PSA Haste does not waste a valuable spell slot

[grodon9999]

Sorry Varusso you are wrong here. Another player DOES NOT need to provide you with any reason other than "it is my character" to justify what spells they carry. You come off as appearing you are entitled to an answer that YOU will ACCEPT. Get over it and yourself. If another player doesn't want to carry a spell then so be it. That is the end of the argument. Kill doesn't need to provide any more of a reason than he has especially since you have demonstrated that you are unwilling to accept his responses because they don't fit in with what you expect.

The next response to the "it's my character" nonsense is kick-squelch. if you can't do what's expected of you in a group situation you are not a team player and there's no point in bringing you over somebody who is.

[Cam_Neely]

ha, this thread is still going?

Some people are going to stick to their guns forever, no need to convince everyone.

I can say my Rogue is going to run with a B-Sword and shield, and thats cause its my toon, I can do as I want.
But this does not mean I should come to the forums to says its a good way to contribute to a party.

Just let me know ahead of time that you dont carry/use haste and rage, so I can know who is serious about running the quest and contributing, and who is not.

Its my toon, and therefore my choice, not to carry you though the quest.

[grodon9999]

I can say my Rogue is going to run with a B-Sword and shield, and thats cause its my toon, I can do as I want.
But this does not mean I should come to the forums to says its a good way to contribute to a party.

Exactly - and if you chose to play this way do be shocked if you run out of people willing to run with you.

[Ironforge_Clan]

The next response to the "it's my character" nonsense is kick-squelch. if you can't do what's expected of you in a group situation you are not a team player and there's no point in bringing you over somebody who is.

Correction - you need to recall, drop group, and reform since you won't know until your in the quest.

So by your statement you are admitting that an arcane is basically there to buff you? Sorry not my cup of tea...get a hireling or two box it because a lot of people aren't here to genuflect to you or anyone else for that matter.

[varusso]

Sorry Varusso you are wrong here. Another player DOES NOT need to provide you with any reason other than "it is my character" to justify what spells they carry. You come off as appearing you are entitled to an answer that YOU will ACCEPT. Get over it and yourself. If another player doesn't want to carry a spell then so be it. That is the end of the argument. Kill doesn't need to provide any more of a reason than he has especially since you have demonstrated that you are unwilling to accept his responses because they don't fit in with what you expect.

You need to go back and actually read through this thread. I have given plenty of respect to people who have posted an opinion contrary to mine and have DISCUSSED it reasonably and politely. A response of "ME ME ME DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO!" is a temper tantrum and nothing more. It is NOT a reasoned discussion.

I have also said many times that players are free to make whatever choices they choose on their toons -- but those choices come with consequences when they are counter to what is expected.

The point is not and never was about whether or not players have a right to choose. The question was WHY do you choose this over that. If you dont want to or cant offer anything in support of your position, fine; stop participating in the discussion, because it does not pertain to you. But dont act like these tantrums in any way actually answer the question that was ACTUALLY asked.

[Aashrym]

The "it's my character blah blah blah" is still the only response. Do you all not have any other response? I would think that if one existed you would be all over being able to respond with reasons the other spells are better choices.

I would have to say that simply by the lack of responses being able to support the use of other spells that proves haste and rage are the better spells for those slots.

[Cam_Neely]

Exactly - and if you chose to play this way do be shocked if you run out of people willing to run with you.

oh I will! Then im going to come to the forums and post screen shots of tells from people telling me I cant hold agro and tank Elite ToD!

Im da pznzor 1337

So by your statement you are admitting that an arcane is basically there to buff you? Sorry not my cup of tea...get a hireling or two box it because a lot of people aren't here to genuflect to you or anyone else for that matter.

This is a ridiculous jump. Expecting buffs that contribute (blur, GH, Haste, rage, resists ect) to the party, and use up a fraction of the Blue bar is not calling a caster a Buff Bot. My Bard/Fighter/Rogue can do rogue skills. Is he there just to open locks? SORRY, get a bell of opening, I like to sing songs, buff, disable traps, heal and do DPS

[grodon9999]

Correction - you need to recall, drop group, and reform since you won't know until your in the quest.

I've done it already

So by your statement you are admitting that an arcane is basically there to buff you? Sorry not my cup of tea...get a hireling or two box it because a lot of people aren't here to genuflect to you or anyone else for that matter.

You'd be amazed at how many human "hirelings" you can acquire if you can make them laugh . . .

