths lmao

[Bart_D]

This topic reminds me of the sorc who thought CC in epics meant 'more lightning bolts'.

My splashed bard and sorc are both perma-extended haste/raged and neither would go without. Haste is the single most damaging spell, though wail/imposion may be close.

Did someone mention resist elements? My bard wants that spell, pronto! (And jump too if i didn't have clickies!)

Edit: I'm frequently more than a little thick-skulled... what does PSA stand for?

[caberonia]

We can always start to LFM like this then : '1 spot Caster (with Haste and using it) 1 spot ...'

Previously 'caster' implied have haste and the use of it, at least it did in Europe. Ofc the changes to extend impacts the game now. But lets be honest - when you see '1 spot caster' don't think that group want's one that carries haste and uses it ?

Do we now need to add a 'haste' qualifier in LFM's ? Really hope not.

It always helps to be more specific in LFMs. If you need a Haste bot put it in your LFM. At least then the casters who actually read the LFMs will know what they're getting into. (people ACTUALLY reading LFMs is a diff. subject..) People have diff builds.. and people assuming every caster is going to have the build they want or expect is the root of this issue.. not that people have diff builds. Simply being specific of what sort of build you want in your LFM would help alleviate any problems you have with people not having the cookie cutter build you expect.

I personally would take haste.. but i'm not gonna be an arse if i invite someone and they don't have it unless i specify in my LFM thats what i need.

(On a side note.. some people irk me with haste.. begging for it every time it wears.. as if my whole existence is to walk around hasting them.. this is why some people don't take haste.. cause they don't wanna walk around spamming haste all day. I don't mind giving out buffs.. but don't demand it every 2 mins.. carry some pots or a clicky rather than shouting in party chat. HASTE. HASTE PLZ. HASTE. HASTE. Because you know I might actually be busy doing something OTHER than being your personal haste bot)

[Sparky21]

yeah this is why i made 2x shroud haste, displace, and stoneskin clickies on my melee. now i can do the arcane buffing needed for most quests just in case the arcane is inexperienced and drops these spells for whatever looks good at the time

[Astraghal]

In my experience, most Arcanes don't give rage or haste anymore since U9.

[phillymiket]

I offer a FRD to the first person that can post a completed shroud with zero deaths lmao

Hopefully no one has screenies of the days when I hear folks flew over the shroud to part 5 with Reavers Refuge giant fly spell bug.

(Is is against forum rules to list an exploit that can't be replicated anymore? If so, whoops. )

Edit: I'm frequently more than a little thick-skulled... what does PSA stand for?

Prostate-Specific Antigen
(or sometimes Professional Skaters Association or Photographic Society of America but that usage wouldn't make any sense in this thread)

[Cam_Neely]

I hope a specific guild on Orien reads this. It has been a disturbing trend that their WIZARDS dont carry this cause they are 'dot and cc spec'd'. They would not responds what better lv3 spells, so not sure what their though was.

PS this was not some minor quest, but Epic VoNI and Epic Into the Deep. Needless to say both Wizards were out of SP early, and piked a large amount.


GO BRUINS!

[taurean430]

I just think we have a new breed of casters with recent changes.

They need to understand what works and doesn't work in a party setting. It's up to us to make up for the gap when running into this kind of thing in the game proper. I've mentioned before that my first serious toon in this game was a caster. While I remain a huge fan of the recent spellpass (mostly), new casters need to understand better that there are things each class bring to the team as a whole. Haste/Rage falls into that category. As annoyed as I was when I was a new player with people being downright rude, you cannot contest the fact these two spells remain a key factor in overall party effectiveness.

Whether your spells are extended or unextended, they are still needed by the group. I run my Wizard this way. I sometimes get irritated that half of my sp bar is spent getting people properly buffed for content, and maintaining said buffs. Then I think of just how much easier whatever quest I am running is compared to another time when I was on one of my melee and not provided anything.

The reason that you have multiple classes that can provide similar buffs is to divide the load. Then everyone has more sp to do what they do, and proper buffs. When you have players in the group helping each other, no one takes a huge hit. Sadly, this seems to be something that is in danger of going away.

