First Rogue in a years. Want to make sure everythings alright

[Trowa88]

Hope you forumers don't mind me borrowing your expertise ^^

Decided to level up a rogue (my first since EU servers ages ago) so I have more that one capped character as my mains are taking turns tring. Not worried about tome and loot requirements, besides seven fingered gloves not a huge issue.

Just want to know if this Character is viable as a first life.
Halfling isn't up for debate (I only play halflings, wierd I know)

Svaler Operne
Halfling 20 rogue
True Neutral
(32 Points)
Str 14(Base)+6(Item)+2(tome)=22
Dex 18(Base)+5(level)+5(Enhancements)+6(Item)+2(tome)= 36
Con 14(Base)+6(Item)+2(tome)=22
Int 14(Base)+6(Item)+2(tome)+2(Capstone)=24
Wis 8
Cha 8

Yes it is finesse but 22 unbuffed strength is reasonable right?
Wondering if ints too high to start, but I love having plenty of skills (and assassinate works in epic now I hear)

full ranks in Balance, Bluff, Disasble Device, Listen, Move Silently, Open Locks, Search, Spot, Use Magic Device
2 ranks into tumble and hide at level 1 (Hallfings get +2 hide a level 1, want to keep them even) then raising hide 1 per level.
After +2 int tome nommed at 7 taking 1 rank per level into tumble too.

Feat Order also was annoying

Level 1: Toughness
Level 3: Weapon Finesse
Level 6: Two weapon Fighting
Level 9: Improved Two Weapon Fighting
Level 10: Improved Evasion
Level 12: Improved Critical Piercing
Level 13: Opportunist (Not too sure about this but heard good things about it)
Level 15: Power Attack (So late! D= Gonna miss this at low levels anyway to place it earlier?)
Level 16: Crippling Strike
Level 18: Greater Two Weapon Fighting
Level 19: Skill Mastery

Is this ok?

Enhancements

Damage Boost 2 (3)
Haste boost 3 (6)
Skill boost 2 (3)
Deadly Shadows Capstone (2)
Halfling Dexterity 2 (6)
Halfling Cunning 2 (3)
Halfling Guile 2 (3)
Halfling Luck Reflex 2 (3)
Rogue Item Defense 1 (1)
Rogue Subtle Backstabbing 2 (3)
Racial Toughness 2 (3)
Rogue Assassin 3 (8)
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy 4 (10)
Rogue Sneak Attack Accuracy 4 (10)
Improved Hide 2 (3)
Improved Move Silently 2 (3)
Rogue Dexterity 3 (12)

Haven't got time for HP breakdown, late for College now I've done that enhancement breakdown D=
will do when I get back.

So yeah critgue! (And I'm sorry for the wall of text!)

[t0r012]

Skip the finesse and go strength.
Unfourtnately finesse has no place in ddo anymore. Even starting with 18 dex and putting all your levelups in plus any APs you will still end up with more str than dex. Do yourself a favor and don't fight it and go str to start.

Besides dex gets you what a couple points of ac on a toon that can't hope to have even a reasonable ac and a couple points of reflex added to an already crazy high reflex save. The important skills of DD and search are tied to int and OL can be retried over and over again till you get t without fear of failure.

[PolarisNC]

What I'd suggest...

Drop DEX to 16, INT to 12 (lose Listen)
Push STR to 16 + lvlups here

swap Weapon Finesse for Prof: Khopesh (or put power attack at 3, and take Khopesh at 15)

General wisdom is that it's much easier to raise STR than DEX, plus you get damage bonuses.

[BuyTiles]

I'd drop dex to 15, drop int to 12 or 10, and push STR up

Swap weapon finesse for khopesh.

Also you're taking GTWF at 18, I'd grab that as soon as you can (lvl 15?)

There's no need to max OL skill, on my multiclass rogue splashes I put 4 points in and can generally get all the locks in game with an ok item (it takes a few tries, but if you're point starved it works).

No need for listen if your spot is maxxed. Maybe try putting points into diplomacy/bluff (I've not played with these since u9 so not sure how useful they are.

[t0r012]

What I'd suggest...

Drop DEX to 16, INT to 12 (lose Listen)
Push STR to 16 + lvlups here

swap Weapon Finesse for Prof: Khopesh (or put power attack at 3, and take Khopesh at 15)

General wisdom is that it's much easier to raise STR than DEX, plus you get damage bonuses.

I'd suggest holding off on PA the t hit issues are too much on a non full bab class for pa that early IMO. My full str thf acrobat doesn't even use her pa except for the raining dummy at level 12 and I usually run with my +4 souleater.
I would witha twf I would suggest even going with a light offhand weapon to start till you get the IC feat even then a light pick or a short sword might not be a bad idea if you go the rapier route till cap an full gearing. If kopeshes throw a kurki in the off hand IMO.

[Micron]

Halfling isn't up for debate (I only play halflings, wierd I know)

It's not weird, it's a logical choice for people who know what DDO and life in general are really about.

Oh and just to be a pain in the bum and to oppose the masses, I say stick with your build and go finesse, it still makes sense on a pure halfling rogue. Be old school. As long as you don't dump Str, it's all good. 22 unbuffed is okay but consider a +3 exc Str ToD ring, grab a +3 Str tome (over Dex if you can choose) and get some holy disrupters for teh undeadz and WoPs for elementals. On everything else your sneak attack damage alone will be in the 70s and 80s, or you'll just assassinate it straight away; so the 4 or so points of dmg you'll lose due to lower Str will hardly be noticeable. And with your easily reached 36+ unbuffed Dex you'll miss less often.

