PSA Haste does not waste a valuable spell slot

[Ironforge_Clan]

You did, you said you'd be a '****' if you kicked them from a group.

No I said he would be a d!ck for blacklisting.

[grodon9999]

Oh and that sorc without rage/haste won't contribute? Highly doubtful.

I'm not going to *****-foot around this. They will be a useless waste of a party spot.

[grodon9999]

No I said he would be a d!ck for blacklisting.

I can live with that.

[phillymiket]

But that is exactly what Khurse is advocating!

Maybe, but I suspect that if that caster clicked on his Reavers Fate LFM he would accept, haste or not.

I doubt he would blacklist an otherwise good player, just maybe not bring them into difficult content.

I think he's just arguing for someones right to blacklist someone just like you are arguing for someones right to not carry Haste even though both wouldn't do either thing in reality.

(I may be totally off the mark there - just a guess)

[varusso]

It is currently a 14, however I have ran 2 casters to cap and am aware of what spells to use. That was NOT my point nor has it been. As I have pointed out earlier what set me off is the mentality that if I CHOOSE to not carry rage (because I never disputed haste) that I am in some way gimped or inferior as a caster. I also don't claim I won't carry rage and very likely will as I have in the past however if I choose not to my guess is my water savant will still be VERY good at casting it's cold based spells and will in no way be gimped or inferior in what it was built for.

So....youre saying that it is a foregone conclusion for you that rage and haste are the best spells for you to slot (hence why you would always slot them), right....?

Did I say you had to play with them?

But that is exactly what Khurse is advocating!

By telling someone they are doing something wrong in blacklisting someone else, yes you ARE effectively saying that they should play with them. The whole point to a blacklist is to NOT play with that person. Ever. The reason WHY I dont want to group with someone doesnt matter. My blacklist, My choice.
That last is sarcasm BTW.

No I said he would be a d!ck for blacklisting.

Blacklisting someone just says "I dont want to group with this guy IN THE FUTURE either". Thats no different than booting them. Actually, its kinder than booting them once they are in the group, if you really want to get down to it.

ROFL I WISH I hadnt already handed out my rep for the day

[TheDearLeader]

It is currently a 14, however I have ran 2 casters to cap and am aware of what spells to use. That was NOT my point nor has it been. As I have pointed out earlier what set me off is the mentality that if I CHOOSE to not carry rage (because I never disputed haste) that I am in some way gimped or inferior as a caster. I also don't claim I won't carry rage and very likely will as I have in the past however if I choose not to my guess is my water savant will still be VERY good at casting it's cold based spells and will in no way be gimped or inferior in what it was built for.

Okay dude, all good. Thank you for the clarification - much appreciated.

[Ironforge_Clan]

By telling someone they are doing something wrong in blacklisting someone else, yes you ARE effectively saying that they should play with them. The whole point to a blacklist is to NOT play with that person. Ever. The reason WHY I dont want to group with someone doesnt matter. My blacklist, My choice.
That last is sarcasm BTW.

Did I say he was doing something wrong Varusso? No. I'm also not saying that he should play with him. I said he would be a d!ck for blacklisting someone for not carrying haste. It isn't right or wrong. It is his choice to do so...no argument. I just think it is small minded.

[Khurse]

I think he's just arguing for someones right to blacklist someone just like you are arguing for someones right to not carry Haste even though both wouldn't do either thing in reality.

(I may be totally off the mark there - just a guess)

Nah that's it.

You HAVE the right to carry whatever spells you want on your caster.
I HAVE the right to kick you from any group I'm running,as well as tell friends/guildmates/channels that you don't carry/cast haste. Suggesting to others to avoid taking your no haste sorc as the only haste capable toon through a quest doesn't strike me a d!ckish attitude. It does strike me as providing useful information to people I run with.

[Aashrym]

I might see a lock coming soon.

Has anyone given a logical reason other spells are better in those slots at high level yet, or are we still running of the you can't tell me what to do platform?

