PSA Haste does not waste a valuable spell slot

[Khurse]

Hi,
I just wanted to let aspiring Sorcs of levels 18-20 know, that the Spell Haste (Haste). does not indeed take up a spot better used for DPS spells.

I don't want to be rude and point out how annoying it is during a Shroud run when neither Sorc has it, and when questioned, one replies that it is a waste of a Spell slot for a Sorc, so I won't.

I also won't point out how many of your Sorc SP's could -perhaps- be put to better use than you casting Lightning Bolts at the portals. ( I know I know, you threw a polar ray or two as well, I don't want to suggest you're a one trick pony)


Seriously though, 2 Sorcs neither carries Haste. Is this a new thing? is my Haste (and forgive me, extend) carrying Sorc breaking some new optimal design build? Am I missing out on some better than haste level 3 DPS spell?

[varusso]

My capped bank-mule sorc carries extended haste; rage, too.

[stille_nacht]

lol, there is no way to justify all the lv 3 slots that sorcs carry as better than haste.

i had a similar issue with a sorc who didnt pick up resist energy. really? you dropped the most damage decreasing spell in the game for a skillful sorc? for a level 2 spell? are there even 5 spells you WANT? let alone need...

[lugoman]

lol, there is no way to justify all the lv 3 slots that sorcs carry as better than haste.

i had a similar issue with a sorc who didnt pick up resist energy. really? you dropped the most damage decreasing spell in the game for a skillful sorc? for a level 2 spell? are there even 5 spells you WANT? let alone need...

As more guilds get higher level and better airships, I am considering dropping resist energy. I'll give you a ship invite if you really want them.

[fluffybunnywilson]

As more guilds get higher level and better airships, I am considering dropping resist energy. I'll give you a ship invite if you really want them.

I swapped out Resist Energy for a day at mid level for some reason (don't remember why). Everything went along just fine until one of the party members died. Then they kept dying because they no longer had any resists.

I put Resist Energy back on at the next shrine.

[stille_nacht]

As more guilds get higher level and better airships, I am considering dropping resist energy. I'll give you a ship invite if you really want them.

dropping resist energy for a level 2 spell that wont make it into the spell cast cycle because some parties might have a person with a guild airship with every single resist isnt something i'd do.

haste is not a must, but its a cost/benefit thing. i mean, polar ray isnt a MUST on an ice savant, but its also good. similarly, haste is good. besides, you have 4 other spell slots for level 3 spells, and as a sorc, youd get the main damaging one as an SLA anyway.

[Yaga_Nub]

dropping resist energy for a level 2 spell that wont make it into the spell cast cycle because some parties might have a person with a guild airship with every single resist isnt something i'd do.

This.

Plus what happens if you die in the quest/raid?

[Ironforge_Clan]

This.

Plus what happens if you die in the quest/raid?

-10P what else!

[MeliCat]

lol, there is no way to justify all the lv 3 slots that sorcs carry as better than haste.

i had a similar issue with a sorc who didnt pick up resist energy. really? you dropped the most damage decreasing spell in the game for a skillful sorc? for a level 2 spell? are there even 5 spells you WANT? let alone need...

Oh I've come across one of those sorcs. While on a cleric. So guess who had to do the resisting of the whole party including himself? He was oh-so-proud of being a glass cannon. My mild comment of 'oh really?' did not express how truly amused I was by this. (The quest was wizking so I way out killed him while keeping the party alive....)

I kind of understand sorcs not having blur - as long as they have displacement.

I know that a lot of new players don't understand haste if they have expeditious retreat. They don't understand that haste does not make you just *run* faster, it makes you *hit* things faster (ie more often). Just a little bit of gentle explanation in party is all that is needed. If you do it in the right way hopefully they get the message. If not well, it's only one quest and you move on taking note of who they are.....

[Raithe]

...are there even 5 spells you WANT? let alone need...

Unfortunately, sorcerors only get 4 level 2 spells. I would -really- like to be able to pick up Otto's Resistable Dance with my sorceror, because:

1) It lasts 3 times as long as OID
2) With the new debuffs its easy to get it to DC 40+ without heightening while still being cheaper than OID
3) Its extremely spell point efficient when you don't need a high DC

Currently web, scorching ray, and resist energy are taking up 3 of the 4 slots and I would not consider trading them out. Resist energy is simply a required spell to maintain any degree of damage mitigation in quests, and debuffing occurs too often for guild buffs to make a dent in the need.

[Riorik]

i had a similar issue with a sorc who didnt pick up resist energy. really? you dropped the most damage decreasing spell in the game for a skillful sorc? for a level 2 spell? are there even 5 spells you WANT? let alone need...

I've seen OLD Sorceror's make this tradeoff for Resist Energy. I didn't agree with it, but the character never seemed to miss a beat and...frankly...*everyone else* carries it including me.

I think it's quite possible with the right play style and skill, to be extremely effective without many spells some consider must-haves. Except, for Haste. That's a first for me...I've seen Sorceror's make the argument that extend isn't necessary since, forever...just not having it at all?

I wonder if they were having a little fun at the OP's expense.

Geez, page 40? Stop the iNsAnItY?

[Milfeulle]

Geez, page 40? Stop the iNsAnItY?

I believe this thread have become a manifest zone of Xoriat.

[Vellrad]

I believe this thread have become a manifest zone of Xoriat.

lol!

[Gkar]

With extend gone for many sorcs now haste is less attractive than it was. Blame Turbine.

Most wizards still carry it, bards carry it, and it comes in pots. It's not life or death to have it.

(I still carry both haste and extend on my L20 sorc...but its temping...)

