Putting things up for roll

[TheDjinnFor]

Without getting into the "loot drama" deeply, why would you roll on a +4 int tome? Knowing your tr'ing into a barb? No disrespect intended, but why? Just because?

I'd roll on anything I might reasonably need some time in the future. +4 Int tomes on toon I'm gonna TR in the future, +4 Cha tomes for silver flame pots, etc. If someone doesn't want to pass to me, that's fine with me.

If it were a Strength Tome, on the other hand... well.

[lhidda]

Okay.

Your Loot Your Choice.

Not stating rules that you consider to be obvious doesn't remove the right for you to stick to them because others disagree. Whether or not you get odd looks for doing so depends on whether or not other people generally consider it to be obvious as well.

Saying that you can't have unstated rules in this case means one of two things:
1. You think that all rules have to be stated always (the reductio)
2. You think that your standards for when rules have to be stated are "right" and others are wrong.

As it turns out, neither is true.

Edit: If the unstated obvious rule, you are speaking of is:
"Roll for the item, but if I dislike you, I give the item to someone else". Honestly? Nobody would consider this rule to be the obvious.

If your rule is:
"Roll for the item only if you need it". Then you should accredit the persons ability and maturity to decide self-reliantly if need for an item exists or not.

Could it be, that "the"/your obvious rule is not that obvious that you think it is? I want you to write down "the" obvious rule, so people can satisfy it.

Whining about this topic will only stop if:
The person who give item for roll gets a input mask, where he can decide which person in group is eligible to roll for it, inserts the item, defines dice rules (low roll, high roll, etc..), push start button (at this point item is not in inventory of rollgiver person any more), other persons accept to roll or not, computer start rolls for all, item get in the inventory of roll winner.

[wolflordnexus]

To sum up your rule:
"Roll for the item, but if I dislike you, I give the item to someone else". Honestly? Nobody would consider this rule to be the obvious.

If your rule is:
"Roll for the item only if you need it". Then you should accredit the persons ability and maturity to decide self-reliantly if need for an item exists or not.

Whining about this topic will only stop if:
The person who give item for roll gets a input mask, where he can decide which person in group is eligible to roll for it, inserts the item, defines dice rules (low roll, high roll, etc..), push start button, other persons accept to roll or not, computer start rolls for all, item get in the inventory of roll winner.

1) If I don't like you and I somehow got sucked into running with you I don't care what you roll your not getting it.

2.) I don't accept that any person has the maturity to decide what I do with my loot not you not the guy that rolled If I don't like what your wanting it for it's still mine to decide.

3.) Let them Whine. Doesn't matter to me, and this have to accept rolls from any idiot who can manage to type /roll is nonsense and goes against rule number 1 My Loot is My Loot and I can do any old thing I want with it.

[Cam_Neely]

If your rule is:
"Roll for the item only if you need it". Then you should accredit the persons ability and maturity to decide self-reliantly if need for an item exists or not.

If you play probabilities, then you think that 50% of the population could make the decision better then you, so leaving it up to them is a good choice, with a great then half chance of the 'right' outcome.

Personally, I think I'm smarter then 50% of the player base in DDO, therefore I think I can make a better (or same, correct) choice better then half the time.

I think that 80% of forum goers are smarter then 50% of the player base. Being conservative.


Also, my post might have been lost on the last page, but how often do people really put up +4 tomes for roll. I cant think of one I would ever not want.

[Shadow7375]

Agree with what many have said here ... IMO, OP shouldn't have rolled for it.

Got a funny story myself ...... I was in a VoD run on my wizard and finally the bracers dropped that i am trying so desperately to get. Not in my name though, but they were up for roll. Awesome ...

Two people rolled for it, a fighter and my wizard. He rolled a 12 on a d100, I rolled an 8. Oh what a bummer.

The guy who gave it for up for roll asked the fighter if he really needed it and he said "yes, i need the fire shield clicky" .... ... Well, a roll is a roll and the fighter won it.

