PSA Haste does not waste a valuable spell slot

[grodon9999]

This right here is the mentality that set me off in the first place.

You have ZERO clue what that Sorc was built for unless it's your alt and it could be EXCEPTIONAL at what it was intended to do.

Which is what, not be a team asset? Though this could possibly be the greatest piker ever.

[Missing_Minds]

My turn to nitpick the archmage is 400 SP on a sorc and I would switch it out regardless because I don't like to waste the slot on it. My point is that my buffing burden is usually less then 400 SP and I often cast unneeded stuff just to use it up.

My turn. now Because you keep using archmage as the enchantment name instead of archmagi, I kept thinking you had a wizard. Let alone the inital spellbook comment.

Sadly I'm amused and laughing about these little nit picks. And for some reason I'm finding it oddly refreshing.

The bottom line is though that you could easily fit in Haste without changing your build one iota.

I do have haste, it is rage I don't have. I found it more advantageous to have as besides being a nice buff it also gets rid of slow.

[Missing_Minds]

Which is what, not be a team asset? Though this could possibly be the greatest piker ever.

No, the tone of "I am god, and you shall do whatever I tell you to do."

I thought the greatest piker was Hordo?

[phillymiket]

My turn. now Because you keep using archmage as the enchantment name instead of archmagi, I kept thinking you had a wizard. Let alone the inital spellbook comment.

Touche!

[TheDearLeader]

I like turtles.

[Khurse]

Its the mob mentality rolled up with the "you will play how I want you to play" expectation.

Which is worse than the expectation that no matter how people build their toons they should be let into parties?

Again the OP was referring to a tell suggesting that a Sorc viewed "haste" as a waste of a spot that was better used for another damage spell.
Since there is no spell in the game that will provide as much DPS for an average 18-20 Shroud run as Haste for the SP cost, this was wrong.

I am amused though by the number of people in the thread who seem to be suggesting that people are free to build their toons however they want,with whatever spells they want, yet it's somehow a character flaw if the person running the group wants casters who cast haste/healers who heal.

For the record, yes, you completely have the right to build whatever you want with whatever spells you want.
The party leader (and group) has the right to kick you and blacklist you if you don't carry the spells he/they think you should.

I think if we can all agree on that, we can stop this thread before it hits 25 pages.

[phillymiket]

I like turtles.

You keep coming back to that.

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=4B-K4NGo2HE&NR=1

Do you have a real argument?

[KoboldKiller]

Which is what, not be a team asset? Though this could possibly be the greatest piker ever.

Your absolutely right because being exceptional at say CC would not help the party in ANY way.

I guess what the whole point of this thread is the only way an arcane can help the party is with rage/haste and all other abilities and spells are a total waste.

Seems to me THAT would would be the greatest piker ever.

[varusso]

This right here is the mentality that set me off in the first place.

You have ZERO clue what that Sorc was built for unless it's your alt and it could be EXCEPTIONAL at what it was intended to do.

You can get upset all you like, but it wont change the fact that it IS the general perception. Either accept it and adapt (which means accepting the consequences of building something that is outside the norm, if you refuse to comply to the group desires and expectations) or accept the fact that you will end up soloing or running with static groups of like-minded players.

Fact of the matter is, there *ARE* expectations of every single class in the game. When all you have to go on is a toon's icon, you DO have pre-conceived notions of what they are going to do, based on what is the most common application/role of that class. When a toon is missing one of these expected components, then the rest of the group wonders what else is missing. It doesnt matter what your concept build is or what it is capable of. If you are missing something that was expected, you will be seen as less for it.

"Wow that FVS sure did whip stuff down fast!"
"Yeah but he didnt heal for squat"

"Did you see that rogue tanking?"
"Yeah, just wish he coulda hit the traps on the way"

"That bard was a kick-ass healer!"
"Totally, glad he was there during that one fight. Just dont ever recruit him if you actually want songs"

Everyone of those -- kudos to you for building something outside the norm. You will probably even get filled in THAT role again in the future. But you KNOW that the party was looking for something else when they saw your icon, and you should not get upset when you catch grief over it.