Not just there to buff me, I don't expect ANYTHING from them except haste. In fact I TR'd friday night, got to level 9 last night . . . and haven't run with a caster the entire time. But there are bare-minimums of team-play I expect from people. I expect all to not be idiots and stay together for the most part (except when it's more efficient to split up, etc . . .) I expect divines to have certain buffs and heal people if they are about to die. I expect "rogues" to be able to get the traps at level, and I expect arcanes to have haste in all situations and other buffs in other situations.

I do not expect the "axer-package" to be cast on every melee at every encounter, but there are some bare-minimum expectations.

[MrWizard]

Hi,
I just wanted to let aspiring Sorcs of levels 18-20 know, that the Spell Haste (Haste). does not indeed take up a spot better used for DPS spells.

I don't want to be rude and point out how annoying it is during a Shroud run when neither Sorc has it, and when questioned, one replies that it is a waste of a Spell slot for a Sorc, so I won't.

I also won't point out how many of your Sorc SP's could -perhaps- be put to better use than you casting Lightning Bolts at the portals. ( I know I know, you threw a polar ray or two as well, I don't want to suggest you're a one trick pony)


Seriously though, 2 Sorcs neither carries Haste. Is this a new thing? is my Haste (and forgive me, extend) carrying Sorc breaking some new optimal design build? Am I missing out on some better than haste level 3 DPS spell?

nor does heroism at lower levels, gh at higher levels...or resist energy at all levels...

[Missing_Minds]

This is a ridiculous jump. Expecting buffs that contribute (blur, GH, Haste, rage, resists ect) to the party, and use up a fraction of the Blue bar is not calling a caster a Buff Bot.

Ok you gets your buffs out of the caster that you have been demanding.

Now what?

In that same vein.. why do you need, I'm sorry, why do you want those buffs? because they.... what exactly? Allow you to hit harder? take less damage? And by killing things fast you can do what? Help the party take less damage? Complete the quest faster?

[Ironforge_Clan]

You need to go back and actually read through this thread. I have given plenty of respect to people who have posted an opinion contrary to mine and have DISCUSSED it reasonably and politely. A response of "ME ME ME DONT TELL ME WHAT TO DO!" is a temper tantrum and nothing more. It is NOT a reasoned discussion.

I have also said many times that players are free to make whatever choices they choose on their toons -- but those choices come with consequences when they are counter to what is expected.

The point is not and never was about whether or not players have a right to choose. The question was WHY do you choose this over that. If you dont want to or cant offer anything in support of your position, fine; stop participating in the discussion, because it does not pertain to you. But dont act like these tantrums in any way actually answer the question that was ACTUALLY asked.

I disagree. If a person answered you that it is there character and they don't want to carry haste but rather some other spell then the question has been answered. They have provided you with a VALID reason as to why! Just because you or others dislike the answer that doesn't give you the right to dismiss it.

You feel that having haste and/or rage is better than any other choice...fine. You will not get any argument from me because I tend to agree with this and I do carry both on my sorc. It doesn't mean that I'm going to cast it especially when I have peoply whining over the mic that they NEED it. Having those buffs are a nice convenience but nothing more. Not having them won't make or break a quest. As for those people that are arguing time and efficiency...this is a game not work.

I'm just mainly playing devil's advocate here and to be honest I find the people who are coming down on the people who don't have haste and/or rage to be more out of line.

[varusso]

Correction - you need to recall, drop group, and reform since you won't know until your in the quest.

So by your statement you are admitting that an arcane is basically there to buff you? Sorry not my cup of tea...get a hireling or two box it because a lot of people aren't here to genuflect to you or anyone else for that matter.

Except the vast majority of arcanes DO carry rage and haste, because they know it is expected. The situation rarely occurs. it almost never occurs in any group *I* am in, since I am usually the arcane in the group.

This does not in any way relegate me to 'buffbot'. Thats ridiculous, and is purely the argument of players who do not have a real clue about the potential of any arcane. An arcane can do all the things they want to do AND still provide the red n green for the group. If you run into one of the morons who thinks that IS all you should be doing -- re-educate them to the realities of the game in the same manner that multi-functional white hat needs to re-educate that same moron on the other roles besides healing.

EDIT:
You posted this while I was typing, so I will just add it on rather than drop yet another post

I disagree. If a person answered you that it is there character and they don't want to carry haste but rather some other spell then the question has been answered. They have provided you with a VALID reason as to why! Just because you or others dislike the answer that doesn't give you the right to dismiss it.

You feel that having haste and/or rage is better than any other choice...fine. You will not get any argument from me because I tend to agree with this and I do carry both on my sorc. It doesn't mean that I'm going to cast it especially when I have peoply whining over the mic that they NEED it. Having those buffs are a nice convenience but nothing more. Not having them won't make or break a quest. As for those people that are arguing time and efficiency...this is a game not work.