I just keep running VoD till it drops in my name ... One day it will

[Iwinbyrollup]

"Roll for the item, but if I dislike you, I give the item to someone else". Honestly? Nobody would consider this rule to be the obvious.

Incorrect. Doubly so, since several people here agree that it shouldn't need to be stated. I also note that I never said a single thing about liking or disliking a person. There really is no way you can conclude what you just did from what I said. So don't make up stuff to try and put words into my mouth.

[lhidda]

If you play probabilities, then you think that 50% of the population could make the decision better then you, so leaving it up to them is a good choice, with a great then half chance of the 'right' outcome.

Personally, I think I'm smarter then 50% of the player base in DDO, therefore I think I can make a better (or same, correct) choice better then half the time.

I think that 80% of forum goers are smarter then 50% of the player base. Being conservative.


Also, my post might have been lost on the last page, but how often do people really put up +4 tomes for roll. I cant think of one I would ever not want.

The majority of all players (just like you) think they are smarter than 50% of player base. Thats human nature. But actually not all of them are.

[lhidda]

Incorrect. Doubly so, since several people here agree that it shouldn't need to be stated. I also note that I never said a single thing about liking or disliking a person. There really is no way you can conclude what you just did from what I said. So don't make up stuff to try and put words into my mouth.

It wasnt about putting you words into the mouth.

You are speaking from obvious unstated rules. I offered you two to choose one, or define your own. I am still waiting for you to write down the unstated rules, so people including me can satisfy em.

Would you please write down the obvious unstated rules? And please, keep it simple and short.

[RangerOne]

Ah, another loot thread.
Another chance to point out that there are no "rules" governing loot, only social conventions which cannot be enforced.

As to the original post, I do agree that stating to roll without the stipulations up front is bad.

But I have no power to enforce that view because there are no rules concerning loot.

[Zerkul]

there are no rules concerning loot.

...
But there's good common sense: some have more, some have less of it.

[TheDearLeader]

might have missed it in the thread but...

who puts +4 tomes, even BTC, up for a roll? I cant think of one character that I would not want this on. Even TRing my Barb, I would love a +4 wis or int tome. Being able to start with 7 and know I will have 11 for silver flame pots would be great.

Actually, if your read a page back from your post, I've pulled 3, and given away 2 of them.

Could any of my classes benefit from them? Yeah sure. Benefit *best*? Nope. And I have this weird idea of helping out the people I play with (meaning server, not guild/clique/whatever).

[TheDjinnFor]

If you play probabilities, then you think that 50% of the population could make the decision better then you, so leaving it up to them is a good choice, with a great then half chance of the 'right' outcome.

Personally, I think I'm smarter then 50% of the player base in DDO, therefore I think I can make a better (or same, correct) choice better then half the time.

This doesn't make any sense. The decision of whether or not the +4 Tome is good for their toon is and can only ever be their choice, because it's not your toon and you know nothing about it.

If you were smarter than 50% of the playerbase, you could decide what was right for your toon better than someone else could decide what was right for their toon. You can't fudge it into you deciding what's right for other peoples toons, because that's two different decisions: one where you have all the necessary information (your own toon) and the other where you can only guess and make assumptions (their toon).

[Terebinthia]

OK. The way I look at it this:

The BTC is still the person's that pulled it up until they assign it to someone else. It's almost impossible to think through the scenarios that may benefit others at the time. People are often very impatient / greedy in raids. I've pulled items that I've wanted to consider benefits of (e.g. epic potential, gear implications) asked for a couple of minutes and IMMEDIATELY had people say "oh, you won't need that" or worse yet start rolling. Given that scenario it's very hard to think through all the unfair scenarios quickly, you just have to rely on common sense.

I'm still irritated with myself by not saying to the Tukaw build who spends all their time in PvP that they weren't going to get the +3 Int tome they rolled on "because they may TR into a wizard". They got it, but on reflection I wish I'd had the balls of the cleric the OP is complaining about and said "no you don't sunshine". Particularly when they beat out a pure wizard for it.