[Aashrym]

Nah that's it.

You HAVE the right to carry whatever spells you want on your caster.
I HAVE the right to kick you from any group I'm running,as well as tell friends/guildmates/channels that you don't carry/cast haste. Suggesting to others to avoid taking your no haste sorc as the only haste capable toon through a quest doesn't strike me a d!ckish attitude. It does strike me as providing useful information to people I run with.

You might want to rethink post any more PSA's.

[Khurse]

EDIT: Achievement unlocked: 1st post on page 25!

<sigh>
I know.
Hopefully it will die before 30.

[mobrien316]

Not as much as one with the same build and haste.

So we boot/squelch/ban for life the sorcerer who doesn't carry Haste regardless of his contribution in DPS to the party, but we might be more tolerant of one whose build includes Haste? Where does that slipperly slope lead?

If the sorcerer does have Haste and Rage and he/she they do cast it on the party, are you now going to count how many times they cast it to judge their "selfishness" or their contribution to the party? Or will you count the seconds from when the buffs expire to when they are recast to see how much a contribution the sorcerer is making to the party?

It seems that no matter how you look at it, judging the worth of a player by whether/how often they cast Haste is utterly without merit. Blacklisting them for not carrying Haste, or not casting early enough in the quest, or not casting it often enough in the quest, or not renewing it quickly enough when it expires during the quest, does not seem like a reasonable way to proceed.

Everyone is, of course, free to blacklist people for whatever reasons they like, whether the reasons are sound or frivolous.

Good players are good players regardless of whether their build conforms to your (or anyone else's) idea of the "expected norm" for their class. If you quest with them it is easy enough to tell if they are a good player or not - there is absolutely no need to interrogate them upon joining the party and boot them if they don't have a buff you were looking forward to.

[varusso]

Did I say he was doing something wrong Varusso? No. I'm also not saying that he should play with him. I said he would be a d!ck for blacklisting someone for not carrying haste. It isn't right or wrong. It is his choice to do so...no argument. I just think it is small minded.

So....calling someone a **** for doing something is a COMPLIMENT? I though it meant you disapproved (IE: think they are doing something wrong)? Are we really going to do a silly semantic debate on this? If you have an opinion, own it; its fine. Dont try and waster it down after the fact.

Blacklisting is nothing more than auto-declining someone, based on your past experience that they did not meet your expectations. Since they will, in all probability, continue to fail to meet those expectations, why should you be force to "double check" that every time they apply to your group? Save you and them both the hassle and just move on.

<sigh>
I know.
Hopefully it will die before 30.

Just to resurface in a few days as a <cough> "new" thread.

So we boot/squelch/ban for life the sorcerer who doesn't carry Haste regardless of his contribution in DPS to the party, but we might be more tolerant of one whose build includes Haste? Where does that slipperly slope lead?

If the sorcerer does have Haste and Rage and he/she they do cast it on the party, are you now going to count how many times they cast it to judge their "selfishness" or their contribution to the party? Or will you count the seconds from when the buffs expire to when they are recast to see how much a contribution the sorcerer is making to the party?

It seems that no matter how you look at it, judging the worth of a player by whether/how often they cast Haste is utterly without merit. Blacklisting them for not carrying Haste, or not casting early enough in the quest, or not casting it often enough in the quest, or not renewing it quickly enough when it expires during the quest, does not seem like a reasonable way to proceed.

Everyone is, of course, free to blacklist people for whatever reasons they like, whether the reasons are sound or frivolous.

Good players are good players regardless of whether their build conforms to your (or anyone else's) idea of the "expected norm" for their class. If you quest with them it is easy enough to tell if they are a good player or not - there is absolutely no need to interrogate them upon joining the party and boot them if they don't have a buff you were looking forward to.

Nothing slippery about it. You can choose to accept or decline anyone you wish based on any criteria you want to use. Note that the more "picky" you are, the quicker your choices will dwindle.

