PSA Haste does not waste a valuable spell slot

[stille_nacht]

There are few enough good players in the game. There is absolutely no reason to boot a potentially good player because you make the prejudiced decision that, without a specific spell, he or she must be gimped, stupid, and selfish.

i certainly wouldnt boot the sorc, but i will say dropping haste implies at least 4 3rd level spells for damage. This represents obvious bad decision making (if you have 4 3rd level spells in your spell cycle, it does less damage, and you havent hasted the party). (obviously i am talking in context of capped or almost capped sorcs)

also, page 36! we're getting to plaid!

this thread is also almost half as long as "noobs stupid remark of the week"

[hityawithastick]

Below level 14, I'd say that haste is absolutely not needed on a sorc.

But after about level 15, my personal spell arrangement is frost lance or lightning bolt, displacement, fireball, and haste. Eventually I swap fireball for rage, because DBF just outclasses it. I even use haste occasionally when not in groups, usually when soloing gets nasty.

Because Expeditious Retreat is nice, but sometimes you need to run a little faster than a jarilith.

[Raithe]

There are few enough good players in the game. There is absolutely no reason to boot a potentially good player because you make the prejudiced decision that, without a specific spell, he or she must be gimped, stupid, and selfish.

It's not a prejudiced decision. Once you know that the caster does not carry haste, or won't supply it, it becomes a partly judicial decision. You have at least some of the facts.

I can think of few behaviors or errors in questing that I would weigh more heavily than an absence of haste on a caster. Rage and displacement - sure, I can see going without, especially if you are a ranged-heavy group. Not carrying haste means that you haven't figured out it's utility in dozens or even hundreds of quests, plus you are willing to forego the personal benefits it bestows to punish or at least limit the efficiency of others in your party.

You seemed to be arguing that a caster without haste is better than many other types of characters, so why discriminate against good players.

I think most people here would argue that it's the sign of a really bad player that makes them tend toward discrimination.

Tho, personally, I probably wouldn't until after they kill all the non-cleric giants in Prey on the Hunter with their fireball spell which hits the dragon too...

[grodon9999]

I’m curious as to what some of you do when a sorcerer without Haste joins your non-specific LFM party and you boot him?

. . .

Hireling. it's cheaper than pots and I don't have to deal with 'SHARE PLZ."

[KoboldKiller]

[muffinlad]

Yeap exactly - thing is...people usually dont feel the need to put "caster w/haste" in the LFM. It has just been assumed for the longest time now. I do see things like "caster w/40+ CC DC." A caster slithering in without haste to me is like a melee FvS sliding into a raid LFM that has 11 non healer classes in it and refusing to heal. "What, you had my class icon up there so I joined" doesnt cut it when you are in the raid and the raid leader expected a healer.

Agree Chai,

Part of this is on the leader. We have had so many assumed standards that the new wave of "I am not going to haste and you are not going to tell me how to play" crowd has grown with the recent upswing in "Sorc Power", as many folks unused to playing Sorcs or Arcanes of any type are showing up and only want to fulfill one part of the social contract of what a party means.

When I am running level 10 or below, I coach, not kick, wizards/sorcs without haste- Or simply play the Arcane myself. Telling folks why Haste is important is part of the story. Sometimes I get a positive response, sometimes I get "I don't know how to respond", and sometimes I get "Don't tell me how to play, etc."

Respect is important, and telling Melee or others to not look at Arcanes as folks that here here to give them their "package" of buffs is also part of the message.

At level 11 and above, I ask that Arcanes be willing, and able to haste the party. If not, I ask them to start their own party. Nothing I say is cruel, or violating their human rights. No haste means- as someone pointed out- I could use a hireling in that spot.

Regards,

muffinplaid.

[Missing_Minds]

Yeap exactly - thing is...people usually dont feel the need to put "caster w/haste" in the LFM. It has just been assumed for the longest time now. I do see things like "caster w/40+ CC DC." A caster slithering in without haste to me is like a melee FvS sliding into a raid LFM that has 11 non healer classes in it and refusing to heal. "What, you had my class icon up there so I joined" doesnt cut it when you are in the raid and the raid leader expected a healer.