Just because my divines can solo content doesn't mean I shouldn't buff the party. The same is true for my Wizard. When I want all of my sp to accomplish a task, I solo. To join a group with such a selfish notion is asinine.

[mobrien316]

We can always start to LFM like this then : '1 spot Caster (with Haste and using it) 1 spot ...'

Previously 'caster' implied have haste and the use of it, at least it did in Europe. Ofc the changes to extend impacts the game now. But lets be honest - when you see '1 spot caster' don't think that group want's one that carries haste and uses it ?

Do we now need to add a 'haste' qualifier in LFM's ? Really hope not.

If you have a specific need then you should post that in the LFM. If your specific need need can be met by buying pots then you should definitely post it in the LFM. "Caster needed" should not be interpreted by everyone as "Haste-bot" needed; it should and likely will be interpreted to mean the party is looking for a wizard or a sorcerer, primarily for offensive support.

The assumptions of the person posting the LFM are not the responsibility of the person responding to the LFM. Part of the fun is working with the group you have. Maybe you are short on tanks, or short on casters, or short on healers - who cares? That is part of the game, and the game is fun. Deal with it and enjoy yourself while doing so.

Or you could start a guild and set out strict requirements for all players regarding what spells they must have, what skills they must have, what gear they must carry, etc... That way when you group with them there won't be the issues of players not having the spell/gear/skills they are "expected" to have.

I don't think it is unreasonable to ask a sorcerer at the start of a quest, "Can you haste me?" If he or she does, that's great. Some people even thank them. If they can't or won't Haste you, chug a pot and move on, or get a hireling that casts Haste. That seems more reasonable to me than telling every sorcerer in the game that they should carry Haste and that it is a mandatory function for them to cast it on everyone in the group.

[SkyEyes_Sorceress]

Cleric/FVS is expected to heal in a group-environment.
Rogue is expected to do traps.
Bard is expected to have songs/rage/haste.
Barb/fighter/pally are expected to bring DPS and or intim.
Wiz are expected to have rage/haste and a few other buffs, CC, death spells, and some nukes.
Sorc are expected to have rage/haste and a few other buffs, nukes, and possibly situational CCs.
Everyone is expected to have heals/remove curse/remove poison/Haste Pots

Answer in Gold

[Graithron]

My views on the matter ( I say that as if anyone cares )

1/ I never expect buffs or heals from any other character in a pug and when I do get them I thank the caster.

2/ All my characters have pots or clickies for all occasions if you cant look after yourself then you have noone but yourself to blame when things go wrong.

3/ I have no right to tell anyone what they should have on there hotbar just as they have no right to tell me.

4/ Haste has never been necessary to complete any quest but then again I'm of the crowd that don't care if the quest takes 20 mins to complete instead of 15 mins.

5/ Is haste nice to have of course it is but I have never expected it and never will, when I do get it it's a nice little treat and I enjoy it while it lasts.

The people saying that casters who dont cast haste are not team players are not talking about team play what they realy mean is there potentially slowing down the completion of the quest and that is just unacceptable how dare they think there build idea is more important than getting that quest done quicker.

The problem is there is dps toons out there who think the game revolves round them and all other classes are just there to bask in there glory and support them. You just have to check back on all the posts after upate 9 and the outcry that casters could now dps at the same level as them and as such most casters just dont know there place anymore its terrible.

[phillymiket]

it should and likely will be interpreted to mean the party is looking for a wizard or a sorcerer, primarily for offensive support.

I wonder how often casters who don't carry Haste get asked in a pug group for a Haste?

Never? Rarely? Sometimes? Just about every single quest?

I suspect that it is the latter.

So I suppose it could be argued that "caster needed" usually means someone who will buff the party with Haste in addition to all of the other great things casters do.

That doesn't mean you are relegated to "Hastebot" status. Haste doesn't take up that much SP or casting time and I don't have a huge hardship fitting it in my spell list.

[shadowhop]

The only reason to not haste a party is when you want to have the best kill count, you are new to ddo or when you are soloing in a group.

With my bard i sing songs for the party and if a song/spell ends its good if a party member remembers me so i can sing/cast it again.

This game is a group game and if you do not agree with that then just solo.

[Anneliese]

A higher level caster not carrying haste is equivalent to a high level divine not carrying the heal spell.