In the end you can hope people will use common sense and need before greed but sometimes it just doesn't happen, and I don't think you can think of all the variables as the loot puller. I'm coming to the conclusion that a dance off is better

Conversely, there are some of my builds that I'd love to have "non-standard" items on. My paladin would love a Torc for example, and it's the main reason I set foot in DQ. I'll surely roll if it's up for open roll, but I wouldn't get bent out of shape if the loot puller decided to limit to divine and arcane casters on reflection. Many items have non standard uses. I adore the Bracers of the Glacier on my completionist and farmed for them before TRing. Tharne's Goggles are useful for practically everyone. The Napkin is great on a caster cleric. About the only thing I can think of that's a really bad idea are the Madstone Boots on a casting class, and that generates drama because noobs see potency on an unusual slot and loot them not realising the hidden effect.

However, I was highly amused at the hate mail I got from a PUG member when I rolled and won Tharne's on my Exploiter ("that's a rogue item, you creep!"). That's.... my ranger with full trapsmithing. Suuuuuure, I couldn't use that. Not a bit! /sarcasm.

Bottom line, the way I see it is that loot is the puller's up until the point they pass it over to the person who finally loots it, and if common sense fails it's at their discretion to fix that.

[Vyrn]

Judgement calls are obsolete if you proper specify your roll before rolling.

Why do I have to though? Its my loot. I pulled it, not you, or anyone else. If I feel like making a judgment call and not giving a +4 int tome for use as extra skill points, while its under my name, I will. I dont really care if the person who won went to the forums and started whining, someone couldve clearly used it better (Hm.. +1 skill point, or +1 DC + some SP... hm... I cant tell, whats better?)

[muffinlad]

Much of this thread should live forever.

Why?

Because it already has. This is the same conversation people have been having about rolling for loot since there was rolling for loot. Shows that not everyone is going to agree with you about loot, and that stating what you want done with your loot is best dealt with up front, so everyone understands what is going to happen.

I have decided to take my hatred of rolling for loot one step farther-

Not only will I no longer allow any of my loot to be rolled for (Dance off baby...dance off), I will no longer roll. I will tell you I need something if you offer it (I would not bug you about it before hand), but if someone else wants it, they can just have it.

It's just loot. There will be more eventually. You don't need it today.

Wrich

[Viisari]

This doesn't make any sense. The decision of whether or not the +4 Tome is good for their toon is and can only ever be their choice, because it's not your toon and you know nothing about it.

The point here is, that even though your barb might get some extra skill points from the tome, the wizard standing right next to you will benefit from it much, much more. The tome is effectively wasted on a barb compared to a wizard.

If I ever happen to pull an +4 int tome and there is only one wizard in the party, I won't be putting it up for a roll, I will simply pass it to the wizard. Rogues are next on the list.

Other tomes are a bit more complicated, but a barb sure wouldn't be first on my list for a +4 charisma tome even if he could get some minor benefits to UMD with it.

As long as something is in the chest with my name on it, it's my loot and I will decide what to do with it. Even if I happened to put something up for a roll and didn't exactly specify *who* could roll, any fighters rolling won't be getting a greenblade or torc from me.

[TheDjinnFor]

The point here is

No, that's not the point at all. We were discussing something completely different.

[Spoprockel]

You may roll on my tome, but only roll if your birthday is not in may, july or december.
If your birthdate devided by your drivers licence number gives an even number roll d613, in case it doesn't roll d316.

If you don't own a drivers licence roll d136. If you got your drivers licence in february roll d163.

Divide the number you roll by the number of windows of your house and subtract the number of doors. Add the number of neighbours you don't like.

The resulting number is your actual die. Subtract 177 from your roll.


If the number of rolls is a prime number the roll closest to -118 wins on a wednesday. If it's not wednesday the number closest to -78 wins.

If not nobody wins.

[Ninety0ne]

Did an epic Demon Queen raid tonight where I won the roll for a +4 int tome. I was playing my warrior that's going to be TRed into a pure barbarian very soon.

In case this thread gets off track lets remember this from the op. Its so bad its amazing. Really take a few to breathe in the fail.

Inbtl