I'm just mainly playing devil's advocate here and to be honest I find the people who are coming down on the people who don't have haste and/or rage to be more out of line.

No, actually they have NOT answered the question. My position is that any other choices are made for purely selfish reasons. In a solo environment, this is a moot point, but in a (non-static) group environment, it is very valid. Saying "my choice" does NOT answer the question I asked. It avoids it entirely and looks very much like a child sticking their fingers in their ears and screaming LALALALLAA at the top of their lungs. You didnt just randomly pick your spells "just because they were your choice to make". You made a conscious decision to replace rage and/or haste with something else, for a specific reason, that you though made those other spells better choices. I asked what those reasons are. Its the same question MANY posters have asked, and received the exact same non-answer. And given that this is the only response being given, it forces us to conclude that you dont HAVE an answer you can support, because you know deep down that you made bad choices. Particularly in terms of group benefit vs selfishness.

Flip this around and ask me why I think rage/haste are better choices than (name your spell). If the only answer I can give is "because thats what i wanted" then I did not answer the question of why I think they are BETTER choices. In short, I am NOT answering the question you actually asked.

[grodon9999]

Ok you gets your buffs out of the caster that you have been demanding.

Now what?

In that same vein.. why do you need, I'm sorry, why do you want those buffs? because they.... what exactly? Allow you to hit harder? take less damage? And by killing things fast you can do what? Help the party take less damage? Complete the quest faster?

You make that sound like it's a bad thing.

On my healer I try to keep recitation and holy aura on people as much as possible. better saves means less damage taken means smoother quest. Why would you NOT want that?

[Fejj]

No, actually thats not my position.

You should re-read your posts then, starting on page 1

/on topic
I agree with the OP, but just hate how some people are telling others how to play their characters.

If a character is so gimp they can not play with a sorcerer without haste for ONE quest - they should consider rerolling.

[MindCake]

So by your statement you are admitting that an arcane is basically there to buff you?

If carrying one third level spell makes you unable to CC,Instakill, DPS, DoT (all of the above both single target and AoE), and somehow turns you into a buffbot... then I'm very sorry, but I'd rather play with someone who has more than one button on their keyboard and/or knows how to play. It's for the best.

[Ironforge_Clan]

I've done it already


You'd be amazed at how many human "hirelings" you can acquire if you can make them laugh . . .

Not just there to buff me, I don't expect ANYTHING from them except haste. In fact I TR'd friday night, got to level 9 last night . . . and haven't run with a caster the entire time. But there are bare-minimums of team-play I expect from people. I expect all to not be idiots and stay together for the most part (except when it's more efficient to split up, etc . . .) I expect divines to have certain buffs and heal people if they are about to die. I expect "rogues" to be able to get the traps at level, and I expect arcanes to have haste in all situations and other buffs in other situations.

I do not expect the "axer-package" to be cast on every melee at every encounter, but there are some bare-minimum expectations.

Ah expectations....I prefer not to and then be mildly surprised. I preach self sufficiency everything else is just gravy.

I understand your position and can respect it.

[Ironforge_Clan]

If carrying one third level spell makes you unable to CC,Instakill, DPS, DoT (all of the above both single target and AoE), and somehow turns you into a buffbot... then I'm very sorry, but I'd rather play with someone who has more than one button on their keyboard and/or know how to play. It's for the best.

Best for who?

[Ironforge_Clan]

Except the vast majority of arcanes DO carry rage and haste, because they know it is expected. The situation rarely occurs. it almost never occurs in any group *I* am in, since I am usually the arcane in the group.

This does not in any way relegate me to 'buffbot'. Thats ridiculous, and is purely the argument of players who do not have a real clue about the potential of any arcane. An arcane can do all the things they want to do AND still provide the red n green for the group. If you run into one of the morons who thinks that IS all you should be doing -- re-educate them to the realities of the game in the same manner that multi-functional white hat needs to re-educate that same moron on the other roles besides healing.

Its not my job to re-educate a moron...its my choice to not caste haste or rage I take the same approach on my healers.

I guess the only reason I'm taking the position I am is because throughout your posts you are stating that something is expected by others and therefore an arcane is supposed to comply otherwise he is wrong, a bad player, whatever. This mindset I totally disagree with. Just because something is expected doesn't make it correct. Nothing more or nothing less.

The reality is if a player doesn't carry any spell for any reason it is a personal choice and therefore can not and should not be deemed wrong or bad. You might not agree with the choice but it isn't yours to make.

[grodon9999]

Best for who?

A smoother, faster completion is best for all parties involved. Does anyone dispute this?

[MindCake]

Just because something is expected doesn't make it correct.

But something being correct tends to make it expected.