There is no need to count how many times a player casts their rage and haste. If you look up at your buffbar and see the red and green they have cast it enough times. If you look up during a tough fight and you DONT see red n green, they havent. Pretty simple. If YOU are the duffuss that didnt group up for the casting, then its your own fault, not theirs -- suck a pot.

[Ironforge_Clan]

Nah that's it.

You HAVE the right to carry whatever spells you want on your caster.
I HAVE the right to kick you from any group I'm running,as well as tell friends/guildmates/channels that you don't carry/cast haste. Suggesting to others to avoid taking your no haste sorc as the only haste capable toon through a quest doesn't strike me a d!ckish attitude. It does strike me as providing useful information to people I run with.

You have the right to kick and to not group with that person...no argument there.

The bolded part that is more of a gray area that while generally being helpful to the community isn't necessarily your right. Well let me say that it might conflict with the caster's rights as well.

[Ironforge_Clan]

so We Boot/squelch/ban For Life The Sorcerer Who Doesn't Carry Haste Regardless Of His Contribution In Dps To The Party, But We Might Be More Tolerant Of One Whose Build Includes Haste? Where Does That Slipperly Slope Lead?

If The Sorcerer Does Have Haste And Rage And He/she They Do Cast It On The Party, Are You Now Going To Count How Many Times They Cast It To Judge Their "selfishness" Or Their Contribution To The Party? Or Will You Count The Seconds From When The Buffs Expire To When They Are Recast To See How Much A Contribution The Sorcerer Is Making To The Party?

It Seems That No Matter How You Look At It, Judging The Worth Of A Player By Whether/how Often They Cast Haste Is Utterly Without Merit. Blacklisting Them For Not Carrying Haste, Or Not Casting Early Enough In The Quest, Or Not Casting It Often Enough In The Quest, Or Not Renewing It Quickly Enough When It Expires During The Quest, Does Not Seem Like A Reasonable Way To Proceed.

Everyone Is, Of Course, Free To Blacklist People For Whatever Reasons They Like, Whether The Reasons Are Sound Or Frivolous.

Good Players Are Good Players Regardless Of Whether Their Build Conforms To Your (or Anyone Else's) Idea Of The "expected Norm" For Their Class. If You Quest With Them It Is Easy Enough To Tell If They Are A Good Player Or Not - There Is Absolutely No Need To Interrogate Them Upon Joining The Party And Boot Them If They Don't Have A Buff You Were Looking Forward To.

+1

[phillymiket]

are we still running of the you can't tell me what to do platform?

That's the platform and we're stickin' to it.

[Khurse]

You might want to rethink post any more PSA's.

Nah, the original post was to point out that Haste is NOT a waste of a spell slot compared to your 3rd level DPS spots.



Somehow that transformed into this 25 pages of people fighting about why I want Sorcs to save their 3K+ SP's to cast haste and only haste. (And maybe rage and displacements)

[varusso]

You have the right to kick and to not group with that person...no argument there.

The bolded part that is more of a gray area that while generally being helpful to the community isn't necessarily your right. Well let me say that it might conflict with the caster's rights as well.

Since pretty much by definition, those people would almost certainly be looking for the same thing in a player as you are, yes absolutely. It is up to them, individually, to determine whether or not they want to group with that person. All you are doing is giving them the info that they would find out on their own if they grouped with that person, regardless of the actual WHY of your blacklist. It works the same way as "Hey guys, I got this guy I ran with last night, and he wants in". If you are at all worried about being blacklisted, then it means you yourself see something you are doing as "wrong".

...Thats you in general, BTW, not you specifically, Iron.

[Aashrym]

Nah, the original post was to point out that Haste is NOT a waste of a spell slot compared to your 3rd level DPS spots.



Somehow that transformed into this 25 pages of people fighting about why I want Sorcs to save their 3K+ SP's to cast haste and only haste. (And maybe rage and displacements)

I can't believe some of the over-reactions to it. Seriously, they are good spells, and there aren't better choices later on. doh

[Fire_Godd]

Hm. Pots.