As I have said many times, playing something different is fine, but accept that there are consequences to NOT fulfilling a group's expectations when they added you, based solely on your class, up to and including booting/banning. Because you are not playing what they wanted. This is like applying to an LFM that wants a healer, and you are a fighter, then getting upset because you were declined.

[Missing_Minds]

I think if we can all agree on that, we can stop this thread before it hits 25 pages.

But but... so close...

[varusso]

Your absolutely right because being exceptional at say CC would not help the party in ANY way.

I guess what the whole point of this thread is the only way an arcane can help the party is with rage/haste and all other abilities and spells are a total waste.

Seems to me THAT would would be the greatest piker ever.

You can be exceptional at CC and still have rage/haste. Nothing in the lvl 3 slots is going to improve your CCs at lvl 18 (unless you count a heightened halt undead, used situationally by a necro-specced AM or a PM -- in which case you still have plenty of spell slots besides the one dedicated to that spell), nor is rage/haste in any way going to PREVENT you from being exceptional at CC.

The argument keeps coming back to -- How does rage and haste PREVENT you from doing whatever else you are trying to do? You can do whatever else it is you want to do and still cast red n green, and the group will love you MORE for it. Why diminish the rest of your accomplishments by leaving out such a basic staple of the class?

"Thats a great dinner you made there, honey. Now if only we had had drinks to go with it..."

[KoboldKiller]

I remember you posted your Sorc a while back saying "oh well this is his name, blacklist it if you're on my server and don't like it".

I'm not going to say anything about what I saw when I MyDDOed (curious, and a peeping tom, that I am), but this:

What level is that Sorc bro?

Most people here are talking higher levels... and I seem to recall him being 14 or 15. At that point, yeah, I wouldn't be surprised to see a Rage-less Sorc. Not surprised at all - you're still low on high-level spell slots, and the low-level nukes/cc are still doing you some good.

It's just somewhere around level 18+, *especially* with the PrEs out, that you come to find there is little else worthwhile, at that spell level, that isn't covered by something higher level, probably to greater effect (and same SP cost, assuming you're using Heighten.)

Again, not knocking your build, or what you're doing - just clarifying. That toon is still *a wee bit* below, level-wise, where most of the people here care what's on your spell list, yes?

It is currently a 14, however I have ran 2 casters to cap and am aware of what spells to use. That was NOT my point nor has it been. As I have pointed out earlier what set me off is the mentality that if I CHOOSE to not carry rage (because I never disputed haste) that I am in some way gimped or inferior as a caster. I also don't claim I won't carry rage and very likely will as I have in the past however if I choose not to my guess is my water savant will still be VERY good at casting it's cold based spells and will in no way be gimped or inferior in what it was built for.

[Ironforge_Clan]

So...you're saying someone gets to play their toon however they want and I have to play with them?
I don't have any choice about whom I play with?

That seems...odd.

Did I say you had to play with them?

[Ironforge_Clan]

I wouldn't blacklist for one simple spell.

But that is exactly what Khurse is advocating!

[phillymiket]

"Thats a great dinner you made there, honey. Now if only we had had drinks to go with it..."

[MindCake]

Your absolutely right because being exceptional at say CC would not help the party in ANY way.

I guess what the whole point of this thread is the only way an arcane can help the party is with rage/haste and all other abilities and spells are a total waste.

Seems to me THAT would would be the greatest piker ever.

Seems to me that you didn't read this thread. Or didn't get it.


EDIT: Achievement unlocked: 1st post on page 25!

[grodon9999]

Did I say you had to play with them?

You did, you said you'd be a '****' if you kicked them from a group.

[Khurse]

Did I say you had to play with them?

No,but generally speaking when you say I'd be a **** for kicking and blacklisting them it suggests you don't agree with my decision to kick and/or blacklist them.

If you don't agree that a partyleader has the right to kick/blacklist people who don't carry a spell that the leader wants them to carry, then it would follow that you do think the party leader has to play with the people.

[Ironforge_Clan]

You're not being a jerk for not bringing along people who can't do what's needed in a raid/quest. The jerk is the person who cannot contribute yet expects to be taken along anyway.

Oh and that sorc without rage/haste won't contribute? Highly doubtful.

[Khurse]

Oh and that sorc without rage/haste won't contribute? Highly doubtful.

Not as much as one with the same build and haste.