(and has anyone else noticed the trend in the last few weeks for people to start posts saying "PSA" and then go to on to tell other players who to build their characters because Mr superior knows better?)

[Khurse]

With extend gone for many sorcs now haste is less attractive than it was. Blame Turbine.

Most wizards still carry it, bards carry it, and it comes in pots. It's not life or death to have it.

(I still carry both haste and extend on my L20 sorc...but its temping...)

(and has anyone else noticed the trend in the last few weeks for people to start posts saying "PSA" and then go to on to tell other players who to build their characters because Mr superior knows better?)

It's "Khurse" (although I admit I wish I thought of "Mr Superior" when I made the account)
That aside.

I do know better.
If you don't carry Haste and run with a core group of people, no worries.
If you are a new Sorc to the game and Unguilded (or in one of the new guilds) and ask me about joining mine while telling me that your sorc needs the level 3 spot for a DPS spell, I'm probably going to mention it might be a better idea to take haste.

I'll even point out I said "aspiring" ie "newer". Sorcs.
Just because I would never tell an experienced Sorc that he should carry haste any more than I would tell them they're wasting their time casting Lightning Bolts and Polar rays at the Shroud Portals.

[varusso]

I find that keeping everyone haste/rage (including myself) increases the overall party DPS, as well as speed of completion. Not to mention other little inconsequential things such as extra HP, saves, run speed, and bonuses to-hit. Crazy talk, I know.

[Gkar]

It's "Khurse" (although I admit I wish I thought of "Mr Superior" when I made the account)
That aside.

I was speaking in general, I wasn't calling you names. If the wave of "PSA" posts were all yours I missed that fact...I guess I just didn't pay enough attention to them

[Missing_Minds]

With extend gone for many sorcs now haste is less attractive than it was. Blame Turbine.

I state this generically as I do not know how any of you actually act in game.

Blame the reception that most casters got at higher level. Arcane caster = hastebot. Demands, expectations, and next to no polite requests or the like.

Add in the spell pass and some refuse to carry it any more.

Players should treat people like people they want to play with. It goes a long way.

FYI, yes, my sorc still has it.

[varusso]

I state this generically as I do not know how any of you actually act in game.

Blame the reception that most casters got at higher level. Arcane caster = hastebot. Demands, expectations, and next to no polite requests or the like.

Add in the spell pass and some refuse to carry it any more.

Players should treat people like people they want to play with. It goes a long way.

FYI, yes, my sorc still has it.

Cleric/FVS is expected to heal in a group-environment.
Rogue is expected to do traps.
Bard is expected to have songs/rage/haste.
Barb/fighter/pally are expected to bring DPS and or intim.
Wiz are expected to have rage/haste and a few other buffs, CC, death spells, and some nukes.
Sorc are expected to have rage/haste and a few other buffs, nukes, and possibly situational CCs.
Everyone is expected to have heals/remove curse/remove poison/heavy fort/lots of HP......
This is all standard *in addition* to whatever flavor you are currently working on, on your particular toon.

There are alot of expectations in place for everyone. None of it is rude. Its just how the game is played, particularly once we leave the harbor and market quests behind us. Its like going to a pot-luck dinner party and not bringing a dish.

[mobrien316]

Cleric/FVS is expected to heal in a group-environment.
Rogue is expected to do traps.
Bard is expected to have songs/rage/haste.
Barb/fighter/pally are expected to bring DPS and or intim.
Wiz are expected to have rage/haste and a few other buffs, CC, death spells, and some nukes.
Sorc are expected to have rage/haste and a few other buffs, nukes, and possibly situational CCs.
Everyone is expected to have heals/remove curse/remove poison/heavy fort/lots of HP......
This is all standard *in addition* to whatever flavor you are currently working on, on your particular toon.

There are alot of expectations in place for everyone. None of it is rude. Its just how the game is played, particularly once we leave the harbor and market quests behind us. Its like going to a pot-luck dinner party and not bringing a dish.

I think if you post an LFM asking specifically for a healer and a cleric joins, only to later admit he is a "battle cleric" and only has minimal healing skills, that is rude on the part of the cleric.

If you post an LFM "need a trapmonkey" and a rogue joins, only to later admit he is not specced to do anything but the most basic traps, that is rude on the part of the rogue.

However, in my opinion, telling other players that if they play a certain class they "should" do this or that is a bit controlling. Part of the fun of the game is playing characters with whatever flavor build you want. Sometimes you play the "accepted" best version of a class, sometimes you play a version close to that but with a few differences for flavor, and sometimes you play something far removed from the "expected standard" because you find it fun to do so and this is a game. I for one would not want to see DDO turn into a game where you pick a class and are automatically issued weapons, armor, gear, skills, and feats and have no input in building your character. Would anyone have enjoyed PnP if the DM gave them a prerolled character and told them how to play it?

My sorcerer can cast Haste, but I don't consider it his job to do so, and neither should the other members of a PUG. I also carry healing pots and wands, and I consider it my job to look after my health unless a cleric specifically says he or she will be healing the party during a certain battle.

I think if you want to run a guild and demand that all players conform to specific guidelines when making their characters (all clerics must have Empowered Healing and be Radiant Servants, all sorcerers must carry Haste and Rage, all rogues must max Search, Spot, and Disable Device, etc...) that's up to you.

On my melee toons I carry Haste pots. If the party's arcanes can and will cast Haste on me, great, I'll save the Haste pots for another time. If they can't, well, it's not their responsibility to buff me.

I prefer to have other party members at least throw me a "ty" when I Haste/Rage/Resist them with my sorcerer, rather than having them take it for granted because, to them, that's what I am "supposed" to do.