[Trowa88]

Thanks for the feedback all, seems the games defintly changed since I last played a rogue.

It was to my understanding that spot for was detecting traps ahead of time and listen was for seeing the outlines of stealthed enemies, just thought it might be easier stealthing stuff if I didn't run into everything also hiding. Is this no longer the case?

Not sure how I'd be getting more str than dex with 18 base and level ups aside from....
18(base)+5(level)+5(enhancement)+6(item)+2(tomes)= 36 Dex
14(base)+6(item)+2(tome)+2(rage)+4(double madstone)+6(Titans Grip)=38 Str for 3 mins per rest

But after looking at that... thats a tasty str score hmmm

So if I did go str based, could I get away with still using rapiers? Saves me a feat and I've got TONS of rapiers. I know its not the best but with the changes to auto crit they can't be that different anymore.

So....
Str: 16(Base)+5(level)+6(Item)+1/3(tome) 28/30
Dex: 15(Base)+6(Item)+3/5(Enhancements)+2(Tome) 26/28
Con: 14(Base)+6(Item)+2(Tome) 22
Int: 12(Base)+6(Item)+2(Capstone)+2(Tome) 22
Wis: 8
Cha: 8

Which leaves me with one point, dex int or cha?

Oh and I figured out HP

120 (20 Rogue)
20 (Heroic)
10 (dragonic)
120 (22 Con)
30 (GFL)
20 (Minos/tharaak)
22 (Toughness feat)
20 (Toughness enhancement)

362 before any serious equipment and items is alright right? ^^
Would exceed 400 easily with Shroud hit point item.

Better start farming out some more Divine power clickies ^^

[Micron]

So if I did go str based, could I get away with still using rapiers? Saves me a feat and I've got TONS of rapiers. I know its not the best but with the changes to auto crit they can't be that different anymore.

Nothing wrong with rapiers if you're stocked up on them. If you must go Str and want to use your rapiers, spend the freed up feat on Oversized TWF to lower your to-hit penalty.

[Trowa88]

Nothing wrong with rapiers if you're stocked up on them. If you must go Str and want to use your rapiers, spend the freed up feat on Oversized TWF to lower your to-hit penalty.

Oh good point, forgot about OTWF ^^

[t0r012]

Nothing wrong with rapiers if you're stocked up on them. If you must go Str and want to use your rapiers, spend the freed up feat on Oversized TWF to lower your to-hit penalty.

Agreed on this if you have rapiers use them. You won't be optimal but nothing wrong with rapiers. Good rapiers win vs bad kopeshes in most cases.

If you want finesse , go for it it is your toon. I just suggest you go str as I think you will be happier for it. Finesse might be ok fir leveling but when you start running end game you wish you were str based if my crystal ball is polished righ.

[Ookami007]

What I'd suggest...

Drop DEX to 16, INT to 12 (lose Listen)
Push STR to 16 + lvlups here

swap Weapon Finesse for Prof: Khopesh (or put power attack at 3, and take Khopesh at 15)

General wisdom is that it's much easier to raise STR than DEX, plus you get damage bonuses.

Good advice!

Finese is definately not the best option. While most of our damage comes from sneak attack, we can still do a significant portion of damage from regular attacks.

Along the way, you will find many more items that will boost your STR, than you will that boost your DEX.

As far as Khopesh/Rapier... people are split. Khopeshes WILL do more damage, but rapiers aren't far behind and you could use the feat for something like Hamstring, which will make you more valuable in raids... or Quick Draw which will help you spam your rogue haste faster for burst damage.

Make sure your Rogue Haste and your Subtle Backstabbing are max'ed out. Drop DEX and Halfling enhancements in favor of rogue haste. It adds a ton of dps.

I like your feat selection... people may argue over Skill Mastery v Slippery Mind, but it's really a toss up and Skill Mastery gives you one more point in UMD.

My halfling rogue (Jonndar) is a STR based Khopesh build and he's alot of fun.

[Trowa88]

Was wondering about slippery mind but with a base will save of around 9 wasn't sure if it'd help much.

And people keep talking about items boosting str higher then dex.
Besides titans grip (which is 3 charges of 1 min) and madstone I can't think of any but Bloodrage necklace (Which in my opinion isn't worth it on a non caster -50% attack speed hurts).

How far is it safe to drop dex before it starts hurting reflex?

And is Subtle back stabbing that good? Just wondering because I've never used it before.

[.Revenga.]

You still need 15 dex with a +2 tome to get the 17 dex required for the TWF line, so that's as low as most people go.

And i would advice to max open lock, as some epic locks require a 90dc and there might come a time you want to open them. Although for any other quest maxing it isnt required.

[Jaid314]

Was wondering about slippery mind but with a base will save of around 9 wasn't sure if it'd help much.

And people keep talking about items boosting str higher then dex.
Besides titans grip (which is 3 charges of 1 min) and madstone I can't think of any but Bloodrage necklace (Which in my opinion isn't worth it on a non caster -50% attack speed hurts).

How far is it safe to drop dex before it starts hurting reflex?

And is Subtle back stabbing that good? Just wondering because I've never used it before.

think you're forgetting the rage spell, and (epic) abishai set. also the yugoloth strength potion i seem to recall as not having as bad a drawback as the dex one. could be wrong though.

subtle backstabbing is important on any melee rogue. it helps keep you alive, which is generally a good thing