Assumption is the mother of all **** UPS! - Under Siege 2.

Only way to be certain is to ask before accepting. (Nuking from orbit is not melee, it is ranged. )

[Fenrisulven6]

I think the reason a lot of people don't take it is because their e-peen feels larger if they have more kills on the xp report shee

I think its because they dropped the nerfed Extend. It was synergetic before to carry another spell that Extend benefitted. Less so now.

[varusso]

Just out of curiosity, what does everyone think this group is looking for specifically?

[Aashrym]

Just out of curiosity, what does everyone think this group is looking for specifically?

That reminds me of another one that had bard, fvs, and cleric. Same idea, we know what they wanted in the LFM.

Fast XP run isn't a dead give away either.

[varusso]

That reminds me of another one that had bard, fvs, and cleric. Same idea, we know what they wanted in the LFM.

Fast XP run isn't a dead give away either.

Exactly my point

[Fenrisulven6]

So you want haste because you're in a hurry to get somewhere? Where are you going?

To rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

so you can cap and then TR and then

rush through the next quest to rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

so you can cap and then TR and then

rush through the next quest to rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

so you can cap and then TR and then

rush through the next quest to rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

and then what?

Where are you going in such a hurry? What do you do when you get there?

[Fenrisulven6]

and oh, pick up some haste pots along the way please.

[Missing_Minds]

Just out of curiosity, what does everyone think this group is looking for specifically?

Handouts.

[Enoach]

So you want haste because you're in a hurry to get somewhere? Where are you going?

To rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

so you can cap and then TR and then

rush through the next quest to rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

so you can cap and then TR and then

rush through the next quest to rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

so you can cap and then TR and then

rush through the next quest to rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

and then what?

Where are you going in such a hurry? What do you do when you get there?

Thank you, thank you, thank you.

[KillEveryone]

So you want people to bring haste pots so that you can finish 10-20% faster, and expect them to be be self sufficient in a PuG, and you consider me a selfish, elitist, control freak.*
This is comedy gold.

*I'd phrase it as a question to make sure it's not just a case of failure to communicate, but by now I know you'd ignore that question (just like all the others) and just re-post the same thing you always do, so yeah.

FYI, I consider myself pretty much self sufficient, I bring a lot of cure potions and wands, and some buff clickies, but they're there for emergencies. I don't expect to have to use them, and I don't expect the other players to have to reach into theirs unless it's a "zerg, know it, self sufficient, BYOH, be able to solo a tower" run, or we can't recruit a healer or arcane and everyone agrees to run without one.

You have failed at any argument you made. Bring something substantial.

[KillEveryone]

Just out of curiosity, what does everyone think this group is looking for specifically?

One LFM?

You need more data than just that.

This just proves those people are not prepared for the quest.

I'd say that they want to bard for songs because the party is full of melee. If they get the wiz then they will be getting high DC spells to carry the rest of the party. If they get the sorcerer, they'll get another DPS that will also carry the party.

You don't have to have haste to contribute. According to you though, it is the only thing those three classes are good for.

If you need haste that bad, suck a pot.

[Vellrad]

Just out of curiosity, what does everyone think this group is looking for specifically?

Someone who complete quest while they pike?

[stille_nacht]

my below, and totally not irrelavant argument, except with haste in the first sentence

yeah! and whats with all those high level spells and high dps spells! why do you need to blast through quests that quickly?

To rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

so you can cap and then TR and then

rush through the next quest to rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

so you can cap and then TR and then

rush through the next quest to rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

so you can cap and then TR and then

rush through the next quest to rush through the quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest so you can rush through the next quest

and then what?

Where are you going in such a hurry? What do you do when you get there?

[Aashrym]

Someone who complete quest while they pike?

One does what one can, but inviting the bard is like asking for a piker sometimes.